Nwa Pilots No Support Amfa?

[psycho]

Where are you guys?

I am sick. Consign me to hell in the Canadair Loser jet if you will. Work rules suck and pay scales are pitiful. Now come YOUR Mechanics and you bail on them TOO. Guess Steenland has your support come the 20TH. Good luck when it's your turn.

 

[COpilot]

You brought this up, and I'm going to say it again. What is the difference between you guys crossing the picket line, and the EAL guys that crossed?

I don't really care, I belive within each person they have a reason, some very good reasons to show up for work. It's just on a whole that most of you call someone like myself a scab (behind my back) because I went to work at CO, even though it was AFTER the strike. You call a EAL manager a SCAB when he/she flew, and they were outside of the contract.

But now you guys throw up your arms and say "oh this is not our fight" so we'll fly. What a bunch of hypocrites. And belive me I should know, I am one too, and work with plenty of them.

 

[SMMustang]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!!!

There are times to go on strike, and other times not to. You do not go on strike during hard economic times for you company. This is a sinking ship and you believe that we should put more torpedoes in it? If the pilots wanted to put up a fight, they wouldn't have renegotiated their own contract. C'mon people think!

Unions are dead. Haven't you been reading about the AFL-CIO? The unions of this country have pretty much outsourced a lot of labor from this country to China! When you go to Wal-Mart and by the $5 made in China t-shirt instead of the $7 made in America tshirt, I guess I should call you a scab for that too!

The pilot profession is dead. Mechanics will be paid more that pilots eventually...why? Because their talents can be crossed over to other professions. Why should a mechanic work for $50/hour at Continental when he can go to BMW and get $65/hour with better working conditions. Pilots don't have that luxury, and therefore will be paid less and less in the future until you are pretty much just a bus driver.

Let's say the pilots did threaten a walkout...the company declares bankrupcy the day before the strike and the contract that we DID negotiate is tossed in favor of us making something less than what UA pilots are currently making...HOW WOULD THAT HELP THE PILOT INDUSTRY?

The only rational that I see other carriers wishing that the NWA pilots walk is to see NWA go Chapt 13 and create a lot of supply for their own selfish purposes.

Let's see what our options are

A) cross the mechanics line and hope the company stays afloat

B) Honor the picket line and start a new career as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Uh, Gee, I think I'll take option A.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!!!

There are times to go on strike, and other times not to. You do not go on strike during hard economic times for you company. This is a sinking ship and you believe that we should put more torpedoes in it? If the pilots wanted to put up a fight, they wouldn't have renegotiated their own contract. C'mon people think!

Unions are dead. Haven't you been reading about the AFL-CIO? The unions of this country have pretty much outsourced a lot of labor from this country to China! When you go to Wal-Mart and by the $5 made in China t-shirt instead of the $7 made in America tshirt, I guess I should call you a scab for that too!

The pilot profession is dead. Mechanics will be paid more that pilots eventually...why? Because their talents can be crossed over to other professions. Why should a mechanic work for $50/hour at Continental when he can go to BMW and get $65/hour with better working conditions. Pilots don't have that luxury, and therefore will be paid less and less in the future until you are pretty much just a bus driver.

Let's say the pilots did threaten a walkout...the company declares bankrupcy the day before the strike and the contract that we DID negotiate is tossed in favor of us making something less than what UA pilots are currently making...HOW WOULD THAT HELP THE PILOT INDUSTRY?

The only rational that I see other carriers wishing that the NWA pilots walk is to see NWA go Chapt 13 and create a lot of supply for their own selfish purposes.

Let's see what our options are

A) cross the mechanics line and hope the company stays afloat

B) Honor the picket line and start a new career as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Uh, Gee, I think I'll take option A.

You forgot C) Wait until NWA decides to strong arm you guys by hiring/training replacement pilots.

 

[320AV8R]

I am sick. Consign me to hell in the Canadair Loser jet if you will. Work rules suck and pay scales are pitiful.

So it's the NWA mainline pilot's fault that your life sucks....got it. If it's so bad, why don't you quit ?

Now come YOUR Mechanics and you bail on them TOO.
Guess Steenland has your support come the 20TH

I assume that we are letting the RJ guys down......explain how. And we are bailing on the mechanics ? Explain how. The only thing ALPA has stated is that support for the mechanics, or lack thereof, won't be decided until after the strike deadline.

Good luck when it's your turn.

We'll need it, since there doesn't seem to be any support from anybody else.
Seems like everybody enjoys busting our balls, of course, until it comes time to ask for the Jumpseat.
320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

We'll need it, since there doesn't seem to be any support from anybody else.
Seems like everybody enjoys busting our balls, of course, until it comes time to ask for the Jumpseat.
320AV8R

What's the jumpseat got to do with it? You guys are some of the biggest commuters out there. My guess is your not driving from DTW/MSP to Florida.

 

[320AV8R]

What's the jumpseat got to do with it? You guys are some of the biggest commuters out there. My guess is your not driving from DTW/MSP to Florida.

There are a select few on this board that take every opportunity to find fault with any and everything NWA and any of its pilots does.

But if it's 10:30 pm, and you're stuck in Bumfuctegypt, and a NWA airplane is the only way out, somehow their opinion changes; for the time being.

320AV8R

 

[WillowRunVortex]

There are a select few on this board that take every opportunity to find fault with any and everything NWA and any of its pilots does.

But if it's 10:30 pm, and you're stuck in Bumfuctegypt, and a NWA airplane is the only way out, somehow their opinion changes; for the time being.

320AV8R

Well thats not me. My family has a personal stake in what is transpiring at NWA. The simple fact of the matter is the NWA pilots are empowering NWA management, albeit indirectly. Anyone who has ANY excperience with the culture of NWA management knows that is a group that needs to be taken down a few notches not given more leverage.

 

[dbrownie]

Where are you guys?

I am sick. Consign me to hell in the Canadair Loser jet if you will. Work rules suck and pay scales are pitiful. Now come YOUR Mechanics and you bail on them TOO. Guess Steenland has your support come the 20TH. Good luck when it's your turn.

Psycho,

What would you do? We cannot thump our chests and say we are going on strike during AMFA negotiations. NWA alpa position is to not say one way or another what we will do.

Who else are we "bailing on"? You have to be kidding me if you think we bailed on your work rules and pay?

I personally think it stinks that the company wants to outsource more of our mechanic's jobs. I like seeing a NWA mech showing up when we are broke somewhere.

I remember all the "support" we got when we went on strike.

Dave B

 

[320AV8R]

NWA pilots are empowering NWA management, albeit indirectly.

Don't exactly know what you mean......of course, it's hard to see things clearly after all the years of abuse.

Anyone who has ANY excperience with the culture of NWA management knows that is a group that needs to be taken down a few notches not given more leverage.

WillowRunVortex and I agree on something !!!!

320AV8R

 

[ohplease!]

There are a select few on this board that take every opportunity to find fault with any and everything NWA and any of its pilots does.

But if it's 10:30 pm, and you're stuck in Bumfuctegypt, and a NWA airplane is the only way out, somehow their opinion changes; for the time being.

320AV8R

Back when you guy's walked out the last time, I was a mechanic at NWA. I do remember that our union tried to support the pilots. We were told by ALPA, "thanks but, no thanks." Consequently, you guy's walked and we got ferloughed....locked out....don't say the mechanics didn't support you. ALPA didn't support you.

All you union blowhards need to take a stance and stick with it.....not just when it suits your needs....you either are or you aren't....or you're just full of sh1t!!! I'm guessing its the later....


either way, don't blame the mechanics....at least they're willing to make a stand.

 

[bizicmo]

I'm not saying NWA should strike or not. I don't have a personal stake in the company. But I think any type of strike happens right now and there may not be a NWA to come back to afterwards. I don't see how that would help anyone there.

 

[castle bravo]

Psycho,

"I remember all the "support" we got when we went on strike. "



That's my question as well. Where were the mechanics in '98?.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Don't exactly know what you mean......of course, it's hard to see things clearly after all the years of abuse.

NWA management is banking that pilots will fly. That is easy to assume given the "body language" of NWA ALPA on the issue. If ALPA's position was sympathy with the Mech's, NWA management would most likely look for their 70 million elsewhere. I have also been told that the 50% reduction in "on the property " mechanics subsidized with "contract" maint. will probably result in a net zero savings for the company. ALPA knows all of this, but is choosing to stand back and watch like it is a baseball game or something. What happened to the people that knowingly let NWA loss 1 Billion dollars in 1998 to prove their point?

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Psycho,

"I remember all the "support" we got when we went on strike. "



That's my question as well. Where were the mechanics in '98?.

"Back when you guy's walked out the last time, I was a mechanic at NWA. I do remember that our union tried to support the pilots. We were told by ALPA, "thanks but, no thanks." Consequently, you guy's walked and we got ferloughed....locked out....don't say the mechanics didn't support you. ALPA didn't support you.

All you union blowhards need to take a stance and stick with it.....not just when it suits your needs....you either are or you aren't....or you're just full of sh1t!!! I'm guessing its the later....


either way, don't blame the mechanics....at least they're willing to make a stand"


This was 2 posts before yours , evidently you missed it.
WRV

 

[SMMustang]

You forgot C) Wait until NWA decides to strong arm you guys by hiring/training replacement pilots.

You can't strong arm a guy who doesn't get a paycheck from them though...I think I'll keep this AFRE$ gig for a bit longer...maybe 'til I'm, oh, say, 60.

 

[SMMustang]

I'm not saying NWA should strike or not. I don't have a personal stake in the company. But I think any type of strike happens right now and there may not be a NWA to come back to afterwards. I don't see how that would help anyone there.

Can I get an AMEN...

 

[SMMustang]

I have also been told that the 50% reduction in "on the property " mechanics subsidized with "contract" maint. will probably result in a net zero savings for the company.

Not sure I believe the witchcraft that produced these #s, but then again, I'm not an accountant.

WRV...I envy the mechanics, once NWA liquidates they can go on to be mechanics in some other field (ie auto mechanic) and make just as much $ if not more and have better working conditions. If I was them, I'd walk too, I just wouldn't expect to go back that is all.

 

[ohplease!]

Did you know that NWA's "plan" is to use contract mechanics to keep going if AMFA goes out?


WELL, did you know these contract "mechanics" are UN-LICENSED AUTO MECHANICS OR WORSE hired by ASIG?(fueling company).

You've already been getting sub-standard maintenance support from the contacted stuff already. You would be scared to death to see many of the things I saw done to NWA planes at contract maintenance facilities. Almost without fail, when one of these planes comes out of heavy checks from contractors, they have writeup after writeup (I've seen more than 100) on a sinlge A/C that have to be repaired by NWA mechanics!!! Not just small things mind you. MAJOR STRUCTURAL issues.

good luck with the auto guys working the gates for you....

 

[WillowRunVortex]

I'm not saying NWA should strike or not. I don't have a personal stake in the company. But I think any type of strike happens right now and there may not be a NWA to come back to afterwards. I don't see how that would help anyone there.

NWA pilots supporting the Mech's would eliminate the strike threat. As it stands now, half of the mech's will be fired and the other half are so tired of this crap that they are willing to ride the ship down rather than take a pay cut and watch their buddies leave, knowing next time its them when NWA goes to full contract maintainance.

 

[jetflier]

Where are you guys?

I am sick. Consign me to hell in the Canadair Loser jet if you will. Work rules suck and pay scales are pitiful. Now come YOUR Mechanics and you bail on them TOO. Guess Steenland has your support come the 20TH. Good luck when it's your turn.

No one is talking and revealing their hand from the NWA MEC.

IMO the NWA MEC will not honor the mechanics strike as the mechanic union did not honor the NWA pilots in 1998 during the lockout (strike).

Shutting down NWA entirely would cause CH11 to be immediate, so the Executives at NWA have contracted our nemisis, Champion Air to fly as many of NWA flights as possible if the pilots honor the AMFA strike.

ALPA says that NWA management says, "grieve it" if you don't like it........nice tone to our negotiations....eh....

I think NWA has the worst labor managers in the industry.

I doubt after all is said and done this fall , NWA will have many new exec and managers.

 

[Cactus-Wrench]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

You might also look at a AMT's toolbox on the next mx base overnight and particular attention to all of the 1/4" tooling, and the next time you get your 750I oil changed at the bmw dealership, look at a techs tool box there and the lack of anything small let alone not metric. There again with all the certifications of auto's today h/r doesn't really care how many rudder pcu's, vsv's, ffg's, mec's or spoiler mixers you've rigged, it doesn't carry over.

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!!!

There are times to go on strike, and other times not to. You do not go on strike during hard economic times for you company. This is a sinking ship and you believe that we should put more torpedoes in it? If the pilots wanted to put up a fight, they wouldn't have renegotiated their own contract. C'mon people think!

Unions are dead. Haven't you been reading about the AFL-CIO? The unions of this country have pretty much outsourced a lot of labor from this country to China! When you go to Wal-Mart and by the $5 made in China t-shirt instead of the $7 made in America tshirt, I guess I should call you a scab for that too!

The pilot profession is dead. Mechanics will be paid more that pilots eventually...why? Because their talents can be crossed over to other professions. Why should a mechanic work for $50/hour at Continental when he can go to BMW and get $65/hour with better working conditions. Pilots don't have that luxury, and therefore will be paid less and less in the future until you are pretty much just a bus driver.

Let's say the pilots did threaten a walkout...the company declares bankrupcy the day before the strike and the contract that we DID negotiate is tossed in favor of us making something less than what UA pilots are currently making...HOW WOULD THAT HELP THE PILOT INDUSTRY?

The only rational that I see other carriers wishing that the NWA pilots walk is to see NWA go Chapt 13 and create a lot of supply for their own selfish purposes.

Let's see what our options are

A) cross the mechanics line and hope the company stays afloat

B) Honor the picket line and start a new career as a Wal-Mart greeter.

Uh, Gee, I think I'll take option A.

 

[SMMustang]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

You might also look at a AMT's toolbox on the next mx base overnight and particular attention to all of the 1/4" tooling, and the next time you get your 750I oil changed at the bmw dealership, look at a techs tool box there and the lack of anything small let alone not metric. There again with all the certifications of auto's today h/r doesn't really care how many rudder pcu's, vsv's, ffg's, mec's or spoiler mixers you've rigged, it doesn't carry over.

Won't/Can't change my tune when I don't get a paycheck from them.

Being a mechanic is a toolset...it does carry over to some extent. Let's put it this way, when a mechanic and a pilot show up to get a job as an auto mechanic, who's going to get hired?

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Won't/Can't change my tune when I don't get a paycheck from them.

Being a mechanic is a toolset...it does carry over to some extent. Let's put it this way, when a mechanic and a pilot show up to get a job as an auto mechanic, who's going to get hired?

It doesnt matter if mech's can get other jobs,,,or the fact most pilots have trouble changing a light bulb in their home. The point is whats right is right and what's wrong is wrong. ALPA's mumbo jumbo, spin ,spin,spin, "here's why were not supporting the mech's" rhetoric doesnt change that fact.

 

[dbrownie]

Perhaps if NWA ALPA said next week to the pilot group, unfortunately 50% of you are going to be let go, because we find wet leasing more attractive to our bottom line and the remaining 50% of you will need to take a 26 percent paycut,

Your tune might change!!

Cactus-Wrench,

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.

I think it sucks what is happening to the Mechs but the pilots are not going to solve their problem.

NWA Alpa had a independant financial study done by a outside company we offered the results to AMFA, AMFA said "no thanks". AMFA is playing hardball with a bunch of cornered rats and is going to be bit.

Mechanics have been lining up to become replacement workers. I thought it was just pilots who had no souls.

Flight attendants are in the same crappy boat. Replacement workers are being trained as we speak. It stinks.

Dave B

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Cactus-Wrench,

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.



Dave B

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

 

[dbrownie]

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

WillowRunVortex,

Nah, My DHC8 time was done at Allegheny.

I also do not think Mesaba or Pinnacle have "stolen" anything. They are delt the hand of flying by the morons in MSP.

For what it is worth I think we are lucky to have Mesaba and Pinnacle. The pilots I have delt with have always been supportive of us.

They like us are just along for the ride.

Dave B

 

[crashpad]

The mech wiil get what they want because they have a strong union and solidarity. The additional cost will simply come out of the pilots salary/pension when NW files chapter 11 and copies UAL. Simple.

 

[furloughed dude]

The way I see it is that AMFA had the opportunity to deal with the company to some extent. They decided to play hard ball and now the company wants to bust the union. After the pilots took their first round of pay cuts, they hoped the rest of the unions would also make concessions since the company was losing millions. They not only wouldn't deal, they told the pilots to get out of their business.

Now the company is giving AMFA an offer they can't accept. It is hard to get a majority vote when you are wanting to boot 53% of their workgroup. I can't see any of these 53% voting "Yes, I am giving up my job, but I sure hope NWA makes it." The company is forcing a strike and they will outsource most of their jobs. Welcome to America..

IMO, the mechs had an opportunity to get a much better deal, but thumbed their nose at the company. Obviously, NWA plays hard ball. They are making the flight attendents train replacement workers in case they support the strike or refuse to deal.

I don't think the pilots or flight attendents will support the strike. It will be interesting to see how much operations will be affected. I am sure they already have contracts in place at outstations, so the real problem will be the hubs.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

The way I see it is that AMFA had the opportunity to deal with the company to some extent. They decided to play hard ball and now the company wants to bust the union. After the pilots took their first round of pay cuts, they hoped the rest of the unions would also make concessions since the company was losing millions. They not only wouldn't deal, they told the pilots to get out of their business.

Now the company is giving AMFA an offer they can't accept. It is hard to get a majority vote when you are wanting to boot 53% of their workgroup. I can't see any of these 53% voting "Yes, I am giving up my job, but I sure hope NWA makes it." The company is forcing a strike and they will outsource most of their jobs. Welcome to America..

IMO, the mechs had an opportunity to get a much better deal, but thumbed their nose at the company. Obviously, NWA plays hard ball. They are making the flight attendents train replacement workers in case they support the strike or refuse to deal.

I don't think the pilots or flight attendents will support the strike. It will be interesting to see how much operations will be affected. I am sure they already have contracts in place at outstations, so the real problem will be the hubs.

In the old days we played hardball too. Write-ups would have skyrocketed, tires would have worn out much faster, on time? forget it. Down-line sick, etc, etc. We're making our own bed folks. NWA management is dreaming up a way to use contract/replacement pilots, why wouldnt they? Obviously the pilot group got their balls snipped. Who WOULD except a 53% reduction? That is ludacris.