Occupy FlightInfo.com

[The Prussian]

Based on individual incomes, not combined household.

Then to me, these figures don't mean a whole lot.

 

[HalinTexas]

Sorry, but you've been handed the wrong set of "talking points". :laugh:

The current situation is a result of NAFTA and other failed policies crafted by a class of professional Legislators and Lobbyists, on behalf of corporations, and at the expense of hard-working Americans.

Hal, your situation is a prime example of what I am talking about. It's not that you don't want to work, or are lazy, or aren't trying . . . . it's that the jobs are no longer here, but the dividends and bonuses are.

Seems to me, the Tea Party and the Occupy groups are both saying the same thing . . . . they're mad that our political system is broken, our politicians are bought and paid for, and they're fed up.

The press demonized the Tea Party as racists, and the Occupiers as Communists and Anarchists, while the majority are neither.

Some call NAFTA a success: Cato

I disagree with your assessment. Tea Partiers decry the excesses of government, OWS decries Wall Street. I do not believe that either our political or economic system is broken. No one ever said that they would work perfectly and never fail. Democracy allows the failures to be expunged, and capitalism works in cycles. The failures are replaced by the succeeders. The excesses collapse upon themselves to be supplanted by the opportunistic.

 

[Ty Webb]

That article was written in 1998, when NAFTA was beginning its fourth year. Thirteen years further, I think the real results are apparent.

The town I grew up in had five factories that provided good wages. Unfortunately, they have all left the USA, every last one of them. Pretty sad.

I'm very grateful for what I have and what I've been able to accomplish, but many folks haven't been so lucky, and through no fault of their own. I know a lot of them.

 

[Whine Lover]

Wow.

"Class", as defined by Income.

Sad.

"Class", as defined by Social Standards and Material Wealth.

Bad.


IF you are healthy, get happy, and take care of those whom you Love, as well as they might take care of YOU.

That is "Class".

None of this material existence matters. Enjoy the Time you have.


MKR

 

[HalinTexas]

That article was written in 1998, when NAFTA was beginning its fourth year. Thirteen years further, I think the real results are apparent.

The town I grew up in had five factories that provided good wages. Unfortunately, they have all left the USA, every last one of them. Pretty sad.

I'm very grateful for what I have and what I've been able to accomplish, but many folks haven't been so lucky, and through no fault of their own. I know a lot of them.

There's nothing more recent than 2003. However, the FTA with Panama, Colombia and S. Korea were finally passed. That should say something positive about FTAs in general.

Did they go to Canada or Mexico? Since NAFTA, there has been a growth of jobs in Texas. Foreign car manufacturing among them.

 

[HalinTexas]

Wow.

"Class", as defined by Income.

Sad.

"Class", as defined by Social Standards and Material Wealth.

Bad.


IF you are healthy, get happy, and take care of those whom you Love, as well as they might take care of YOU.

That is "Class".

None of this material existence matters. Enjoy the Time you have.


MKR

Point taken. It's all arbitrary anyway.

My point wasn't so much about status as it was about social convention. Had to start somewhere. Middle class for one is upper (or lower) class for another.

 

[Ty Webb]

There's nothing more recent than 2003. However, the FTA with Panama, Colombia and S. Korea were finally passed. That should say something positive about FTAs in general.

Did they go to Canada or Mexico? Since NAFTA, there has been a growth of jobs in Texas. Foreign car manufacturing among them.

Don't forget CAFTA . . . . When Mexico wasn't cheap enough, we went further south.

FTA's are good, but not for the American worker, unless you count being able to buy cheap foreign crap at Wal-mart a "benefit".

Anyway, enough ranting . . . . I'm going to get down off this soapbox before I fall. Best of luck in your search, Hal. Hope 2012 is a good year for All.

Regards,
TW

 

[Jar Jar]

Buying cheap foreign crap would be GREAT so long as everyone here was producing goods/services of a greater value. Unfortunately 20% of our workers arent working, 15% more have jobs that dont utilize their skills adequetly and an additional 15% work for the government which produces near zero benefit to the economy as a whole.

 

[pilotyip]

What is middle class?

The middle class has been completely decimated over the past twenty years, mostly in the name of short-term Quarterly Earnings and executive bonuses.

We always hear this battle cry, the middle class is this; the middle class is that and middle class how is your soul? But no one has ever defined middle class. Is it the middle, mean/median income, net worth, size of house, number of cars, bedrooms, what is middle class? BTW I think I was middle class growing up in Detroit, 5 kids, 800 sq ft house two bedroom house, we had a TV in 1950, we were upper middle class on our block, one car, never ate out unless grandparents came to town.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

OWS is VERY left leaning.

My dumb-@ss step-son, 23, barely got out of high school. He was diagnosed with a learning disability and milked it for all its worth. He got through because he didn't cause trouble. He's had more jobs than I've had my entire life! He's NEVER worked for minimum wage. His fiance' (don't get me started) just moved in with us until she goes to Navy BT in Feb. Her first day of job hunting found 3 jobs. They will take her full or part time. She's probably going to take two of them as part time. Dumb@ss is in truck-driving school. Don't know if he'll pass, but if he does he'll be making $800/wk driving a truck.

I'm 46, unemployed for the 4th time since 04/03/2008, with a college degree (math/science, Liberal Arts) that's useless, have started two businesses with my wife (also unemployed the same date in '08), and we're in debt up to our ears. I can't even get an interview with anyone by a regional. I may be driving a truck, too. Right now, I'm making $8.50 an hour as a UPS Driver Helper for the holidays. My wife (51, ex FA) hopes to start at Home Depot, soon. Her business is off because it's winter, mine is just very, very slow. I've liquidated $40K of my IRA over the last 2 years to help start a business and pay my bills. We're working! BTW, I took UE for 9 months, my wife 6. It paid more than what Compass and Pinnacle were going to pay me to work there. What do you think my incentive was to work for that?

I don't begrudge the Upper Class. I was one of them once. I've generally found that the middle class is over-rated. Those that whine about the "losing" middle class have made bad or unlucky choices, given up and/or are not willing to work very hard. I know I've made some bad choices, and I've been busting my @ss at whatever I can find. I've left the country 3 times for flying work, and am willing to leave again!

I've been an ALPA member since 1994. So far, they've just taken 2% of my wages. Can't see the benefit of being a member of this "class protector." They've done nothing to help me find work. My friends at ATA have done much more to help than just about anything else. My local friends I've made in the last 3 years have done more. I'm blessed.

As evident in Black Friday, Small Biz Saturday, and Cyber Monday, the middle class isn't hurting all that bad. All those goods made by the ever growing Chinese middle class, made some Chinese upper class, also growing, a lot of money. I type on a MacBook, awaiting a call on my iPhone (3g), all made in China, from my UPS contact ready to work.

Use your brains, think critically, don't shy away from hard work and quit whining. No one said life would be easy. Get to work! Network. Don't worry, too much, whether the job beneath you. You'd be surprised how many are doing the same thing!

Almost ready for that truck-driving school.

The OWS movement is a way to mainstream socialism and communism. If you can't see that, then you are destined to it. Let's look at the income disparity in the communist and socialist contries and see how thats working out. China and Venezuela have some of the worst income disparities in the world and some of the worst suffering the world has to offer (other than a Sheria). In this country "deserve" has nothing to do with it, you get what you work for or you starve. I am happy to help those who are willing to help themselves, but I'll be damned if I'll give a penny to those who think they can help themselves to my stuff. This country is about providence, self-reliance, and grace. If you don't agree, there are plenty of other countries you can occupy that agree with you. Sad to see people like Ty are going to occupy my company.

Both of you complain that OWS is 'left leaning'. But honestly, who really cares which way they lean politically? They are CORRECT. Political leanings aside, who cares? Just like who really care which way the Tea Party tips?

You want to fix this country? 1: Corporations are NOT people, and should not have the same rights as people. SCOTUS was wrong. 2: everyone needs to get off the political bias soapbox. Both side have valid points, and compromise is what is needed. Clean out congress (both sides), fix both the legal AND the tax code, and then ENFORCE the laws already on the books.

It would be a start.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[waveflyer]

TyWebb- impressive responses- was going to reply, but most would be redundant

While you guys argue the definitions of income classes- remember as the extremely rich gain more- as the gap between ridiculously wealthy and everyone else grows- the percentages are skewed.

To me, there comes a point- and it is not subjective- somewhere around $10M annually, where your compensation becomes more about your ability to attain money, and stacking leverage and regulation to keep money, than it is about your ability to earn it. We are airline pilots- I know what I have done, how hard I've worked, and how hard I continue to work- when someone makes twice as much in a year as I will make in a career, the problem is leverage, more than work ethic. It is not about punishing success- it's about understanding that once a certain amount of wealth is attained- that class has no need of success for generations- their money will be locked away- not circulated- and at best, taxed at 15%-
I do not begrudge anyone's success - but we have to keep money circulating- and it just isn't as the super wealthy hoard and buy/lobby leverage to keep instead of use their money to build and keep a nation strong

 

[flythere]

It seems there's this mind set, I'm going to start calling it the "instant gratification crowd" This generation wants what is theirs right now!! No more waiting, no more working at a company for 10, 15, 20 or 30 years. I want to start making my full earning potential right now, today! And if I don't like this company, then I want to be able to take what's "MINE" and go somewhere else!

Maybe this generation, since they've grown up all being winners; remember the YMCA, everybody wins, no score kept, everybody gets a trophy, there are no failures. (I think that sets kids up for failure later on in life) No more waiting a week for a package to arrive by mail, it can land via FedEx next day!

No more getting a dictionary out and looking up words or meanings, we simply enter it into our smart phone with instant results!

So no wonder this generation of young adults wants what is perceived to be theirs right now, today!

It's this "instant gratification crowd" that wants this system to change, because they want theirs right now, today!

For those of us old enough to remember Daffy Duck, it was always about him, me me me, mine mine mine, it's alllllll mine!!!!

That's all folks!!!!!

 

[zonejumper]

It seems there's this mind set, I'm going to start calling it the "instant gratification crowd" This generation wants what is theirs right now!! No more waiting, no more working at a company for 10, 15, 20 or 30 years. I want to start making my full earning potential right now, today! And if I don't like this company, then I want to be able to take what's "MINE" and go somewhere else!

Maybe this generation, since they've grown up all being winners; remember the YMCA, everybody wins, no score kept, everybody gets a trophy, there are no failures. (I think that sets kids up for failure later on in life) No more waiting a week for a package to arrive by mail, it can land via FedEx next day!

No more getting a dictionary out and looking up words or meanings, we simply enter it into our smart phone with instant results!

So no wonder this generation of young adults wants what is perceived to be theirs right now, today!

It's this "instant gratification crowd" that wants this system to change, because they want theirs right now, today!

For those of us old enough to remember Daffy Duck, it was always about him, me me me, mine mine mine, it's alllllll mine!!!!

That's all folks!!!!!

Amen! I could have written your post myself. I don't think this generation even knows what libraries or encyclopedias are!

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys (and ladies) are way too young to be so crotchety . . . . :laugh:

Kind of reminds me of the "Grumpy Old Man" on SNL:

http://youtu.be/9N2E93VzQSA

 

[waveflyer]

Fly and zone- I find it funny that you begrudge the young- when older folks have had a better deal at almost every step- from how much you paid for your education to the job you had once you were done-