Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Occupy FlightInfo.com

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

flythere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
481
This is a spin-off of the OWS crowd, it seems some think our pay scales should be tossed out in favor of a more fair and equitable system! How far will this brand of thinking go! Take these two articles for example;


So what's next? Do we limit what airlines can charge for seats? Do we say they can't have these luxery seats and accomadations? Because it's not fair that someone has to sit in a coach seat that only reclines a little, but that rich guy can recline his seat to a bed, watch movies while eating lobster? So what's next Occupy first class??

Gap between first class and coach 'has never been so wide'
By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY
"The gap between first class and coach has never been so wide."
That's from The New York Times, one of two media outlets that ran an in-depth look at the topic during the past week. And while that development isn't exactly a news flash to anyone who has flown in the back of a plane recently, both reports offer an interesting look on how and why that trend is playing out.
AP: No pillows in coach, but it's sundae time up front
THE NEW YORK TIMES: Taking first-class coddling above and beyond
The Associated Press – the other major outlet to report on the topic – writes:
U.S. airlines, profitable again after a disastrous decade, are spending almost $2 billion to upgrade amenities for their highest-paying customers. On the most profitable international routes, high fliers are being treated with pre-flight champagne, flat-screen TVs and seats that turn into beds. Flight attendants greet them by name, hang up jackets and serve meals on china.
Perhaps stating the obvious, AP adds that most of the 3½ million Americans expected to fly during the Thanksgiving holiday "won't get anything close to that treatment."
And AP suggests that may be little surprise given the competitive pressures airlines face in wooing run-of-the-mill coach passengers.
"They've paid a little under $400 (on average) for their round-trip tickets. And it's a cutthroat business. To save $5, passengers are likely to choose another airline," AP says.
USA TODAY: Asian airlines also upgrading premium services
At the other end of the spectrum, carriers are using a raft of amenities and premium-cabin perks to lure big spenders -- fliers who may spend as much as $15,000 for a first-class ticket for flights from the USA to Asia or Australia.
The reason for that effort may be evident, the Times puts it in perspective by writing:
Though first class represents less than 5% of all seats flown on long-haul routes, and business class accounts for 15%, those seats combined to generate 40% to 50% of airlines' revenue, according to Peter Morris, the chief economist at Ascend, an aviation consulting firm.
The upgraded first-class section on a Lufthansa 747-400 as seen at Washington Dulles International Airport on July 19, 2011.
CAPTIONBy Ben MutzabaughAs for U.S. airlines, many have finally begun to make substantial premium-class upgrades after lagging behind their international rivals for the better part of the past decade.
PHOTO GALLERY: Lufthansa upgrades first class on Boeing 747-400s
It's all in an effort to chase the dollars, Morris says to the Times.
"If you don't refurbish your cabins, then all you are left with is the low-yielding traffic," Morris says. "It's just not an option."
But there's at least a sliver of hope for those stuck in the back of the cabin.
"First class has also served as a lab for in-flight amenities that eventually trickled down to the rest of the plane," the Times writes, adding: "Individual screens are now found in the seatbacks in coach. Lie-flat seats have moved to business class."

What about the OWS crowd, they've now resorted to taking over vacated homes to protest the banks who are foreclosing? This theme seems to be right in line with the thought
process of some of those on these boards who want to control and limit pay of americans. They want fair compensation based on their
rights!

Some Occupy protesters squatting in vacant homes
By MANUEL VALDES Associated Press Published: Nov 29, 2011 at 2:47 PM PST Last Updated: Nov 29, 2011 at 4:54 PM PST
SEATTLE (AP) — Occupy Wall Street demonstrators in Seattle, Portland and Oakland have taken up a new tactic in their protests against wealth inequality: Squatting in vacant properties.
In Seattle, protesters have taken over a formerly boarded up duplex across the street from Garfield High School. They have painted the bare wood sidings with green, black and red paint, and they have strung up a banner that says "Occupy Everything - No Banks No Landlords."
The red and black anarchist flag also decorates the front.
"Too many homeless. Too many unoccupied buildings. That doesn't make sense," is the official stance of the duplex occupiers, said Ariel, a demonstrator who declined to give her full name.
Squatting marks a move away from the public demonstrations that have marked protests in cities around the country. The move is an attempt to re-energize the protests in Oakland and Portland — two cities that have seen violent clashes with police.
"Who knows, maybe squatting will be the next pressure point," said 42-year-old Arlo Stone, who has squatted in Portland and Seattle.
After its eviction, the Occupy Portland encampment scattered. Organizers have called for members of the movement to occupy foreclosed properties on behalf of the former owners who lost the houses.
Occupy Portland organizer Andrea Townsend, 28, said providing a safe, warm place for former members of the Occupy Portland movement should be a focus for the city, and said squatting is a way to keep attention on the issue of homelessness.
"You're building a self-sustaining community that's toward what this movement's about," said Townsend, a self-described anarchist.
Occupiers in Oakland have also taken over at least one property and are showing other members how to do more squatting. From "Intro to Squatting" to "Property Law and Squatters' Rights," a recent "teach-in" in Oakland featured six hours of lessons for squatters. The lessons were given by the San Francisco homeless advocacy group called Homes, Not Jails.
In Seattle, the duplex occupants declined to allow The Associated Press inside, saying they want to remain "under the radar" — even after the official Occupy Seattle website posted about their actions.
There are between eight and 15 people staying at the house on any given day, Ariel said. She said volunteers are fixing electric wiring and installing insulation among other work.
Volunteers could be seen taking trash to a truck on a recent afternoon. A rainwater retainer sits in front of the duplex. The group took over the building more than 10 days ago.
The duplex these Occupy Seattle protesters have taken over was owned by a couple who held several properties in the region, including a multimillion waterfront home on Mercer Island that has also been foreclosed. One of them died in 2009. It wasn't immediately clear if the owner had a listed phone number.
The building is located in Seattle's Central District, a historically African-American and working class neighborhood that has seen gentrification over the years.
Still, Ariel said the main reason they chose this house was because it was vacant for several years.
Garfield High School's principal hasn't fielded any complaints about the Occupy house, Seattle Schools spokeswoman Teresa Wippel said.
"He said he has not observed any changes to the school environment as a result of the Occupy Seattle folks being across the street," she said.
Seattle police are aware of the people squatting, but haven't received any phone calls about it, spokesman Mark Jamieson said.
Things weren't as welcoming in Portland.
Police moved in and evicted more than a dozen occupiers in a foreclosed home in northeast Portland more than 10 days ago. Two people were arrested, while the rest left without incident, according to police.
Another three people were evicted from houses on Monday, but Sgt. Pete Simpson said it's unknown whether the squatters were members of the Occupy Portland encampment that was evicted on Nov. 13.
Simpson said he's aware that the movement called for people to occupy foreclosed homes, but said it's difficult to distinguish between the people who would squat in homes as a political statement and those that do it for shelter.
"The vacant property issue is of concern in cities nationwide," Simpson said. "We'll treat them all as trespassers."
____
Associated Press writer Nigel Duara in Portland, Ore., contributed to this report.

Whatever happened to folks going out and earning a living, not being jealous of what they don't have, but working twice as hard to get it?
Whatever happened to folks living within their means, not going into hawk for a huge house, jet-ski's, boats, fancy SUV's or sports cars
or extravegant vacations and junkets, knowing they can't afford it.
 
Non av chat is the place for this-

You can jerk off w/ all your other right wing nuts to your heart's content-
Keep trying to convince yourself youre right- but the gap between the rich and everyone else is growing-as it has for 20 years- and to the detriment of the USA- and only one look at fox news blaming pilots for the AA bankruptcy ought to prove to you who is to blame-
Why don't you remember who you are- a militantly union worker who fiercely protects his entitlement to pay and schedule through seniority alone, not competition and merit.

This is forum is about aviation. Occupy does have something to do w/ airlines however- ask anyone who had their pension's stolen- and how underfunding worker pension's became legal through republican corporatist lobbying.

Stop pretending you're a capitalist dude-you're a corporatist and an apologist for the oligarchy that this country is becoming.
And btw- youre in no position to lecture me or anyone on this forum- you've accomplished no greater feat in your life than any of us- and I seriously doubt your business is more successful than mine or your aviation accomplishments' greater

Again- non Av
 
Non av chat is the place for this-

You can jerk off w/ all your other right wing nuts to your heart's content-
Keep trying to convince yourself youre right- but the gap between the rich and everyone else is growing-as it has for 20 years- and to the detriment of the USA- and only one look at fox news blaming pilots for the AA bankruptcy ought to prove to you who is to blame-
Why don't you remember who you are- a militantly union worker who fiercely protects his entitlement to pay and schedule through seniority alone, not competition and merit.

This is forum is about aviation. Occupy does have something to do w/ airlines however- ask anyone who had their pension's stolen- and how underfunding worker pension's became legal through republican corporatist lobbying.

Stop pretending you're a capitalist dude-you're a corporatist and an apologist for the oligarchy that this country is becoming.
And btw- youre in no position to lecture me or anyone on this forum- you've accomplished no greater feat in your life than any of us- and I seriously doubt your business is more successful than mine or your aviation accomplishments' greater

Again- non Av

I just pressed the like button.
 
Non av chat is the place for this-

You can jerk off w/ all your other right wing nuts to your heart's content-
Keep trying to convince yourself youre right- but the gap between the rich and everyone else is growing-as it has for 20 years- and to the detriment of the USA- and only one look at fox news blaming pilots for the AA bankruptcy ought to prove to you who is to blame-
Why don't you remember who you are- a militantly union worker who fiercely protects his entitlement to pay and schedule through seniority alone, not competition and merit.

This is forum is about aviation. Occupy does have something to do w/ airlines however- ask anyone who had their pension's stolen- and how underfunding worker pension's became legal through republican corporatist lobbying.

Stop pretending you're a capitalist dude-you're a corporatist and an apologist for the oligarchy that this country is becoming.
And btw- youre in no position to lecture me or anyone on this forum- you've accomplished no greater feat in your life than any of us- and I seriously doubt your business is more successful than mine or your aviation accomplishments' greater

Again- non Av


Well,

That's your opinion, just like I have mine! Just like a liberal, when you can't persuade someone with facts or information, you want to silence them or shut them up, in this case move this thread away from here! Well, In my opinion I think this is relevent, you may not like it or agree with it, that's what is so great about this country!

If you think Fox news is to blame, well maybe union leaders getting to greedy just like the corporate fat-cats are! Richard Trumpka, Hoffa, etc etc, I think some of these unions are no better than those wall street types, or the lawmakers in DC. And the big unions are manipulating this whole OWS message to further line their pockets with our dues!

The fact that airlines want to sell plush seats or pods to the highest bidder, good on them! If the market will support it then let it be!

If your local grocier wants to raise prices, that's their choice, you as the consumer have the option to shop elsewhere, that's the beauty of our system. We don't need the govt or anybody else manilulating the market based on what some Princeton Professor or some keynsian deciple thinks is fair!

Maybe some of the bigger airlines need to re-structure to compete the the LCC, that seems to be what the consumer wants, the average shopper will make at least two connections to save a buck, they are willing to put up with cattle car seating to save a buck! Heck the guy in Europe floated the idea of charging to use the bathroom, I say good on him, if people are dumb enough to pay, then oh well!!!

What we don't want is the govt telling airlines they have to offer certain prices, or services or tell them how much to pay their workers, enough is enough!!

Nobody ever mention career success, just the mention of career choices and employer choices.
 
Last edited:
Well,

That's your opinion, just like I have mine! Just like a liberal, when you can't persuade someone with facts or information, you want to silence them or shut them up, in this case move this thread away from here! Well, In my opinion I think this is relevent, you may not like it or agree with it, that's what is so great about this country!

If you think Fox news is to blame, well maybe union leaders getting to greedy just like the corporate fat-cats are! Richard Trumpka, Hoffa, etc etc, I think some of these unions are no better than those wall street types, or the lawmakers in DC. And the big unions are manipulating this whole OWS message to further line their pockets with our dues!

The fact that airlines want to sell plush seats or pods to the highest bidder, good on them! If the market will support it then let it be!

If your local grocier wants to raise prices, that's their choice, you as the consumer have the option to shop elsewhere, that's the beauty of our system. We don't need the govt or anybody else manilulating the market based on what some Princeton Professor or some keynsian deciple thinks is fair!

Maybe some of the bigger airlines need to re-structure to compete the the LCC, that seems to be what the consumer wants, the average shopper will make atleast two connections to save a buck, they are willing to put with cattle car seating to save a buck!

What we don't want is the govt telling airlines they have to offer certain prices, or services or tell them how much to pay their workers, enough is enough!!

Nobody ever mention career success, just the mention of career choices and employer choices.


Spoof.........right? Colbert after a blow to the head and 10 prozac?
 
Last edited:
I'm with Wave.

The middle class has been completely decimated over the past twenty years, mostly in the name of short-term Quarterly Earnings and executive bonuses.

The vast majority of people in this country are willing to work hard, too bad most of the decent jobs have been farmed out to third-world sweatshops.

While I feel very fortunate to have one of the best jobs in America, I only have to look around to see how few people can say the same.
 
I'm with Wave.

The middle class has been completely decimated over the past twenty years, mostly in the name of short-term Quarterly Earnings and executive bonuses.

The vast majority of people in this country are willing to work hard, too bad most of the decent jobs have been farmed out to third-world sweatshops.

While I feel very fortunate to have one of the best jobs in America, I only have to look around to see how few people can say the same.

Like ^^^
 
Ows has never been right or left. If there is one group that composes the majority of its participants it is the "underemployed". The airline analogy works if you compare the ows protestors to angry pax who paid full fare tickets getting bumped over and over and banding together in protest of a system which does not function the way it should.

Try to spin it as liberals, kids, lazy people all you want. The people down there dont claim any of those tags, they simply want reform.
 
Well,

That's your opinion, just like I have mine! Just like a liberal, when you can't persuade someone with facts or information, you want to silence them or shut them up, in this case move this thread away from here! Well, In my opinion I think this is relevent, you may not like it or agree with it, that's what is so great about this country!

If you think Fox news is to blame, well maybe union leaders getting to greedy just like the corporate fat-cats are! Richard Trumpka, Hoffa, etc etc, I think some of these unions are no better than those wall street types, or the lawmakers in DC. And the big unions are manipulating this whole OWS message to further line their pockets with our dues!

The fact that airlines want to sell plush seats or pods to the highest bidder, good on them! If the market will support it then let it be!

If your local grocier wants to raise prices, that's their choice, you as the consumer have the option to shop elsewhere, that's the beauty of our system. We don't need the govt or anybody else manilulating the market based on what some Princeton Professor or some keynsian deciple thinks is fair!

Maybe some of the bigger airlines need to re-structure to compete the the LCC, that seems to be what the consumer wants, the average shopper will make at least two connections to save a buck, they are willing to put up with cattle car seating to save a buck! Heck the guy in Europe floated the idea of charging to use the bathroom, I say good on him, if people are dumb enough to pay, then oh well!!!

What we don't want is the govt telling airlines they have to offer certain prices, or services or tell them how much to pay their workers, enough is enough!!

Nobody ever mention(s) career success, just the mention of career choices and employer choices.

I find it very difficult to respect the opinion of someone who cannot use spellcheck or proper grammar. It weakens your entire argument. Have you not learned anything from Rick Perry? (Hah.) Do you proofread what you type before you press the "submit reply" button?

Regardless of what you say, that USA Today article and OWS have little to do with each other. And as Waveflyer stated quite eloquently, this is a non-aviation topic so it does not belong on this sub-forum. Your bully pulpit is over there. On the right.

SCR
 
OWS is VERY left leaning.

My dumb-@ss step-son, 23, barely got out of high school. He was diagnosed with a learning disability and milked it for all its worth. He got through because he didn't cause trouble. He's had more jobs than I've had my entire life! He's NEVER worked for minimum wage. His fiance' (don't get me started) just moved in with us until she goes to Navy BT in Feb. Her first day of job hunting found 3 jobs. They will take her full or part time. She's probably going to take two of them as part time. Dumb@ss is in truck-driving school. Don't know if he'll pass, but if he does he'll be making $800/wk driving a truck.

I'm 46, unemployed for the 4th time since 04/03/2008, with a college degree (math/science, Liberal Arts) that's useless, have started two businesses with my wife (also unemployed the same date in '08), and we're in debt up to our ears. I can't even get an interview with anyone by a regional. I may be driving a truck, too. Right now, I'm making $8.50 an hour as a UPS Driver Helper for the holidays. My wife (51, ex FA) hopes to start at Home Depot, soon. Her business is off because it's winter, mine is just very, very slow. I've liquidated $40K of my IRA over the last 2 years to help start a business and pay my bills. We're working! BTW, I took UE for 9 months, my wife 6. It paid more than what Compass and Pinnacle were going to pay me to work there. What do you think my incentive was to work for that?

I don't begrudge the Upper Class. I was one of them once. I've generally found that the middle class is over-rated. Those that whine about the "losing" middle class have made bad or unlucky choices, given up and/or are not willing to work very hard. I know I've made some bad choices, and I've been busting my @ss at whatever I can find. I've left the country 3 times for flying work, and am willing to leave again!

I've been an ALPA member since 1994. So far, they've just taken 2% of my wages. Can't see the benefit of being a member of this "class protector." They've done nothing to help me find work. My friends at ATA have done much more to help than just about anything else. My local friends I've made in the last 3 years have done more. I'm blessed.

As evident in Black Friday, Small Biz Saturday, and Cyber Monday, the middle class isn't hurting all that bad. All those goods made by the ever growing Chinese middle class, made some Chinese upper class, also growing, a lot of money. I type on a MacBook, awaiting a call on my iPhone (3g), all made in China, from my UPS contact ready to work.

Use your brains, think critically, don't shy away from hard work and quit whining. No one said life would be easy. Get to work! Network. Don't worry, too much, whether the job beneath you. You'd be surprised how many are doing the same thing!

Almost ready for that truck-driving school.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top