NWA Retirements

[FBN0223]

Met a new-hire '07 Delta pilot yesterday at LAX. His quote, "Last year I was at Pinnacle, now I am going to be senior to NWA '99 hires."

Just a little quote to remind us how the DAL proposal is a fricking absurd, unrealistic and greedy proposal. Hey, DALPA, YOU ARE NUMBER ONE(insert Bird here)!!!!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

That doesn't sound right, FBN. I think myself and one of my classmates were the only former 9E people proposed to be integrated in with 99 hires...and I haven't been anywhere close to LAX for months, and I know the other one hasn't either.

Calling BS on that one.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well I was just after Peanuckle and I was slotted in with late 99 hires as well.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Yeah, the next guy hired from 9e was in class in August or so... hence my suspision.

 

[FBN0223]

Yeah, the next guy hired from 9e was in class in August or so... hence my suspision.

Well the guy said he worked for Pinnacle. In any case, if you go to the DAL proposed list you will see 2007 Delta Newbies placed in front of NWA 1999 nine-year seasoned pilots. To hear Delta guys defend this and their proposal is truly comical.

Reminds me of that Rodney Dangerfield movie where the professor asks, "And where shall we place our factory?"
Rodney, "How about Fantasyland!!!"

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I personally don't think I'll be integrated in with 99 newhires. Ratio-wise (and current bidding power) it makes sense, but it would ruffle too many feathers.

 

[General Lee]

I personally don't think I'll be integrated in with 99 newhires. Ratio-wise (and current bidding power) it makes sense, but it would ruffle too many feathers.

AWA newhires were integrated with 1990 hires at USAir, and Nicelau thought that was fair. Did Greenbooks think what they were given was fair? Redbooks don't care what other people think.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Met a new-hire '07 Delta pilot yesterday at LAX. His quote, "Last year I was at Pinnacle, now I am going to be senior to NWA '99 hires."

Just a little quote to remind us how the DAL proposal is a fricking absurd, unrealistic and greedy proposal. Hey, DALPA, YOU ARE NUMBER ONE(insert Bird here)!!!!

USAir East guys thought the same, but relative seniority is the way to go---nobody moves from current position in the company. If your company stayed stagnate (no expansion), and the other company hired for expansion, there is NO reason to penalize the expanding company's pilots. Nope. Nicelau didn't think so.

And, if you are going to use my quote about being number 1, you need to pay me royalties.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

True, and there will be no chance for a negotiated list. We will wait and see what our arbitrators come up with. Love it or hate it, we will get to life with it.

I agree, that I hold the same bidding power as the NWA brethren I was slotted in with. If it were a straight ratio, I would loose about 300 to 400 slots. About one category of equipment.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Hate to say it but neither of us are hiring, and that was done for a reason.

 

[General Lee]

True, and there will be no chance for a negotiated list. We will wait and see what our arbitrators come up with. Love it or hate it, we will get to life with it.

I agree, that I hold the same bidding power as the NWA brethren I was slotted in with. If it were a straight ratio, I would loose about 300 to 400 slots. About one category of equipment.

Straight ratio? We bring more widebodies (like USAir did with their A330s), higher paying jobs (they bring more DC9s with their lower pay), and they already got a nice raise they don't like to talk about. They are bringing a NRT hub, some nice widebodies (some are going away sooner than later too), and some other hubs that we don't have......A slotted ratio by aircraft size and pay should be sufficent to keep people in the status quo, along with a certain amount at the bottom due to carreer expectations as a stand alone pre merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

Met a new-hire '07 Delta pilot yesterday at LAX. His quote, "Last year I was at Pinnacle, now I am going to be senior to NWA '99 hires."

So some Delta pilot just came up to you and spit out that quote? I think you are full of sh*t.

 

[FBN0223]

He was in the my jumpseat, moron. You want his name and employee number?

 

[DTW320]

I guess STAPLE could also be used too, but we for some reason decided against that, since it was about as dumb as DOH.True to form you are avoiding the issue: that DOH does not violate any ALPA merger policy. THAT was the issue, not some line pilot's opinion of whose proposal is "dumb".. Here's the timeline: YOU raised the issue, I showed that you were wrong, YOU ignored and/or changed the issue to deflect...I can set my watch by it...you do it EVERY time! Ask the USAir East guys how that went. Hey, ask your lawyer, he represented them. As I stated and you ignored, NWA's DOH proposal with C & R's is very diferent than USAir's....it just makes you feel better to ignore that FACT. You've got nothin on an ostrich there Private..

You guys want to throw the earliest date on there (Jan 1st) because that is when you still had most of your airplanes on the books, and after that a lot of them were announced to go away. We ALL CAN UNDERSTAND why you would want to do it, especially since the merger announcement was 3 months later. No, as was exhaustively delineated in our closing statement, it is because the merger planning at the executive level was well underway by then and fleet plans were being influenced. I'll give DALPA credit for being able to keep a straight face when saying that July 2008 reflects the stand alone (you know....what was brought to the merger) NWA plans.

Were our hourly rates the same in Jan as they were in July? Sure they were. We brought YOUR RATES UP TO OURS. Sorry, that's wrong. As was CLEARLY explained we were brought up to LOA 19 rates by DAL, not DALPA. Why did DALPA get LOA19 rates? Because Richard R E A L L Y wanted to merge with NWA and they had to grease the DALPA palm.There is nothing you can say about that. Golly Private.....I think I just did!

You can assume that Steenland and RA were "talking" prior to the merger, and you in your delusional business state of mind, apparently, can assume that NWA was making stand alone plans right up to DCC....but during the first attempt it was broken off at the last minute due to a dispute between RA and Steenland on who would receive which title while running the company. Total BS....trust me, keep flying airplanes, you are WAY to naive to venture into any executive position at a Fortune 100 company.Do you remember that? I am surprised that you guys didn't try to get the snapshot during the 1st merger attempt too. What if they had had another argument during this last time too? Could it have been scrapped again? Haven't you heard of the saying "I won't believe the plane is here until it is on our ramp." Nothing is final until the paperwork is signed, and in reality we should have made the snapshot at the DCC, but instead we decided to give in "again" to you and go for July. Man alive, we sure are nice to you guys. I can't wait until I can go into our MSP crew lounge, stop in the entrance, announce in the deepest voice I can, "Hey guys, thanks for your SLI proposal.....You guys are NUMBER ONE!! (and use a finger to show the number 1)" (although I think our guy will actually be number 1 in seniority)It will be fantastic. Other than all of that, welcome aboard! Let me know if you need directions. Since you'll likely be based there when this is over you'll be flipping off a LOT of RD's. You know, like they do to you right now...

Bye Bye--General Lee

You're really starting to reach on this stuff....just take a deep breath and R E L A X. Don't screw up your impending windfall by going out on medical (although if you do, you'll STILL be on the seniority list)

 

[michael707767]

He was in the my jumpseat, moron. You want his name and employee number?

Yeah, give it to me in a private message. I'll check it out. But I don't believe he was just sitting on your jumpseat and blurted out that exact statement.

 

[Fly4hire]

. Love it or hate it, we will get to life with it.

Prediction: NWA will lick their wounds and deal with whatever it is. DALPA will sue, appeal, etc, etc. much worse than what they have accused the Red/Green folks of if they don't get their expectations met.

I agree, that I hold the same bidding power as the NWA brethren I was slotted in with. If it were a straight ratio, I would loose about 300 to 400 slots. About one category of equipment.

Except you won't lose anything because there will be no bump or flush. Worse case is you might be where you are for a while.

 

[FBN0223]

Yeah, give it to me in a private message. I'll check it out. But I don't believe he was just sitting on your jumpseat and blurted out that exact statement.

I probably won't do that since I don't know who YOU are. Truth is, I liked the guy. Seemed like a straight shooter. The SLI came up in conversation and he mentioned that last year he was at Pinnacle and the Delta proposed SLI had him senior to NWA '99 hires. Look at the Delta SLI, he is correct.

 

[Truckdriver]

In any case, if you go to the DAL proposed list you will see 2007 Delta Newbies placed in front of NWA 1999 nine-year seasoned pilots.

We don't get seasoned at Delta until 10 years so I guess that wouldn't be fair. I wish we could have moved up our seasoning to year 9 like you guys have. That would have been great!

 

[General Lee]

.True to form you are avoiding the issue: that DOH does not violate any ALPA merger policy. THAT was the issue, not some line pilot's opinion of whose proposal is "dumb".. Here's the timeline: YOU raised the issue, I showed that you were wrong, YOU ignored and/or changed the issue to deflect...I can set my watch by it...you do it EVERY time! Great DOH can be used, but ALPA decided NOT to use it officially since 1991. Why do we have a merger policy? Is NALPA not a part of ALPA? How did USAIr East do? Same as you will do.


As I stated and you ignored, NWA's DOH proposal with C & R's is very diferent than USAir's....it just makes you feel better to ignore that FACT. You've got nothin on an ostrich there Private.. Talk about Ridiculous. Everything about your proposal with C&Rs was flawed to begin with, and the transcripts showed it. But hey, your "super premium" flying remark made people laugh..

No, as was exhaustively delineated in our closing statement, it is because the merger planning at the executive level was well underway by then and fleet plans were being influenced. I'll give DALPA credit for being able to keep a straight face when saying that July 2008 reflects the stand alone (you know....what was brought to the merger) NWA plans. Do you have ANY documentation showing that RA was in direct talks telling Steenland what to do prior to the Merger announcement? I bet you do not, but you think you do. What would RA or Steenland say? What about the first merger attempt? Why don't you use that date then? Just because they scrapped it at the last minute, shouldn't disuade you........You lost on that one.. until the merger announcement is MADE, it can be scrapped at anytime. Go watch Kramer and learn something.

Sorry, that's wrong. As was CLEARLY explained we were brought up to LOA 19 rates by DAL, not DALPA. Why did DALPA get LOA19 rates? Because Richard R E A L L Y wanted to merge with NWA and they had to grease the DALPA palm. Huh? We have had higher rates than you have for a few years now. The LOA19 rates allow us to get a raise on Jan 1st. We brought your rates up to our CURRENT rates, and then you will get the 5% raise along with us in Jan. Why is this so hard for you to understand? You need to unthaw your brain with Type 4. And we could have done LOA 19 with you earlier, but Stevens had to go to Mexico....

Golly Private.....I think I just did! Wrong, I might add, again.

, and you in your delusional business state of mind, apparently, can assume that NWA was making stand alone plans right up to DCC.... It could have been. This was the SECOND of the two merger attempts. Did you know about the first one? I guess not. How did it get scuttled again? Sorry, but again you are wrong, no direct talks until the merger is announced, and Jan 1st for you guys is way off. I bet RA and Steenland were thinking about it, though. Yeah, and RA is probably thinking about Alaska and Jetblue now too, so make sure you call those guys and give them a date to mark on their future arbitration hearings too.....

Total BS....trust me, keep flying airplanes, you are WAY to naive to venture into any executive position at a Fortune 100 company. Total BS? You don't know that. I can give you articles describing it, but of course you KNOW they are lying. Whatever, you have no proof. Steenland wanted to stay around for the money train, and he used to work FOR RA, and RA didn't want him at the Chairman of the Board position. RA said no, and Steenland gave up after thinking he may lose a lot of money. Sorry, that is how it happened. RA didn't want to work for a guy who used to work for him.

Let me know if you need directions. Since you'll likely be based there when this is over you'll be flipping off a LOT of RD's. You know, like they do to you right now... Just remember, wear your hat in ATL, and don't wear the Fonzi jacket. And, a MSP captain position won't be bad for me, the 757 flights out of there seem alright. Can't wait, and I will immediately come in to the lounge and say out loud, "Hey Hosers, did you see the gophers last night? They are A-Boat the best College football team in Minnesota, eh?"


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Except you won't lose anything because there will be no bump or flush. Worse case is you might be where you are for a while.

By that same logic, you wouldn't lose anything if you were stapled to the bottom of the list with no bump and no flush. You might be where you are for awhile, but hey, no biggie.