NWA Retirements

[FBN0223]

NWA had over 200 pilot retirements for the month of October. Does anyone have any data on how many retired on the Delta side for October? Thanks in advance. FBN

 

[MCDU]

Single digit

M

 

[General Lee]

That's pretty good, and they all got their frozen pensions. But I do have a question, are their names still on NWA's seniority list?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[clippyrip]

Single digit

M

ZERO is a single digit.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It was three, it my seniority number was correct.

 

[crj567]

That's pretty good, and they all got their frozen pensions. But I do have a question, are their names still on NWA's seniority list?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Yep-

Most retired people remain on seniority lists, Gen....

-MORON!

 

[~~~^~~~]

So the number of early outs is ~200?

I had heard every number between 40 and 400.

 

[michael707767]

Yep-

Most retired people remain on seniority lists, Gen....

not at DAL. List updated every month.

 

[xray678]

Yep-

Most retired people remain on seniority lists, Gen....

-MORON!

So, every pilot who ever retired from DAL or NWA is still on the list?

And who is the moron?

 

[The General]

oooo. no he didn't...

 

[~~~^~~~]

.... disregard

 

[Scope out RJ's]

ZERO is a single digit.

I didn't know you could count that high.
It is a PILOT seniority list though, not a PFE list!:laugh:

 

[Fly4hire]

That's pretty good, and they all got their frozen pensions. But I do have a question, are their names still on NWA's seniority list?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think the date both sides used for the Certified Seniority List was some time in July. Pilots from either side who retired since then would not be removed.

Of course we could probably make adjustments - it would be Dynamic in nature on both sides though.

Maybe we could factor in future attrition while we are at it - you are certainly trying to do that for aircraft. Lots of double standards with you guys......

 

[crj567]

So, every pilot who ever retired from DAL or NWA is still on the list?

And who is the moron?

If you didn't pick up on the sarcasm here, you have some 'splainin to do.....

-Just Damn.

 

[General Lee]

Yep-

Most retired people remain on seniority lists, Gen....

-MORON!

Moron? At NWA they do. Our lawyer for the Seniority list arbitration found over 100 names of people who already retired, still on their current list. Now, who is the Moron? You are.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think the date both sides used for the Certified Seniority List was some time in July. Pilots from either side who retired since then would not be removed.

Of course we could probably make adjustments - it would be Dynamic in nature on both sides though.

Maybe we could factor in future attrition while we are at it - you are certainly trying to do that for aircraft. Lots of double standards with you guys......

There were people on there that had retired a year ago. You were looking for more slots, and were caught.

And future attrition? We both have it, but you want credit for near term, and not look at our long term, which has MORE retirements total. We have 4 years in a row that have over 500 leaving in one year. But, you knew that......talk about a double standard...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[number11]

There were people on there that had retired a year ago. You were looking for more slots, and were caught.

And future attrition? We both have it, but you want credit for near term, and not look at our long term, which has MORE retirements total. We have 4 years in a row that have over 500 leaving in one year. But, you knew that......talk about a double standard...


Bye Bye--General Lee

01! Hey your prediction still 7-5 ratio with the bottum 3-400 NWA!

 

[clippyrip]

I didn't know you could count that high.

There is a lot you don't know.

 

[Superpilot92]

So the number of early outs is ~200?

I had heard every number between 40 and 400.

He didnt say total and he didnt say it was early outs or PERPS. Pay attention, try and keep up

 

[Truckdriver]

01! Hey your prediction still 7-5 ratio with the bottum 3-400 NWA!

Just read the closing arguments of both sides. I kinda think it's gonna swing closer to the DAL proposal than either of the proposals that NWA submitted. We'll know in about two weeks I guess.

 

[filejw]

That's pretty good, and they all got their frozen pensions. But I do have a question, are their names still on NWA's seniority list?

Bye Bye--General Lee

NWA list update twice a year.

 

[FBN0223]

It was three, it my seniority number was correct.

THAT"S IT? THREE? And you want fractions, percentages, ratios or whatever formula keeps your 2007 hires flying wide-bodys? Three. Now if we were talking three hundred, then we could talk about thowin' you boys a bone but three!!!

 

[General Lee]

NWA list update twice a year.

There were guys on there that were retired for almost a year. An example is your number 7 pilot, who retired on Jan 1st. If it is twice a year, hasn't there been a new list since Jan 1st? Here is the transcript from the 11-15 hearing:

A. Sure. DuXX is number 7 and he has
20 supposedly retired on January 1st. He's still
21 on their seniority list


What is up with that?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

01! Hey your prediction still 7-5 ratio with the bottum 3-400 NWA!

That's probably it. Here's a snipit from our closing arguments:

Regarding the existence of excess NWA pilot positions that have been and
will be created by the disposition of NWA’s DC-9s, B-757s, A319s, and B747-200
freighters – and furloughs that would have resulted at a standalone NWA:
• Robert Mann presented an analysis demonstrating that the known aircraft
dispositions at NWA would result in a minimum of 400 excess pilot
positions and a maximum of 576 excess pilot positions by the end of 2009.
And, depending on the pace DC-9 and B-747-200 freighter dispositions
after 2008, a pool of excess NWA pilots continuing through 2011 that
would range from about 100 on the low end up to 500 on the high end.
T.439-469; DX-35(corrected) at 3-4.
• Captain Rich Harwood presented an analysis demonstrating how NWA’s
pilot requirements for 2009 would decline on a standalone basis versus
2008 from 4300 to 3784 (a loss of 516). T. 2727-33; DRX-23 at 21-29.
• An email from NWA’s Robert Brodin, SVP Labor Relations, dated June
19, 2008, demonstrated that NWA management notified the NWA MEC
that there would be a furlough of between 250 and 300 NWA pilots due to
its fleet cutbacks in May 2008. DRX-26. As explained in our Pre-
Hearing Statement at 19-20, and in the testimony of Captain Tim
O’Malley, T.530, these furloughs were forestalled by NWA’s negotiation
of the “Layoff Protection Package” with the NWA Committee.




We all know you can now say "fuel is cheaper now, so that doesn't count." Well, it's not about what WILL HAPPEN, but what you brought to the table, and your career expectations. Your pay is higher now too, but in the arbitration we use pre-DCC pay. We shall see I guess.

Any reason why the NWA snapshot was done on Jan 1st, 2008 (3 months prior to the announcement of the merger) vs July 1st, 2008? DTW320? Nu?



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Max Powers]

Hey General what years do you anticipate those 500 hundred to retire.....This is not flame just curious if you guys ever start hiring again I might want to make the jump over.

 

[DTW320]

Any reason why the NWA snapshot was done on Jan 1st, 2008 (3 months prior to the announcement of the merger) vs July 1st, 2008? DTW320? Nu?

Lots of 'em.....you have read our closing arguments haven't you? If so, you would know exactly. Start reading around page 30....

The significant difference between the two groups’ approaches is the time period
utilized. We used a twelve-month average for the period up to the snapshot date of 12-
31-07. The DAL pilots elected to use a single month, a month that reflects staffing long
after the two companies began merger discussions and several months past the actual
merger announcement date.

That's one clip.....there are many more reasons given. Read.

 

[Truckdriver]

Lots of 'em.....you have read our closing arguments haven't you? If so, you would know exactly. Start reading around page 30....

Wasn't it so you could count all the DC-9's, 757's, 747-200's, and A319's that you parked this year as being what you brought to the merger? That way you could create a few hundred phantom jobs to artificially inflate the ratios in your favor. That's what I read and I'm fairly certain the arbitration panel got the same message.

 

[Fly4hire]

Lots of 'em.....you have read our closing arguments haven't you? If so, you would know exactly. Start reading around page 30....

That's one clip.....there are many more reasons given. Read.

Dude, don't you know by now that all double standards only are allowed to benefit DAL?

But then again their entire SLI proposal is a double standard.

 

[DTW320]

Wasn't it so you could count all the DC-9's, 757's, 747-200's, and A319's that you parked this year as being what you brought to the merger? That way you could create a few hundred phantom jobs to artificially inflate the ratios in your favor. That's what I read and I'm fairly certain the arbitration panel got the same message.

Umm..No. You must not have read the same closing arguments that I did. And, BTW, YOU have NO idea what message the arbitration panel took away from anything. Go back and read again, starting around page 30.

BTW, On 1/1/08 we had 57 A319's in service and today? That's right.....57 in service. Hilarious how you like to talk about stand alone plans and what was brought but then you take a snapshot of one month, long after the merger was underway, to hinge everything upon. Fly4hire: Double Standard is putting it VERY mildly.

 

[RedRum]

December 8th cannot come soon enough!

You guys, go out and play a round of golf, kick the dog, or have a beer. Whatever it takes, you need to store your energy for the letdown EVERYONE is going to have on December 8th. There are going to be no windfalls for anyone. I think the arbitrators have made that painfully clear.

General,

Why do you flame the retired guys for taking their DB with them? It was theirs, they deserve it. I got zero, ziltch, nada for my DB and I have 8 years with this company. Those guys worked hard for their pensions and they deserve every penny. I think they are very grateful, albeit because of a federal mandate, that DAL is not contesting a full funding of their pensions.

Be good to eachother...