NWA pilots want stake in merged carrier....article

[Diesel-9]

NU, correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the Newbridge Agreement expires near the end of April '08. Something will happen soon either way.

 

[scarlet]

I thought All these carriers were ALPA,,ALPA I believe is date of hire ???

 

[hockeypilot44]

I thought All these carriers were ALPA,,ALPA I believe is date of hire ???

ALPA is fair and equitable whatever that means. It was not DOH in the Airways/AW merger. It was fair and equitable. LOL.

 

[NuGuy]

NU, correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the Newbridge Agreement expires near the end of April '08. Something will happen soon either way.

Something like that. Time will come to fish or cut bait at that point.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

No, becase CAL/DAL is mostly redundant. NY/EWR and ATL/IAH covers pretty much the same territory domestically, and both are heavy into Europe and reasonable in SoAM.

The only thing CAL has that DAL doesn't is a Asian network. CAL has a pretty nice European thing going.

Anderson, when he was at NWA, was once asked at a pilot meeting what his biggest mistake was, and he said point blank "not buying CAL when we had the chance". Steenland could be trying to pull that coup to one up his old boss.

CAL and NWA have been working together since 1998. I've seen CAL carts on NWA AC and vice versa and they've been swapping met services for a while.

CALs Guam flying and NWAs NRT routes would really put a hold on the Pacific, and the two route structures complement each other at least as well as DAL/NWA, and it's a smaller overall package, and probably better able to jump the DOJ hurdle.

NWA still has the option to buy out CAL via the Newbridge Agreement. I'm betting that is their ace in the hole, because they can tell DAL to go piss up rope and still put together a killer deal in a matter of weeks, and DAL is left with some "less than optimum" options. The latest news in MSP (Strib) says that NWA IS talking with other parties, but who knows what that means.

Besides, NWA + DAL has some rather nasty history anyway. After the failed deal in 86 over who was going to run the show, and the sleigh of hand NWA pulled in 98 to snake CAL away from DAL at the last minute, there is some definate bad blood between them.

So, who f'in knows? I have my popcorn and beer, so I'm just watching the show...

Nu

Bad blood between DAL and NWA? Now? Maybe back in 86, and maybe in 98---but everyone who was incharge back then is now gone. Anderson, who ran NWA, is now running DAL, along with a bunch of his old friends from there. I think they have bridged the hate gap.

If CAL went with NWA, do you still think you would keep MEM, and they would keep CLE? Same DOJ hurdles.

It will be interesting to watch, and it is Delta's game to lose if Anderson can't close the deal. Steenland seemed ready and able to play though, and his change of command clause in his own contract will give him enough money to find a large home on Lake Minnetonka. NWA's employees hate their management, and it is very likely that DL management would be more accepted by them than Steenland taking over for DAL. Also, I can't see many Delta executives moving to MSP and driving their new beemers on ice. We'll see.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

It will be interesting to watch, and it is Delta's game to lose if Anderson can't close the deal. Bye Bye--General Lee

Actually, it's more like Delta's game to choose.

This is far from a done deal. Don't be surprised if DAL doesn't go with NWA either chooses UAL or walks away.

 

[captain dad]

Good Luck with all that.

Let the B!tch fest continue.

Northwest pilots want stake in merged carrier

Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:56pm NEW YORK, Jan 24 (Reuters) - The pilots of Northwest Airlines Corp (NWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Thursday they would support a merger between Northwest and another carrier, but want a stake in a combined airline in return.​

"We would agree to be favorable toward a merger if the right partner could be found," Greg Rizzuto, a spokesman for Northwest's pilots union, told Reuters. "For that, we'd want job security for our pilots, contract improvements ... as well as an equity stake.​

"We need a viable company that can survive the economic ups and downs and $100 a barrel oil," Rizzuto said in a telephone interview.​

Delta reportedly started merger talks with both Northwest and United Airlines parent UAL Corp (UAUA.O: Quote, Profile, Research) earlier this month. The airlines have declined to comment.​

On Thursday, Delta repeated its statement that it is not providing updates of its ongoing strategic review. Northwest was not immediately available for comment.​

The statement is the latest sign the airline industry's powerful labor unions are willing to back a merger if they get something in return.​

Northwest's flight attendants, which like the carrier's pilots were forced to accept deep wage cuts while Northwest was in bankruptcy, said earlier this week that its backing of a merger would be conditional on job protection, higher wages and a stake in the combined company. (Reporting by Chris Reiter; Editing by Andre Grenon)​

Bye Bye--General Lee​

​

 

[Noserider76]

Actually, it's more like Delta's game to choose.

This is far from a done deal. Don't be surprised if DAL doesn't go with NWA either chooses UAL or walks away.

It's always seemed to me that UAL/DL is a no-brainer if consolodation is forced on us. It would have the country and the world covered from hubs at JFK, ORD, LAX, SFO, ATL, DIA, 60-70 777s, 767/757s, A-320s, 737s and MD-88/90s.

You would seem to get a far better route structure and a much better fleet. Not sure what the guys in charge are looking at besides their wallets.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's always seemed to me that UAL/DL is a no-brainer if consolodation is forced on us. It would have the country and the world covered from hubs at JFK, ORD, LAX, SFO, ATL, DIA, 60-70 777s, 767/757s, A-320s, 737s and MD-88/90s.

You would seem to get a far better route structure and a much better fleet. Not sure what the guys in charge are looking at besides their wallets.

Good points!

I think the financials work out better, too. A stock swap between UA/DL (given the make-up of the significant shareholders) would probably be easier.

But it won't happen without a pre-nup...and I think that's a tougher nut to crack for UA/DL.

At some point, the BOD's of each company will signal their preference, and the management's will be told to git 'r done! The whining of upper-level drones lamenting their lost jobs will be muffled by huge bricks of money jammed into their gaping pie holes. Middle-management drones will strap on their "upgrade" kneepads and do their best make things happen...in fervent hopes that they'll be tapped to move up.

The pilots will see "harmony" money thrown their way. Pay bumps, equity, and some contractual cherry-picking. A smart pilot group would do their best to avoid fences, which are anachronistic harmony-killers that make no sense if you've blended your list properly.

I don't see UA doing that as easily as NW, but that's just my opinion. My view is that the DL pilots are farther down the merger road than any of us, and they're looking forward...not back.

The risk is jamming together two operations that don't click globally (think alliance structure), and finding yourself back in Chapter 11 in a year.

Ultimately, I think that's why the pre-established alliance with DL/NW pushes the deal in that direction. UA/DL pencils better...but NW/DL is more likely.

 

[Noserider76]

Good points!

I think the financials work out better, too. A stock swap between UA/DL (given the make-up of the significant shareholders) would probably be easier.

But it won't happen without a pre-nup...and I think that's a tougher nut to crack for UA/DL.

At some point, the BOD's of each company will signal their preference, and the management's will be told to git 'r done! The whining of upper-level drones lamenting their lost jobs will be muffled by huge bricks of money jammed into their gaping pie holes. Middle-management drones will strap on their "upgrade" kneepads and do their best make things happen...in fervent hopes that they'll be tapped to move up.

The pilots will see "harmony" money thrown their way. Pay bumps, equity, and some contractual cherry-picking. A smart pilot group would do their best to avoid fences, which are anachronistic harmony-killers that make no sense if you've blended your list properly.

I don't see UA doing that as easily as NW, but that's just my opinion. My view is that the DL pilots are farther down the merger road than any of us, and they're looking forward...not back.

The risk is jamming together two operations that don't click globally (think alliance structure), and finding yourself back in Chapter 11 in a year.

Ultimately, I think that's why the pre-established alliance with DL/NW pushes the deal in that direction. UA/DL pencils better...but NW/DL is more likely.

Thanks for perspective. I've also heard the theory that DAL and NWA accomplished much more in BK after watching UAL and have less debt. It just seems that except for Skyteam and great people, DL and NWA have almost nothing in common. Are there solutions to the narrowbody fleet that pilots would have any input over? Compass? I see this as a whole lot of pain and you still end up with gaping holes in coverage such as the West Coast.

As far as fences, I hope you're right that a smart integration wouldn't need them. I see them as protection against the ultimate quality of life killer... not being able to hold your current base and equipment. Almost as bad would be seeing your in-base upgrade potential evaporate. Worse yet would be seeing an entire fleet retired and you're newly integrated job go with it.

As a side, have you thought about a second career as a writer? You've definitely got the talent. Cheers.

 

[IAHERJ]

Actually, it's more like Delta's game to choose.

This is far from a done deal. Don't be surprised if DAL doesn't go with NWA either chooses UAL or walks away.

I hope Delta just walks away. Let's all just do our own thing and see who can manage to survive on their own. I think all of the big 5 can make it own their own. No need for all the bad blood.

IAHERJ

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for perspective. I've also heard the theory that DAL and NWA accomplished much more in BK after watching UAL and have less debt. It just seems that except for Skyteam and great people, DL and NWA have almost nothing in common. Are there solutions to the narrowbody fleet that pilots would have any input over? Compass? I see this as a whole lot of pain and you still end up with gaping holes in coverage such as the West Coast.

As far as fences, I hope you're right that a smart integration wouldn't need them. I see them as protection against the ultimate quality of life killer... not being able to hold your current base and equipment. Almost as bad would be seeing your in-base upgrade potential evaporate. Worse yet would be seeing an entire fleet retired and you're newly integrated job go with it.

As a side, have you thought about a second career as a writer? You've definitely got the talent. Cheers.

Having holes on the West Coast is GOOD. Why? That is called needed expansion. I know the fleets aren't very common at all with DL and NWA. Who would like that? Our creditor BOEING. They would love some new orders. The NWA guys still have their pensions, which means they would have a choice to go out at 60, or stay if they want. What choice do the thousands of senior guys at United have? None, they will stay until 65.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

The risk is jamming together two operations that don't click globally (think alliance structure), and finding yourself back in Chapter 11 in a year.

Excellent points as always. I agree with your assesment of fences. IMO, they are divisive. If the list is properly structured there should be no need for long fences.

As far as the alliances clicking, UAL has recently made it clear that they are willing to dump the Star Alliance if need be. IMO, UAL debt is a bigger issue.

If it's a merger, that creates a viable and growing company capable of succesfully competing in the international market, labor needs to be onboard at the formative stages of the transaction.

If the merger makes sense and if labor plays nice, not only with management, but with each other, the new company will have significantly more value for all stakeholders and shareholders. This could be a rare opportunity to get some equity up front and repair contracts that were negotiated in bankruptcy years earlier than would otherwise be available.

However, any merger will have to yield significant benefit to the pilots in order to justify pilot support of a change to the status quo.

A merger at this point is not a done deal, I would not be surprised to see DAL walk away.

 

[FDJ2]

I hope Delta just walks away. Let's all just do our own thing and see who can manage to survive on their own. I think all of the big 5 can make it own their own. No need for all the bad blood.

IAHERJ

It just may come to that. I would not be surprised to see DAL walk away from the entire idea. It's definitely in the realm of possibility.

JMHO, but if DAL doesn't initiate a merger, there will be no mega mergers anytime soon.

 

[Noserider76]

Having holes on the West Coast is GOOD. Why? That is called needed expansion. I know the fleets aren't very common at all with DL and NWA. Who would like that? Our creditor BOEING. They would love some new orders. The NWA guys still have their pensions, which means they would have a choice to go out at 60, or stay if they want. What choice do the thousands of senior guys at United have? None, they will stay until 65.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Good point on the retirements. As far as the West Coast and domestic expansion, I hope you are right but I have a feeling management is thinking domestic contraction instead.