NWA SCABS at Best Western

[psycho]

According to local press reports, SCABS hoping to replace NWA Mechs are at the Best Western on Wickham road in Romulus. Only a fool would think a contract is sacred, so do not disturb the sleep of these heroes. Please no honking horns or car alarms.

 

[slider]

NWA Mech's

Psycho,
Could you (or someone reading this post) give a little background, what exacty is going on with the mech's at NWA anyway?

 

[IndyGTP]

Nwa

Haven't you heard or read the news? Northwest Airlines was asking for 26% pay cut and over 2,000 jobs to be gone...

The NWA mechanics were released from negotiations and are on a count down for a strike. Northwest is preparing for this by recruiting scabs and management. Supposedly they have over 1,000 people in line to replace NWA mechanic job's. BS! I hope the American public, and pilots included, realize that the aircraft they will be flying on won't be safe. I know I won't let anyone in my family fly on them when the strike goes into effect.

I hope NWA burns. The mechanics at NWA are the only legacy carrier left that has stood up and said no to management's request. It's about time a group has stood up to say enough is enough. I know I would never vote my union brother's job away. If I were in the mechanic's shoes I would offer a temporary pay reduction with NO JOBS to be lost. I'll take a pay cut before voting jobs away.

I did the math on this... If NWA wants $130 million in savings from the mechanics all they would have to do is raise a fare by $3. They want $1 billion total savings in labor; why not raise the fares by $18? silly management

 

[V-STALL]

Psycho,
Could you (or someone reading this post) give a little background, what exacty is going on with the mech's at NWA anyway?

Interesting video. Wait for the commercial to end.

http://kstp.dayport.com/viewer/view...p?Art_ID=161901

 

[erj-145mech]

I hope NWA burns. The mechanics at NWA are the only legacy carrier left that has stood up and said no to management's request. It's about time a group has stood up to say enough is enough. I know I would never vote my union brother's job away. If I were in the mechanic's shoes I would offer a temporary pay reduction with NO JOBS to be lost. I'll take a pay cut before voting jobs away.

Do you work for NWA? Do you have a dog in this fight? You've said two different things in your statement, you'd vote for a pay cut and not to lose any jobs. The vote is for both. There is no option for a temporary pay cut. There is no option for a pay cut to save jobs. The only vote option is for a 26% pay cut and lose jobs. The way things are going, as of right now, there isn't going to be a vote. AMFA doesn't have the resources to endure a long tenure strike.

If the airplane isn't airworthy, in the Captains opinion, he won't accept it. The Captain won't put anyones life in jeopardy because of a maintenance issue. Are you implying that an airplane has to be maintained by union mechanics to be safe to fly in? Jet Blue is taking their aircraft to Honduras for work. The technicians in Honduras aren't unionized. Are Jet Blues aircraft unsafe? United is taking their aircarft to South Korea for heavy checks, are their aircraft unsafe?

NWA management has read the Frank Lorenzo book "Dummies for Eastern Airlines Management".

If you're this militant about an issue that doesn't concern you, then the only thing that I can see that you can do about this is to tie a diaper on your head, strap on a belt load of C-4, and run into the lobby of the hotel and meet Allah.

 

[bocefus]

Honduras? Try next door in Nicaragua. But, point taken

 

[justApilot]

It's only a matter of time before the south of the border mx becomes an issue. I can't believe the FAA is onboard with that program.

 

[bocefus]

Are you suggesting that "south of the border" FAA certificated repair stations are somehow less qualified than domestic FAA certificated repair stations?

 

[ultrarunner]

Haven't you heard or read the news? Northwest Airlines was asking for 26% pay cut and over 2,000 jobs to be gone...

Am I missing something here. Does the mechanics CBA require a minimum staffing level, in that management needs permission to lay off these folks?

Why wouldn't management just start wacking mechanics right now? They obviously feel they are 2000 fat.

 

[justApilot]

Are you suggesting that "south of the border" FAA certificated repair stations are somehow less qualified than domestic FAA certificated repair stations?

YES I AM!

 

[bocefus]

Ok, care to share some of your personal experiences with said inferior maintenance?

 

[USMCmech]

It's only a matter of time before the south of the border mx becomes an issue. I can't believe the FAA is onboard with that program.

Because we all know that people in South America are incapaable of performing quailty work on anything technical.

It's not like half the regional jets are built in Brazil or anything.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Are you suggesting that "south of the border" FAA certificated repair stations are somehow less qualified than domestic FAA certificated repair stations?

Under the FWIW category ... the pilots at UPS have unilaterally removed NWA from its "approved carrier list" ... thereby halting all booking of transportation on NWA for the duration of the mechanics' strike. YES, ABSOLUTELY we believe NWA will be less safe to travel on with poorly trained replacement (SCAB) mechanics turning wrenches for them.

Good luck to all the hard-working mechanics at NWA!

Regards,

BBB

 

[bocefus]

Well, Mr belly, I'm afraid you are clueless as to the discussion. BTW, UPS does outsource maintenance to foreign repair stations also.

 

[CRJ's suck]

Do people realize that the majority of people at outsourced MX facilties do not have any formal aircraft maintenance training? Anyone can get hired off the street and work on these aircraft.

If you want things done right and safetly, you need a certificated mechanic working on your aircraft.

Are the airlines going to start outsourcing their pilots and F/A's to some overseas, untrained, cheap labor? I'd like to see what the public would say if the airlines tried this. I'm sure the public uproar would be deafining

 

[erj-145mech]

After seeing some of the bone head things that I've seen US certificated mechanics try to get bought off, I'd rather see a foreign national do the work if its right. I've personaly witnessed a licenced mechanic glue a screw into a horizontal stab leading edge (RII at this carrier) with RTV, because he knocked the floater out of the channel on the gang strip and didn't feel like taking the leading edge back off to fix his screw up. It still takes a certificated mechanic to sign it off. When there are a lot of maintenance issues and cancelled flights due to poor maintenance proceedures, the companies will insist that some thing gets done. After living and working overseas, the foreign nationals take much better pride in their work than most US mechanics crying over being "underpaid".

John Q Public doesn't care that the person who worked on the plane doesn't have an FAA licence, he doesn't care that the first officer is on food stamps to feed his family, he just wants the cheapest ticket possible to go on vacation with Mrs Public and the little republicans.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Do people realize that the majority of people at outsourced MX facilties do not have any formal aircraft maintenance training? Anyone can get hired off the street and work on these aircraft.

If you want things done right and safetly, you need a certificated mechanic working on your aircraft.

Are the airlines going to start outsourcing their pilots and F/A's to some overseas, untrained, cheap labor? I'd like to see what the public would say if the airlines tried this. I'm sure the public uproar would be deafining

NWA is already trying to "outsource" FA's (besides Mech's). The replacement flight attendants wont actually become NWA employees until they actually get called out to the airport on their first trip. They will be sitting in hotels on Aug 19 on NWA's dime just in case PFAA orchestrates a sympathy strike with AMFA. On a side note, these scab flight attendants were trained at NWA's main facilities. To complete their flight attendant cert. they had to show competency on the actual aircraft in flight with a flight attendant manager. The PFAA flight attendants were sometimes made to assist these scabs by the FA manager or face disiplinary actions. Hows that for "good faith" bargaining? Training your own replacements.

 

[goaliemn]

On a side note, these scab flight attendants were trained at NWA's main facilities. To complete their flight attendant cert. they had to show competency on the actual aircraft in flight with a flight attendant manager. The PFAA flight attendants were sometimes made to assist these scabs by the FA manager or face disiplinary actions. Hows that for "good faith" bargaining? Training your own replacements.

I've had to do that in the computer industry. It happens everywhere. My job was being outsourced, and lo and behold, I had to go out to Baltimore for acouple of weeks to show them my job.

It sucks, but it happens everywhere, not just in union shops and not just in aviation.

 

[KigAir]

I've had to do that in the computer industry. It happens everywhere. My job was being outsourced, and lo and behold, I had to go out to Baltimore for acouple of weeks to show them my job.

It sucks, but it happens everywhere, not just in union shops and not just in aviation.

Why bother going? What would they have done, fire you?

 

[IndyGTP]

Do you work for NWA? Do you have a dog in this fight? You've said two different things in your statement, you'd vote for a pay cut and not to lose any jobs. The vote is for both. There is no option for a temporary pay cut. There is no option for a pay cut to save jobs. The only vote option is for a 26% pay cut and lose jobs. The way things are going, as of right now, there isn't going to be a vote. AMFA doesn't have the resources to endure a long tenure strike.

If the airplane isn't airworthy, in the Captains opinion, he won't accept it. The Captain won't put anyones life in jeopardy because of a maintenance issue. Are you implying that an airplane has to be maintained by union mechanics to be safe to fly in? Jet Blue is taking their aircraft to Honduras for work. The technicians in Honduras aren't unionized. Are Jet Blues aircraft unsafe? United is taking their aircarft to South Korea for heavy checks, are their aircraft unsafe?

NWA management has read the Frank Lorenzo book "Dummies for Eastern Airlines Management".

If you're this militant about an issue that doesn't concern you, then the only thing that I can see that you can do about this is to tie a diaper on your head, strap on a belt load of C-4, and run into the lobby of the hotel and meet Allah.

I realize temporary pay cuts are not an option. And for your info I do not work for a union airline. Hell, I probably work for your sister co. if you work for CHQ. I am in fact pro-union. Unions at the majors are what sets the scale for all the different portions in aviation (corporate, regional, GA). Plus with unions you are guranteed benefits & pay raises. I've seen it where management favorite's get the raises and the hard working not-so-much liked get fired.

For what it's worth if you support third party maintenance, you are in all essence a SCAB! Try posting on another board that's all about mechanic unions... You will get ate alive.

Thanks for contributing to a dying industry, SCAB.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Do you work for NWA? Do you have a dog in this fight? You've said two different things in your statement, you'd vote for a pay cut and not to lose any jobs. The vote is for both. There is no option for a temporary pay cut. There is no option for a pay cut to save jobs. The only vote option is for a 26% pay cut and lose jobs. The way things are going, as of right now, there isn't going to be a vote. AMFA doesn't have the resources to endure a long tenure strike.

If the airplane isn't airworthy, in the Captains opinion, he won't accept it. The Captain won't put anyones life in jeopardy because of a maintenance issue. Are you implying that an airplane has to be maintained by union mechanics to be safe to fly in? Jet Blue is taking their aircraft to Honduras for work. The technicians in Honduras aren't unionized. Are Jet Blues aircraft unsafe? United is taking their aircarft to South Korea for heavy checks, are their aircraft unsafe?

NWA management has read the Frank Lorenzo book "Dummies for Eastern Airlines Management".

If you're this militant about an issue that doesn't concern you, then the only thing that I can see that you can do about this is to tie a diaper on your head, strap on a belt load of C-4, and run into the lobby of the hotel and meet Allah.

I do have a dog in this fight, do you? You suggest there is one option, are you management? That is what the point of negotiations is, MORE OPTIONS! Your like "look, its either 50% go and pay cuts for the rest or thats it". Nice try, what does your dad wear a suit and work in Eagan?

 

[erj-145mech]

I realize temporary pay cuts are not an option. And for your info I do not work for a union airline. Hell, I probably work for your sister co. if you work for CHQ. I am in fact pro-union. Unions at the majors are what sets the scale for all the different portions in aviation (corporate, regional, GA). Plus with unions you are guranteed benefits & pay raises. I've seen it where management favorite's get the raises and the hard working not-so-much liked get fired.

For what it's worth if you support third party maintenance, you are in all essence a SCAB! Try posting on another board that's all about mechanic unions... You will get ate alive.

Thanks for contributing to a dying industry, SCAB.

Whats with the personal attack? You snot nosed little fukc. I'm not a scab, and if you're not a union guy, then you're taking the job of a union guy. I don't work for a commuter airline. The only good that a union really does on a daily basis is keeping a poor mechanic from getting fired for doing a crappy job. I used to work in a union shop, and saw this on a weekly basis. I saw a mechanic glue a leading edge screw into a hole because he punched the nutplate out and didn't want to take the leading edge back off to fix it properly. And this was an RII item at this carrier. I'm glad that the inspector caught the RTV around the screw head.

According to the ATA, most legacy carriers have as much as 65% of all maintenance outsourced by foreign and non union labor. I would venture that most of those guys don't have any type of certificate or formal training either.

I've got 27 years in general aviation, 9 years of running a shop, and unions, airlines don't have anything to do with pay rates or benefits in GA.

Now you can grab your fudgecycle and go watch some more Daffy Duck cartoons, because you sure as he77 don't have a clue of what really happens on a shop floor.

 

[erj-145mech]

I do have a dog in this fight, do you? You suggest there is one option, are you management? That is what the point of negotiations is, MORE OPTIONS! Your like "look, its either 50% go and pay cuts for the rest or thats it". Nice try, what does your dad wear a suit and work in Eagan?

If you're not a member of AMFA, you don't have a dog in this fight. NWA ALPA will not support the mechanics in this case.

With a Republican administration (pro business, anti labor) in the White House, all that NWA has to do is declare bankruptcy and disolve the contract anyway. UAL set the precedent.

 

[IndyGTP]

John Q Public doesn't care that the person who worked on the plane doesn't have an FAA licence, he doesn't care that the first officer is on food stamps to feed his family, he just wants the cheapest ticket possible to go on vacation with Mrs Public and the little republicans.

I agree, and the flying public will not care until we have a couple of lawn darts.

If you're this militant about an issue that doesn't concern you, then the only thing that I can see that you can do about this is to tie a diaper on your head, strap on a belt load of C-4, and run into the lobby of the hotel and meet Allah.

You attacked me first so don't act like your Mr. Innocent.

Now you can grab your fudgecycle and go watch some more Daffy Duck cartoons, because you sure as he77 don't have a clue of what really happens on a shop floor.

Whatever man...

 

[CRJ's suck]

Originally Posted by erj-145mech
I don't work for a commuter airline.

Is the 145 also used as a corporate aircraft?

 

[IndyGTP]

Embraer 145?

I'm not for certain but I think an Embraer Legacy is a corporate product of the 135/145's.

 

[Crizz]

I'm not for certain but I think an Embraer Legacy is a corporate product of the 135/145's.

Oh boy lets not get started on that darn Legacy again.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

afrade not, the south american repair stations are kicking butt, and if you think cheap labor isn't avaiable here, go to any place in north america flying radial engines, there is usally one IA and a bunch of domicans.

And they are damn good workers.

 

[dually]

afrade not, the south american repair stations are kicking butt, and if you think cheap labor isn't avaiable here, go to any place in north america flying radial engines, there is usally one IA and a bunch of domicans.

And they are dang good workers

For a good perspective on out source maintenance and language/supervision problems read " Inside the Sky"
by William Langewiesche.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

IPA pilots support AMFA strike

UPS pilots refuse to haul Northwest Airlines struck goods
Tuesday August 16, 2:01 pm ET

The Independent Pilots Association, the Louisville-based union that represents United Parcel Service Inc. pilots, has told UPS that they will not fly Northwest Airlines struck goods.

The association informed UPS of its position in anticipation of a possible strike by the mechanics at Northwest, which could occur as early as this Friday, according to a news release.

"The Independent Pilots Association is strongly committed to the principle of solidarity with our fellow transportation industry workers," said Capt. Tom Nicholson, president of the association, in the release. "As such, we will refuse to fly any struck goods should a strike or lock-out occur at Northwest Airlines involving their airline mechanics.

Northwest Airlines "has an extensive cargo operation and is now actively in the market attempting to line up aircraft and carriers to provide airlift to dodge the effects of a strike. ... UPS pilots have the contractual right to refuse to move airplanes containing struck goods. We will simply set the parking brakes on any UPS plane containing (Northwest Airlines) struck goods."

Because of the labor dispute at Northwest, Independent Pilots Association crewmembers have refused to be transported on Northwest Airlines since Aug. 5, the release said. As a result, UPS has rescheduled its pilots to other commercial carriers.

Atlanta-based UPS (NYSE: UPS - News) employs more than 17,000 people in Louisville. Its Worldport facility, located at Louisville International Airport, is the company's largest air transportation hub.

Published August 16, 2005 by Business First