Nwa Recalls

[NuGuy]

I just got off the NWA Alpa site and looks like they had to use the short notice recall provision to fill the Nov Class. Hire date of the last selected guy was 4-10-2000. That's about 300 notices for recall for 50 dudes to show. Another round of recalls should be coming next week. Does anyone know if the training foot print has changed much since the new contract came around? Used to be 6 weeks for the DC9.

Hey Holmie,

The list is progressing into the folks that have been out more than 5 years. Once in that territory, it will probably be more like 7-8 weeks, since you have to do basic indoc all over again. 2 weeks for systems, and probably 4 for CPT/Sims/Checkrides and OE.

They're already out of pilots. Mass cancellations, and from what I hear, crew skeds are calling guys that are out sick to see "if you're better yet, cause we really need you".

Nu

 

[JAM-BRO]

Jam-Bro,

I am sorry for what happened to you. Do you think it would be fair to include the furloughed guys too. At least you get 1300 bucks. What about the poor guys who were furloughed and get no longevity for pay or retirement.

I have heard some guys have been on furlough for 4 years, yet they come back at 1st year pay.

I think everyone "SOLD" eachother out. The senior dudes are going to laugh their way to the bank.

Cya

I am with you on that... Our MEC managed to leave the furloghees without a vote on our POS contract. That way their pension was saved. Also the fact that 50%of our pilots are over 50, they were scared into voting yes to save their pension. Big mistake. Now after two months of flying the crap that the company is allowed under the new rules, everybody is pissed!!!! As for the furloghees, the best thing they can do is not come back. That may prompt the company to grant the furloghees time away as time served. NO sweat on the company's back since they could start hiring new guys by mid 2007. This last weekend there was a ********************load of cancellations due to no crews. We have over 700 guys out in the streets and we cancel due to lack of crews. Who is running this circus????

 

[NuGuy]

I am with you on that... Our MEC managed to leave the furloghees without a vote on our POS contract. That way their pension was saved. Also the fact that 50%of our pilots are over 50, they were scared into voting yes to save their pension. Big mistake. Now after two months of flying the crap that the company is allowed under the new rules, everybody is pissed!!!! As for the furloghees, the best thing they can do is not come back. That may prompt the company to grant the furloghees time away as time served. NO sweat on the company's back since they could start hiring new guys by mid 2007. This last weekend there was a ********************load of cancellations due to no crews. We have over 700 guys out in the streets and we cancel due to lack of crews. Who is running this circus????

Heyas Jam,

Funny thing...the seniors jammed this crap TA down everyone's throat to save the pension, then after they found out "gee, you mean the zero open time and crap schedules applies to US too?"

Now they are trying anything and everything to fix it up, but the MEC won't let them. Now all the senior pukes are talking about recalls of the bluebook LEC reps. It would be hysterical to watch if it wasn't so fcuking sad.

Nu

 

[AnimalTale]

Hey Jam-Bro,

Just talked with a friend of mine who is a senior 330 CA (Red Book) pilot based out of Detoilet.

He told me that a majority of the pilots are complaining and raising HELL with the new work rules. He also noted that the WIDEBODY guys are not that effected. The majority of the complaints are coming from a MUCH ABUSED NARROWBODY Population.

In Fact, I think the F'n NWA ALPA MEC must have been Widebody pilots because these poor narrowbody pilots got sold to the devil.

I hope oneday the SENIOR GUYS get Hosed. Man, I h8 Duane Worthless too, POS.


CYA

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Ok I am drunk and tired of the whining. I am mid seniority (3300-3600) 1995 hire. Would you ********************ing cry babies stop whineing and run for office or some other posistion. All you do is sling ******************** on the Alpa forum and I never see any new names running for lec posistions. ALPA is not the problem! We are as a profession no matter what airline your from. That includes you sissys at aa that voted your ********************ty concessionary contract in with the threat of Ch.11 and you swa types that took the 10 yr contract in the early 90's with no raises for growth, and don't get me going about you lcc douchbags. 63% voted for this pos that brought us down to the current golden child-CAL in work rules (because they are hiring) which nobody would have considerded as a 1st choice 4-5 yrs ago(not that nwa was, but at least 4-5 behind aa,dal,ual,ups and fedex) and USairs ********************ty payrates after the CH 11 butt ********************ing and America Wests bottom feeding rates. Consideriing over 50% of our seniority list was hired after the merger stop ********************ing whining about the former red book guys. The red/green guys ie. senior amount to less than 40% of the seniority list, that means the majority (blue book-post merger hires) did not have the intestinal fortitude to vote no. So stop blaming it on red/senior votes. Yes they did skew the presentations but we were all big girls and boys enough to know that after comparing what the other airline had come down to that nwa overreached, but WE voted yes out of fear and now we have to live with it. The only good news is they are having trouble staffing the airline and hopefully the anger amongst the group(including the weak dicks that voted yes to FIGHT ANOTHER DAY crowd) that are having their schedules trashed will band together to get a pound of flesh back for every ounce needed from mgt. OK, I am done ranting. Btw I voted no for the contract and yes for the strike.

 

[lionflyer]

When's the "new" contract amendable if I dare ask?

 

[jetflier]

Cobra..

I totally agree !

Your commentary sayis it all, about the industry, and about NWA. Based on that info the only way we as pilots can go now is up!.....Pay and workrules need to be improved across the industry....starting with the smallest aircraft.
RJ's need to be viewed as smaller mainline aircraft as their flying is closer than ever to the mainline job.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I met a Capt at NWA who is leaving the narrow body fleet ASAP to be a -400 FO. He said all the crappy changes basically only affected the narrowbody guys (except for the paycuts, of course).

I was supposed to fly to GRB this past Mon, but the flight was cancelled. Luckily, I got on a Pinnacle flight to ATW.

The Mesaba RJ-85s are due to all be pulled offline shortly, so that will take a lot of PAX seat-miles out of the system. I heard NWA was pulling -9s out of the desert to cover that flying, and of course, they are getting the new jets next spring for Compass to replace them. However, it sounds like the crew-manning situation at NWA will get even worse with more planes on line at NWA to try and cover the RJ-85 flying.

I hope things get better soon!!!

cliff
GRB

 

[AnimalTale]

Hi!

I met a Capt at NWA who is leaving the narrow body fleet ASAP to be a -400 FO. He said all the crappy changes basically only affected the narrowbody guys (except for the paycuts, of course).
cliff
GRB

Cliff,

Thats what my friend (A330CA) said too!

Can somebody tell me how the narrowbody pilots at NWA got the lesser of the deal? Is there not more narrowbody pilots at NWA(so shouldnt the new contract have been voted down?)? Dont you all vote for the contract? Did you narrowbody guys actually READ this proposed contract or did you faithully follow your ELECTED MEC OFFICIALS's (which are probably senior widebody captains) recommendations?

I am asking because I am wondering why there are so many complaints? The proposal was in your face and if it sucked so bad why did you vote YES?

Also, I have another question. When Compa$$ startes up, and NWA retires the DC9s, is the company going to force the '9 pilots into Compa$$ by threatening furlough? I just do not see much room at Mainline for displaced '9 pilots (maybe 1300 DC9 pilots).

I hope your MEC thought of all these scenarios too instead of worry about their pension and widebody skeds.

I hope you guys turn this thing around. Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

This industry is AMAZING! Duane Worth should have sacraficed his greed for an SOS. I am almost certain the ALPA pilots would have gained momentum over managments tactics. Just look at the profits NWA, UAL & Delta posted. Managment Bluffed and ALPA bought it! Too Bad. It wll take years to recover the losses.



CYA

 

[Going2Baja]

No...Not really or maybe. You know the old saying, "Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice shame on me." After spending numerous years at the company that I thought was going to be my last job, I will have the wonderful opportunity to return AGAIN after the second furlough in a year to start all over at the entry level position (for the third time). The only difference is this time I will be making 40% less than the last time, working more hours, with less vacation, no retirement to speak of, and 1/2 pay for deadheading (which happens a lot on reserve) and working under the POS contract for the next 10 years. Rather than bitterly enduring a questionable future with the very real possibility of another furlough or even worse, flying for Compass, I choose to vote with my feet and move on to another company with a better track record and what I feel will be much better job security. I feel extremely fortunate to have that option since many of my friends don't. So you see, I don't HAVE MINE yet, and if leaving and making room for someone else to fulfill their dream at NWA makes it all about ME, then so be it. You are welcome to my spot. AMF!

EXACTLY what I'm trying to do!!! It's really no different than starting at the bottom of someone elses senority other than probie pay for a year and if you choose your carrier correctly you should be WAY ahead in the longrun!

BTW - ExAF - Where did you go??

Baja.

 

[filejw]

Narrow body flying is more effected by rigs and duty. The wide body international flying normally has legs from 8 to 14 hrs so rigs don't come into play very often.Its always been this way but the new contract makes it worst.International pilots have added 1 or 2 days to their month and domestic 3 or 4.

 

[AnimalTale]

Narrow body flying is more effected by rigs and duty. The wide body international flying normally has legs from 8 to 14 hrs so rigs don't come into play very often.Its always been this way but the new contract makes it worst.International pilots have added 1 or 2 days to their month and domestic 3 or 4.

Thanks for the info.

If the statement you make is correct with the Rigs and such. Why would the majority of NWA pilots who are Narrowbody pilots vote for such a contract?

Again, did the NWA MEC make available to ALL pilots, the proposed contract?

If they did, then nobody should complain because they voted for the contract.

Cya

 

[filejw]

Everybody got to read the contract before they vote so...I guess they all just went for the MEC 's live to fight an other day theory.

 

[ExAF]

Obviously Can't Read

Everybody got to read the contract before they vote so...I guess they all just went for the MEC 's live to fight an other day theory.

My guess is not enough of them actually read it. I find it hard to believe that so many of them are so ignorant that they would have actually read that POS contract and still voted for it. I can actually buy the international airline voting for it because they had less (relatively) to lose and less impact on their QOL. They had retirement on the brain and I can see that as well. The over 50 group was too scared to vote no after hearing the MECs (mostly red book international airline) analysis of gloom and doom. After all who is willing to start over at anything if you are already over 50? When you add the international airline with the over 50 age group (a lot of overlap there), you have a Marjory. Now everyone is stuck with this POS for at least as long as the over 50 group is still on the property unless retirement age goes to 65. Very sad actually.

 

[filejw]

AF your a bit off on the international flying . Most the red guys were younger say 45 to 50 with 20/22 yrs of serves.The pension thing is really tilted by IRS rules and the guys with 25 plus yrs got the most as they had the most put in for them so to speak and there is just not that many of them. Certainly not the 64% that voted yes.
A good friend of mine had 20 yrs and I had 27 and he gets 1/3 of the frozen pension I get. I was getting more monthly for the final average earnings but not that much more.

 

[ExAF]

How So?

AF your a bit off on the international flying . Most the red guys were younger say 45 to 50 with 20/22 yrs of serves.The pension thing is really tilted by IRS rules and the guys with 25 plus yrs got the most as they had the most put in for them so to speak and there is just not that many of them. Certainly not the 64% that voted yes.
A good friend of mine had 20 yrs and I had 27 and he gets 1/3 of the frozen pension I get. I was getting more monthly for the final average earnings but not that much more.

So what's your point. How am I off? I addressed 2 groups. 1. International flyers. 2. Over 50 age group. I didn't say the over 50 crowd was Red book or international fliers were over 50. I said the over 50 group were too scared to vote no. I also said the international airline voted yes (no mention of book color or age). The international boys voted yes AND the over 50 crowd voted yes which must have equaled a majority. I feel pretty confident stating that is wasn't the bottom half of the seniority list that actually read the contract proposal that voted yes. The only thing I mentioned book color on was my mention that the gloom and doom road show was by mostly redbook international pilots. If I am incorrect in that statement, my apologies. Sounds to me like you voted yes and are proud of it. Good for you! So which are you...international airline or over 50?

 

[filejw]

The point is at 64% people from every part of the list voted yes cause more old guys like me voted no than you think!

 

[filejw]

BTW the ALPA hotline today shows about 20% accept recall.

 

[NuGuy]

BTW the ALPA hotline today shows about 20% accept recall.

Heyas,

It's actually closer to %15. They've had to go through OVER half the furlough list (450+) to get people in 3 months of classes. They sent out 120 recalls to fill 25 spots for DEC, and they will most likely have to send out another 120 to fill it.

Nu

 

[filejw]

They also figure everybody will be offered recall by Feb 07 and then the take it or leave it calls from the bottom up will start after that.

 

[pilotyip]

You can understand pilot being concerned about going back. We have an furloughed NWA pilot working for us, he was recalled in Mar of 05, and was back flying a DA-20 in Nov of 05. Lost about 12 numbers, not that that means that much on our list, for a short stay at NWA.

 

[ExAF]

My Apologies

The point is at 64% people from every part of the list voted yes cause more old guys like me voted no than you think!

If you voted no I offer my humble apology. As for 64% across the board, I don't think there was a single 9 or bus FO that voted yes, so the 64% is across some other board me thinks.

 

[NuGuy]

If you voted no I offer my humble apology. As for 64% across the board, I don't think there was a single 9 or bus FO that voted yes, so the 64% is across some other board me thinks.

Heyas AF,

The senior guys are generally divided into three camps.

The vote no guys, who are really stand up type people. These pilots are typically quite vocal about their displeasure, and are probably why we have as many reasonable LEC reps as we do (still not enough!). My guess is that they are centered around DTW, with some in ANC.

Then there are vote yes guys who realized they screwed the mid and junior folk, but are nice enough to stop flapping their yap. They realize that they have gotten the proverbial golden parachute, so they've buttoned their pie hole and will take the money and run without trying to make things more miserable than they already are.

THEN there are the asshats that led the fear mongering once they saw the no vote might have a chance of pulling off a coup. But even once their pension was reasonably secure, and had an agreement that they don't really have to live with all that long, they couldn't leave it at that, but had to plunder the DC for another 5% that they aren't entitled to AND grab the lions share of any equity/bonus distribution. On top of that, they start trying to recall anyone on the MEC who has a mind of their own, and isn't part of the MSP Borg collective.

These are the same brainiacs who go off about how lucky the junior pilots are to have a job and can't understand why the recall acceptance rate hovers around %15.


Nu

 

[LaidOffAgain]

hey

How low did the recall go for the class at the end of this year?? What was the date of hire? A buddy passed it up and he was a Sept 99 hire. Did it go all the way down to the 2000 hires?? Thx LOA(no longer laid off) : )

 

[NuGuy]

How low did the recall go for the class at the end of this year?? What was the date of hire? A buddy passed it up and he was a Sept 99 hire. Did it go all the way down to the 2000 hires?? Thx LOA(no longer laid off) : )

They don't know. The letters just went out for the DEC class. 119 for 25 spots. If the last two months are any indication, they will have to follow up with another batch of "short notice" recalls.

I think this last batch is late December 99. They are more than halfway downt the list.

Nu

 

[filejw]

Hell, even if you were out of work who would come back during the holidays. One you will be working every Xmas for the next few yrs anyway and two having your check ride scheduled for Dec sucks.

 

[titans10]

They also figure everybody will be offered recall by Feb 07 and then the take it or leave it calls from the bottom up will start after that.

I thought the nwa guys could bypass as long as they want. JUst as long as a junior guy is still furloughed.

 

[mynameisjim]

I thought the nwa guys could bypass as long as they want. JUst as long as a junior guy is still furloughed.

That's what he means by that. They are estimating that bypassing will no longer be an option anymore after approx. Feb 07. In reverse seniority order.

 

[filejw]

"These are the same brainiacs who go off about how lucky the junior pilots are to have a job and can't understand why the recall acceptance rate hovers around %15."

Just got off the phone with a buddy on the 320. His complaints make me shudder to think what the 9 trips look like. 18 days a month to fly 88 hrs is way to much. What management is needs to know is people may put up with 88 hrs but they want to work only 12/14 days at most.Thats what the rigs are for as guys want to be more efficient with days worked.

 

[NuGuy]

"These are the same brainiacs who go off about how lucky the junior pilots are to have a job and can't understand why the recall acceptance rate hovers around %15."

Just got off the phone with a buddy on the 320. His complaints make me shudder to think what the 9 trips look like. 18 days a month to fly 88 hrs is way to much. What management is needs to know is people may put up with 88 hrs but they want to work only 12/14 days at most.Thats what the rigs are for as guys want to be more efficient with days worked.

Agreed. Word is that sick calls are through the roof, and managament is already warming up the "abuse of sick leave" speech.

There is no way that 88/94 hour months are sustainable with 12 days off. Guys are going to burn out left and right.

Even with the retarded 75% sick call pay, guys are just saying "fck it" and taking the hit. For pilots to walk away from money because the job sucks is very telling indeed. Of course the senior guys don't give a rat's ass, because all this means for them is working maybe one more day, and alot of those guys are HIT lovers anyway.

You know it's pretty bad when you basically have to "junior man" pilots to come off of furlough back to a major. Sad....

Nu