NWA Update

[mynameisjim]

No flame bait here guys, but I don't understand something. Was the NEWCO concept included in the TA that ALPA agreed to, and the membership ratified? If so, shouldn't the MEC (and the pilot group) have seen this coming?

No, the TA was just pay with a few work rule changes. The NEWCO idea is part of the permanent agreement proposal.

 

[Beetle007]

Does anyone know the name of the U.S. Airways regional express executive who is now in charge of creating NEWCO at Northwest? Is this the same executive who helped create Mid Atlantic and its eventual liquidation of assets?

It concerns me that NWA has already expressed its intention to sell NEWCO and now appears to be indirectly (or maybe directly) negotiating its sale with ALPA. It will be impossible to create contract language that prevents its sale while a company is in bankruptcy. I hope the NWA pilots negotiate with the assumption that NEWCO WILL be sold.

discussions this week centered on management's other proposed changes to scope, including its proposals to have the flexibility to wet lease a significant amount of flying, engage in unlimited code-sharing and sell assets without a pilot right to transfer with the asset.

 

[Rossa]

Maybe our red-tail counterparts at mainline could take a look at what is going on at XJ. Last week there was a hearing with the Trustees (part of the chpt 11 situation), ALPA was there and by all accounts had done their homework! Our CEO and CFO were practically shredded when it came to their involvement in financial irregularities (borderline criminal). The general consensus is that we'll take our chances with the judge in court! By the way, there may be a vote of no-confidence in mngt coming soon - something that a judge may not dismiss so easily, given certain mngt activities!
You guys / gals at mainline should take heart at what's happening in the Delta courtroom, and maybe pay a little more attention to what's going on in your own backyard re. XJ. Don't be so ready to give! Do your homework and drag these crooks through their own mud in court!!!!!!

 

[fly4ever]

Rossa,

Just a word of caution -

Don't be in such a hurry to let a judge determine our future. History shows in BK court that the judge will side with corporate when it comes to pay, work rules etc... so that the company may have a chance to survive. Creditors historically do not come out on top and we (XJ pilots and FAs) are on the creditors list.

 

[Going2Baja]

Does anyone know the name of the U.S. Airways regional express executive who is now in charge of creating NEWCO at Northwest? Is this the same executive who helped create Mid Atlantic and its eventual liquidation of assets?

It concerns me that NWA has already expressed its intention to sell NEWCO and now appears to be indirectly (or maybe directly) negotiating its sale with ALPA. It will be impossible to create contract language that prevents its sale while a company is in bankruptcy. I hope the NWA pilots negotiate with the assumption that NEWCO WILL be sold.

Beetle - where did you get your info on the sale of Newco? If this is the case, any chance of recall can be forgot by all. Sounds very similur to the piecing of Pam Am in the 80's! Time to move on and NOT look back!

253611 2/02

 

[320AV8R]

Beetle - where did you get your info on the sale of Newco? If this is the case, any chance of recall can be forgot by all. Sounds very similur to the piecing of Pam Am in the 80's! Time to move on and NOT look back!

253611 2/02

The present NWA CFO is Neil Cohen....he came from USAir, where he started MidAtlantic. He used to work at NWA years ago also.

ALPA and Mgmt are scheduled to continue their NEWCO negotiations this week. The Company wants it to be a spin-off operation, (i.e. Pinnacle, etc). ALPA wants it to be totally in-house, flown by NW pilots. They also want a flow-up agreement with Pinnacle & Mesaba. The whole idea is still being negotiated....it isn't even a reality yet, much less "sold".

SCOPE is the number one issue. If a consenual agreement between ALPA & NWA can't be reached, the Judge will rule. If that ruling includes the outsourcing of all 100 seat flying & below, there's a reeeeeal good chance ALPA will engage in self-help.

320AV8R

 

[TinGoose1]

I'm telling you guys that NEWCO only creates more competition at the regional level. Do you honestly think that the 9E and XJ guys are going to be your friends after you jump back into their back yard? The regionals live of the table scraps right now, and your negotiating a third feeder. Have you guys been beaten so bad that your going to give up your chair at the table and fight for the scraps. Grow a spine folks and tell management to go take a hike.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I'm telling you guys that NEWCO only creates more competition at the regional level. Do you honestly think that the 9E and XJ guys are going to be your friends after you jump back into their back yard? The regionals live of the table scraps right now, and your negotiating a third feeder. Have you guys been beaten so bad that your going to give up your chair at the table and fight for the scraps. Grow a spine folks and tell management to go take a hike.

If we have a unifed list, it doesn't matter who comes in, they will be NWA pilots. I know XJ/PNCL have a lot to lose if this happens, however, it will work out to their benefit. I would hate to think what would happen to you guys if we don't get a unified list. Mesaba is already on the chopping block, even though they are currently working on a contract with another airline.

 

[xjcaptain]

It's amazing to me (no not really...) that now when times are tough at big brother, all we hear abut is a unified list, flow up's (they forget to mention flow backs) etc. Prior to 911 when we were attempting to negotiate a flow through we were looked at like we were the red-headed step child and they basically sneered at us. I hope that NWA doesn't think that our memories are that short. Keep in mind that many of us at XJ are in the 10 - 20 year range on the senority list, so flowing up into another bankrupt airline on the bottom of their senority list may not look all that appealing. What would the advantage be now? Retirement? Compensation? Quality of life? Unless things turn around in a big way at NWA don't be so sure that we even want to be a part of mainlines list.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

It's amazing to me (no not really...) that now when times are tough at big brother, all we hear abut is a unified list, flow up's (they forget to mention flow backs) etc. Prior to 911 when we were attempting to negotiate a flow through we were looked at like we were the red-headed step child and they basically sneered at us. I hope that NWA doesn't think that our memories are that short. Keep in mind that many of us at XJ are in the 10 - 20 year range on the senority list, so flowing up into another bankrupt airline on the bottom of their senority list may not look all that appealing. What would the advantage be now? Retirement? Compensation? Quality of life? Unless things turn around in a big way at NWA don't be so sure that we even want to be a part of mainlines list.

What if someone can bid lower than XJ. Remember that MAIR cash cow you guys got; Paul Foley makes more money than Dougie. I understand that a lot of guys have realized they are career at XJ. You would be even worse off if that flowthrough program was actually instated years ago. You have to unify the list when the thing hits rock bottom. Would it be tolerable if the list was based on DOH for everyone?

 

[320AV8R]

I'm telling you guys that NEWCO only creates more competition at the regional level. Do you honestly think that the 9E and XJ guys are going to be your friends after you jump back into their back yard?
The regionals live of the table scraps right now, and your negotiating a third feeder. Have you guys been beaten so bad that your going to give up your chair at the table and fight for the scraps. Grow a spine folks and tell management to go take a hike.

Yo Goose-

Reread my post.

It's a F#*&! strike issue.

WE DON'T WANT A 3rd or 4th or 5th feeder. We are negotiating for the NEWCO flying to be done by mainline.....and AVROs with 85 seats. If we get our a$$ handed to us........we'll walk. The line in the sand has been drawn.

QUESTIONS ?!!

320AV8R

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Yo Goose-

Reread my post.

It's a F#*&! strike issue.

WE DON'T WANT A 3rd or 4th or 5th feeder. We are negotiating for the NEWCO flying to be done by mainline.....and AVROs with 85 seats. If we get our a$$ handed to us........we'll walk. The line in the sand has been drawn.

QUESTIONS ?!!

320AV8R

What about the 70 seaters that XJ is likely to get, they can't be operating 2 crjs for nothing.

 

[FreezinginMN]

ALPA wants it to be totally in-house, flown by NW pilots. They also want a flow-up agreement with Pinnacle & Mesaba. The whole idea is still being negotiated....it isn't even a reality yet, much less "sold".

SCOPE is the number one issue. If a consenual agreement between ALPA & NWA can't be reached, the Judge will rule. If that ruling includes the outsourcing of all 100 seat flying & below, there's a reeeeeal good chance ALPA will engage in self-help.
320AV8R

320AV8R- I agree with you, but dont forget to incude Champion. They are also part of the flow up proposal. Also, the Judge "can't" rule on a contract. They can only deny the company's request to "reject" the pilot's contract or approve the company's request to "reject" the pilots contract. This would be similar to what is happening with AMFA. The company can impose ANY conditions and the pilots could engage in self-help. The pilots would not have any contract. Of course, laws are subject to interpretation and some people think a judge can stop a strike. I am not one of those people.

 

[AnimalTale]

It's amazing to me (no not really...) that now when times are tough at big brother, all we hear abut is a unified list, flow up's (they forget to mention flow backs) etc. Prior to 911 when we were attempting to negotiate a flow through we were looked at like we were the red-headed step child and they basically sneered at us. I hope that NWA doesn't think that our memories are that short. Keep in mind that many of us at XJ are in the 10 - 20 year range on the senority list, so flowing up into another bankrupt airline on the bottom of their senority list may not look all that appealing. What would the advantage be now? Retirement? Compensation? Quality of life? Unless things turn around in a big way at NWA don't be so sure that we even want to be a part of mainlines list.

Not to start a flame!, but its amazing that you dont realize you have a job and a high seniority number BECAUSE of NWA . Without NWA, Mesaba would be nothing. Mesaba and PCL are Feeders for NWA, thats it.
You should pray to GOD, things go well for your Northwest Brothers.

Again, just an observation....I could be wrong and ill apologize in advance..

Cya

 

[castle bravo]

If we get our a$$ handed to us........we'll walk. The line in the sand has been drawn.



320-
Curious, but how many Red Book guys are in agreement with this?