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NWA MEC Buffoons

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Occam-

Using emotional intelligence (EI) is very desirable. Unfortunately, too many of us are spring loaded to self preservation at anothers expense. Its the Amercian way.

We operate in Win/Lose mindsets. The ability to function in a Win/Win methodology is lost on too many.

This NWA/DAL issues is like simultaneously reading Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies.
 
It was publicly posted by the author on our Web Board yesterday, which meant it you guys already had it. Next.

Quick Fly:
Activate the spin machine to high cycle. Its slowing down!
Your guys' JTF should keep the "baghdad bob" style of information. Its quite entertaining, it just needs to be written on softer paper!

737
 
I smell chaos as the dweebs running this industry panic in the face of rising fuel costs and tighter access to capital.

I smell panic from the DAL MEC - sort of like when the Mighty Oz no longer intimidates Dorothy and Co. and the curtain is pulled aside - and hopefully they prove to be nice guys in the end as well.

Some of the posters here are the flying monkeys....
 
I haven't posted on this thread, but thanks for the acknowledgment of of my super-important insight and influence!

Your welcome.

Now back off.

I have been, or haven't you noticed?

There's nothing to gain by being a Level 3 turd on this website to pilots whom, like it or not, are going to have a significant role to play in the future success (or lack of it) in your career at Delta.

Agreed. I might only add that you address them to that "fact" as well.


Treat that as a fact.

It may or may not be. Right now it is your opinion--which I solicited. While we are throwing them out, I will add one. Time is short. These games are getting tiresome to the powers that be. There are things that can happen which will change the dynamics of this transaction significantly. This is not a threat. Far from it. I will reiterate that the goal is a welcoming of the NWA pilots to the ranks of Delta and to negotiate a fair and equitable contract and seniority list. Both sides need to have this goal. Right now, only one side is honoring it. There will come a time when this side will be shut out again. Deadlines are real. I would think that lesson had been learned already.


While you're at it, here are a few more:

1. We can get this done, despite the infantile ranting of the misguided...such as the one that started this thread.

Yes

2. Both sides have a made mistakes. BOTH. When I write my after-action report on this, your rebuttal will include comments such as "Yeah, but...", and "We only did that because...". Here's a pretty good rule-of-thumb for previewing your actions before you make them: Is this going to help the process? If your answer is anything other than an unequivocal "Yes", then you're hurting yourself. If it takes you a few seconds to rationalize your actions, then you might wanna double-check your Motives gyro. It may be precessing.

Both sides have NOT made mistakes. This is what the Veritas are for. I am but a FI version of a Verita, quiet until it is time to clarify. You admit yourself the disfunction of the NWA powers that be. The wrong thing can be accepted as gospel if given enough press. The Delta MEC has been on this from the start. Every move has been expected, and appropriately countered. Screaming arbitration over and over is not going to cut it.


3. This process is unique, which makes it vulnerable to ego-driven assumptions and conclusions. It's unique because one MEC can't negotiate directly with management. They have to go through the other MEC. That has led to an element of mistrust that's normally reserved for our work with management, but has crept into the pilot-to-pilot negotiations.

This one MEC has their own management to negotiate with. The problem is that their management has nothing to negotiate. You simply cannot negotiate with Delta management. The mistrust stems from their previous experiences with themselves. Fair enough. Trust must be gained. In the meantime, the clock is ticking, oil is rising, and ALPA merger policy is looming. Grandstanding in front of congress, and releasing half-truths and outright lies are NOT means to an end.

4. A few of the individuals "in the room" are not well-suited to the task. They truck in conflict. The two MEC Chairmen, and their "inner-circle" are solid, and can get this done. Ditto the Negotiating Committees. Just as we have some posters here who just can let it slide...there are pilots involved who seem safety-wired to the "Screw those guys!" position.

Agreed. What they do not realize is that it may be their undoing in the grand scheme. It is a VERY dangerous position to be safety wired to. BTW, I have let much slide in the past few months--so has the Delta MEC. Meanwhile, the position of some is akin to poking at an unexploded land mine with a stick.

5. Perspective and priorities can't be forced. The top third of our list has an "inversion". It's not your fault, and I don't expect you to like it...but I expect you to accept it as a bona fide issue that must be addressed. Likewise, the concerns of your neo-senior (211 to 2500) are legitimate, especially in comparison to their NWA counterparts who still have a sizable frozen DB. Then there are the concerns of the bottom 25% of both groups who are hoping their issues aren't ignored by their leadership. We can't expect the other side to share our prioritization of those issues, but we can't trivialize how the other side does it.

What we CAN do, however, is look at how those types of positions have played out in recent times though. Due diligence of the informed commands such an action

6. I smell smoke. Now would be a good time to focus on getting the bucket brigade together, instead of arguing over who-jostled-who on the way over. If you feel compelled find the villain(s) responsible for this effort not being completed successfully by now, check that your Self Control switch isn't in Override, and don't miss the opportunity to keep your pie hole shut. I'll do the same, promise.


Agreed, to a point. Remember, this isn't going to get solved here. Your facts, should be immediately emailed to your powers that be. That's why I called you out, it was time for a little levity.
 
Fly4Hire,

C'mon, brother!

Knock it off!

Let it go, and keep your focus. Tit-for-tat communications aren't important. Getting a good deal and a fair list are.
 
Agreed, to a point. Remember, this isn't going to get solved here. Your facts, should be immediately emailed to your powers that be. That's why I called you out, it was time for a little levity.

They were aimed at you. Your goal appears to be more toward "counting coup" than soliciting levity. See also "Agenda".

WRT: "Both sides have NOT made mistakes. This is what the Veritas are for. I am but a FI version of a Verita, quiet until it is time to clarify. You admit yourself the disfunction of the NWA powers that be. The wrong thing can be accepted as gospel if given enough press. The Delta MEC has been on this from the start. Every move has been expected, and appropriately countered."

Helping: You're doing it wrong.

But thanks for being Illustration "A" in how serious the problems are. To show you the true measure of restraint and fraternity, I will now NOT bitch-slap you with pure, inarguable facts that showcase the mistakes made by the DAL leadership.
 
Occam,

Great posts. Great insight. Explain please as your superior view and unemotional break down of the events obviously does not place you on "the line" day in and out.

Mgmt? ALPA? Both? Or in recovery from either?

Just curious.

Ed
 
They were aimed at you. Your goal appears to be more toward "counting coup" than soliciting levity. See also "Agenda".

WRT: "Both sides have NOT made mistakes. This is what the Veritas are for. I am but a FI version of a Verita, quiet until it is time to clarify. You admit yourself the disfunction of the NWA powers that be. The wrong thing can be accepted as gospel if given enough press. The Delta MEC has been on this from the start. Every move has been expected, and appropriately countered."

Helping: You're doing it wrong.

But thanks for being Illustration "A" in how serious the problems are. To show you the true measure of restraint and fraternity, I will now NOT bitch-slap you with pure, inarguable facts that showcase the mistakes made by the DAL leadership.

There is no bitch slapping to be had. It's very simple. From the start, I have said that with me you get what you give. The MEC appears to be adopting that strategy. Agreements have been made to stop this BS assault tactic press crap, and then violated by your guys within minutes. The Delta guys are merely tired of acting as punching bags. I would think that the last few veritas would have you understanding that. I guess I was wrong on that account.

The NWA panel claims the high road, then undercuts. They claim to desire negotiating, then run around screaming for arbitration.

Sorry. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Believe me, there is MUCH more to say, and restraint has been applied--for quite a while now.
 
I haven't posted on this thread, but thanks for the acknowledgment of of my super-important insight and influence!

Now back off.

There's nothing to gain by being a Level 3 turd on this website to pilots whom, like it or not, are going to have a significant role to play in the future success (or lack of it) in your career at Delta.

Treat that as a fact.

While you're at it, here are a few more:

1. We can get this done, despite the infantile ranting of the misguided...such as the one that started this thread.

2. Both sides have a made mistakes. BOTH. When I write my after-action report on this, your rebuttal will include comments such as "Yeah, but...", and "We only did that because...". Here's a pretty good rule-of-thumb for previewing your actions before you make them: Is this going to help the process? If your answer is anything other than an unequivocal "Yes", then you're hurting yourself. If it takes you a few seconds to rationalize your actions, then you might wanna double-check your Motives gyro. It may be precessing.

3. This process is unique, which makes it vulnerable to ego-driven assumptions and conclusions. It's unique because one MEC can't negotiate directly with management. They have to go through the other MEC. That has led to an element of mistrust that's normally reserved for our work with management, but has crept into the pilot-to-pilot negotiations.

4. A few of the individuals "in the room" are not well-suited to the task. They truck in conflict. The two MEC Chairmen, and their "inner-circle" are solid, and can get this done. Ditto the Negotiating Committees. Just as we have some posters here who just can let it slide...there are pilots involved who seem safety-wired to the "Screw those guys!" position.

5. Perspective and priorities can't be forced. The top third of our list has an "inversion". It's not your fault, and I don't expect you to like it...but I expect you to accept it as a bona fide issue that must be addressed. Likewise, the concerns of your neo-senior (211 to 2500) are legitimate, especially in comparison to their NWA counterparts who still have a sizable frozen DB. Then there are the concerns of the bottom 25% of both groups who are hoping their issues aren't ignored by their leadership. We can't expect the other side to share our prioritization of those issues, but we can't trivialize how the other side does it.

6. I smell smoke. Now would be a good time to focus on getting the bucket brigade together, instead of arguing over who-jostled-who on the way over. If you feel compelled find the villain(s) responsible for this effort not being completed successfully by now, check that your Self Control switch isn't in Override, and don't miss the opportunity to keep your pie hole shut. I'll do the same, promise.

Fantastic Post
 
Occam,

Great posts. Great insight. Explain please as your superior view and unemotional break down of the events obviously does not place you on "the line" day in and out.

Mgmt? ALPA? Both? Or in recovery from either?

Just curious.

Ed

"Mgmt"? NEVER.

"ALPA"? Neck deep once, but recovering nicely.

A serendipitous alignment of factors has put me in a position to know more about what's going on than I ever intended. My life would be easier if I were clueless, as it appears to be for many posters here.

I fly the line most of the time, and teach in the box some. All that means is I get a zesty mix of crappy trips, and the icky rumor-filled stuff that grows in the petri dish we call "NATCO".

My "secret agenda" is to keep both sides talking to each other. My superpower is my clarifying insight (:rolleyes:) that tells me both sides are being led by good guys who, despite efforts by some to paint them otherwise, are team builders. Stevens and Moak are focused on the goal. They deserve our support and our discretion.
 
I would think that the last few veritas would have you understanding that. I guess I was wrong on that account.

"Wrong"? I have it on good authority that DAL guys never make mistakes. Other than the dozen or so that I'm personally familiar with, I mean.

I'm asking you to join me in elevating the dialog. There is more to be gained for us if we focus on the large, important "positives" than wallowing in the shallow muck of petty irritants that are a by-product of this process.
 
Puff:

You are correct that incredible restraint has been shown. But, that's good head work - maintaining one's dignity and restraint.

When you see your opponent is in a hole and dirt is flying out of the top, just let him keep digging.

The longer this drags on, the more Compass and Mesaba deliveries pile up, the more pressure gets but on the old gas guzzlers and the less can get blamed on the Delta pilots.

Delta will most likely start hiring in August with a larger advanced entitlement coming up. That little batch of 777 deliveries will have to be staffed around that time.

I'm in no hurry to merge seniority lists, are you?

As the trains leave the station, it is up to the NWA pilots and their leadership when they want to get on board. The NWA pilots obviously will resist anything they feel is a cram down. IMHO we should play nice and wait them out.

This guy knows...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Em7uB-KN0&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQPFRE5OFUE&feature=related
 
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