NWA Update

[320AV8R]

I can see my Engish as a Second Language courses aren't paying off....

320-
...that even by discussing creating a NEWCO your setting a dangerous example for other carriers to follow.

NWA Mgmt told us they were going to outsource 1200+ pilot jobs with this great idea called NEWCO. It would be flown by another entity, with other pilots, while NWA pilots worked at Home Depot. They were going to shove it down our throat. So you are suggesting that we leave it at that; don't even discuss it; and not try to (1) stop the outsourcing, or (2) protect NWA pilot jobs. I thnk I understand.

I believe you said in the same paragraph that you didn't want to start another feeder, but then went on to say that only NWA pilots would fly for NEWCO. How is this not creating another feeder?

Mgmt wants to spin it off, like any other Regional, with a different contract, lower pay, etc... WE WANT to keep it WITHIN THE NWA CONTRACT, have it FLOWN BY NWA PILOTS, for competitive rates. Just like JB is doing with their E190s.....same pilot group, same contract, different aircraft.

Are the NWA pilots who fly for NEWCO going to make NWA wages or are they going to fly for regional pay rates? If your flying for regional pay rates, your a regional airline.

From what I understand, the pay rate will be an average of the top 3 regionals, or something like that. If JB flies the E190 at regional rates, are they a Regional airline too ?

The line in the sand should be that those airplanes be flown on the NWA property, not the NEWCO property. If your drawing the line in the sand for only NWA pilots fly for NEWCO, you've lost the fight already. NWA pilots should only fly NWA airplanes. If NWA wants to buy 70/90/110 seat aircraft, then NWA pilot's should fly them within the NWA system.

I agree. That's what I thought I stated earlier, maybe not. We want the airpanes to be flown by NWA pilots under the NWA pilot contract, with everything inside the NWA system.

Our CFO came from USAir, where he pulled this stunt before....with MidAtlantic. M/A got sold to Republic, and those pilots are facing a very challenging situation. We want to avoid that. We want to keep everything withing the NWA system, like JB & its E-190s.

If we can't agree with Mgmt on this, both sides present their side to the judge on 01/17/06. Then, he can rule one way or the other, or send both sides back for more talks. If he allows unlimted outsourcing, that's when it gets interesting.

320AV8R

 

[320AV8R]

I disagree... DAL is fighting scope AND pay at the same time. AQ fought scope AND pay at the same time. This is about standing up to crooked mgmt and showing that pilots cannot be taken for granted. You mgmt is financially insulated from any problems that arise out of the BK process. You ought to expose that detail in open court and in the press... much the way the DAL pilots expose their mgmt. Further, the paycut would have only been taken "to preserve scope" if the NW pilots received an iron-clad agreement BEFORE taking the cuts, then perhaps I would refrain from judgement. But y'all took the paycuts in hope of a scope agreement with mgmt. In the eyes of most that's giving up any leverage you ever had before you even show up to the bargining table. Now you expect mgmt to play ball because the pilots show a "good faith" effort? Are you kidding me? Have you guys bothered to size up your adversary??? They were selling their insider shares 3-6 months before the BK filing, they set up CH 11 proof pension and parachute schemes BEFORE they filed, they hired the same legal guns that propelled Lorenzo to his ferocious union-busting status. Talk about burying your head in the sand.

WMW-

You bring up some very valid points.

The extention that got voted in was "pitched to the pilot group" as a temporary measure, to allow more time to negotiate with Mgmt regarding NEWCO. It was also to "ease the bleeding", of up to $8m a day. It got approved via MEMRAT. I voted against it.

You are correct....the weasels at the top were selling shares, and using our earlier pay cut to finance their AMFA Jihad. We have been "negotiating" with these nimrods for 2 years about SJ flying.......what's another 2 months going to do ? Nothing. They have an agenda...outsource, outsource, outsource. The only time they lie is when their mouth is open. I believe Mgmt wanted the extention to make sure the XMAS flying wasn't disrupted, (like that matters).

I thought we shoud have "hashed it out" in November....get it over with....see what their true colors are. Yank the band-aid off quickly...not over a 2 month period. I fully expect the same Mgmt stonewalling tactic in 01/06. Then, like you state, we will have lost some leverage, and the only recourse would be to walk.

320AV8R

 

[dbrownie]

IPrior to 911 when we were attempting to negotiate a flow through we were looked at like we were the red-headed step child and they basically sneered at us. I hope that NWA doesn't think that our memories are that short.

xjcaptain:

Not only is your memory short but it is wrong.

When we proposed a flow through YOUR mgt was the one against it!

Not alpa or nwaalpa but XJ mgt. Don't blame us; blame your own mgt wizards.

Dave B

 

[AvroJockey]

xjcaptain:
Don't blame us; blame your own mgt wizards.
Dave B

I wouldn't call them Wizards, more like Geppetto's Toys. (NW Managment Puppets)

 

[xjcaptain]

Not to start a flame!, but its amazing that you dont realize you have a job and a high seniority number BECAUSE of NWA . Without NWA, Mesaba would be nothing. Mesaba and PCL are Feeders for NWA, thats it.
You should pray to GOD, things go well for your Northwest Brothers.

Again, just an observation....I could be wrong and ill apologize in advance..

Cya

Maybe you're missing something also. Currently we do fly for NWA, however that could most certainly change. Last time I checked XJ has been around since 1944. If we don't fly for NWA I'm guessing we could just as easily fly for somebody else...or heaven forbid ourselves. So saying that XJ is nothing with out NWA seems to be a bit narrow sighted. Now I certainly do hope things go well with NWA, but based on what the NWA group was willing to do for us in the past, how much should I be willing to give up for them?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Maybe you're missing something also. Currently we do fly for NWA, however that could most certainly change. Last time I checked XJ has been around since 1944. If we don't fly for NWA I'm guessing we could just as easily fly for somebody else...or heaven forbid ourselves. So saying that XJ is nothing with out NWA seems to be a bit narrow sighted. Now I certainly do hope things go well with NWA, but based on what the NWA group was willing to do for us in the past, how much should I be willing to give up for them?

Exactly, XJ will be flying for someone else and NWA, in fact I think the new deal is expected out in the next few days. If you are going to fly an airplane with 70 seats or higher in NWA colors, you better be an NWA pilot. I think Mesaba pilots should be given the choice though. Remain as a Mesaba pilot and work as a regional for say some other legacy, or you can join as an NWA pilot and fly for Mesaba in bigger aircraft. You guys seem divided, and that probably the best way to solve that problem. Although, if that were to happen probably everyone at XJ will go for the Northwest deal except some people who could not take the pay hit.

 

[AnimalTale]

Maybe you're missing something also. Currently we do fly for NWA, however that could most certainly change. Last time I checked XJ has been around since 1944. If we don't fly for NWA I'm guessing we could just as easily fly for somebody else...or heaven forbid ourselves. So saying that XJ is nothing with out NWA seems to be a bit narrow sighted. Now I certainly do hope things go well with NWA, but based on what the NWA group was willing to do for us in the past, how much should I be willing to give up for them?

Just an observation (im not part of the redtale family either), Unless your 65 years old then you owe all your seniority, benefits and lifestyle to mainline NWA. They have been your customer for a long time.

And Nwa owes Mesaba a lot (I think NWA SCREWED Mesaba). Mesaba has always been a quality carrier for NWA. And true, the senior pilots at NWA only give a rats a$$ about themselves and their widebody flying and pensions. Look at their pathetic pay and looks like pensions will be gone along with their scope.

I always said, "UNIONS should back each other up", "pilot groups should be cohesive no matter what the seniority of the pilot"."Management should not have any golden parachutes".

Our industry is falling apart because we dont have the B@lls to back each other up and sacrafice for each other.

I hope something changes. And this one list, is not going to solve anything. Being part of the LARGEST AIRLINE UNION, ALPO, should have solved all the whipsawing tactics and degradation of flying. Instead, Worthless freezes his pay and pension to secure his own pathetic future. Shame on him!

Cya