NWA Fleet Reductions.

[737 Pylt]

Can anyone at NW confirm this: I got this from a friend.

NWA won court permission to canx leases on 106 planes including 49 Saab turboprops, 27 A-320’s & A319’s, 12 B747’s and 15 CRJ’s subleased to Pinnacle Airlines. (11/1)

OUCH!!
737

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Yup, that's legit...

 

[mamba20]

Curious what that means for Mesaba. How many are in there fleet. Best of luck you guys.

 

[General Lee]

That doesn't mean they will all go away, though. I thought that allowance was for NW to drop them IF the lessors didn't agree to new terms. I don't think they are gone yet.

Those 27 A320s and A319s could be used by many Asian airlines that are expanding and willing to pay higher rates. I think those planes are high risk to leave.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Typical management tactics for saying the "sky's falling, we need money from you now..." We're all hanging tight until we hear exactly what NW has in store for us...

Well, after all the aircraft stated in the filing are "parked" we'd be left with 16 planes... Something like 14 Saabs and 2 CRJs... But take all of this news with a grain of salt for the time being...

 

[320AV8R]

NWA has A320s that cost $400,000 a month......and some that cost $180,000 a month.

If they can't re-negotiate the higher lease rates, they will return the aircraft, be it a 320, 757, etc....

320AV8R

 

[Diesel-9]

Exactly. Nobody is going to take them at that rate when they are coming off the line around $200k/month. All part of the poker game in progress, especially with GE Capital. NWA has 7 or 8 320's delivered next year and 6 or more 330's. All were pre-financed.

 

[iaflyer]

I agree with the General. The A320s are in high demand - this morning I was perusing Aviation Week and they had a chart comparing in service airplanes vs parked. I think the A340 was the lowest precentage not flying at 0% parked while the A320 wasn't far behind at 1% parked.

The point I'm making I guess is that the I don't think NWA can force the leassors of those planes to reduce the payments much. I think airlines like Spirit or other low fare carriers in India or SE Asia would snap them right up.

Now the CRJs? I think those are going to get plentiful quick. So they might be able to lower those rates.

iaflyer

 

[mynameisjim]

Exactly. Nobody is going to take them at that rate when they are coming off the line around $200k/month. All part of the poker game in progress, especially with GE Capital. NWA has 7 or 8 320's delivered next year and 6 or more 330's. All were pre-financed.

The 320 deliveries have been postponed. The 330's have been postponed as well, but they're still trying to get them on time; they have to work it out with Airbus and the other creditors first.

They've said to expect the DC-10 to stick around longer than first suspected.

 

[dbrownie]

The point I'm making I guess is that the I don't think NWA can force the leassors of those planes to reduce the payments much. I think airlines like Spirit or other low fare carriers in India or SE Asia would snap them right up.

Now the CRJs? I think those are going to get plentiful quick. So they might be able to lower those rates.

iaflyer

I think the lease rates from Airbus are probably cheap, but I doubt anyone is paying more than NWA, some proably less. We should try to get the same deal others are getting.

Dave B

 

[320AV8R]

The 320 deliveries have been postponed. The 330's have been postponed as well, but they're still trying to get them on time; they have to work it out with Airbus and the other creditors first.

They've said to expect the DC-10 to stick around longer than first suspected.

Jim-

What's your source ?

I haven't heard of any 320 or 330 deliveries being delayed. The financing was supposed to be in place and attractive.

320AV8R

 

[mynameisjim]

Source? I was supposed to go pick up one of the 320's, a 319 actually. All of our orders for those are on hold until further notice. I think a while.

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the 330 delivery timetable, but I understand it to be the same. I know upper management wants them quickly though, and is doing everything they can to get the financing back.

 

[filejw]

The fuel burn on a 330 is about 50000#'s less than a Ten on AMS MSP trip.I wouldn't plan on a DC 10 being around much .= about 15000$

 

[320AV8R]

Source? I was supposed to go pick up one of the 320's, a 319 actually. All of our orders for those are on hold until further notice. I think a while.

Great-

But who canned the delivery ? Can you post any supporting info ?

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the 330 delivery timetable, but I understand it to be the same. I know upper management wants them quickly though, and is doing everything they can to get the financing back.

The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions.

320AV8R

 

[Beetle007]

The fuel burn on a 330 is about 50000#'s less than a Ten on AMS MSP trip.I wouldn't plan on a DC 10 being around much .= about 15000$

How about the fuel burn of a 757 with winglets from BOS to AMS and other international routes? This is the plan. Of course this won't start until they figure out which 757's they are keeping. Currently it is a shell game. Moving aircraft to the desert then moving them back into service.

People like to look at the huge number of leases NWA wants to "possibly terminate." This number will eventually include most (if not all) of the NWA aircraft. It has almost no correlation to how many many aircraft NWA is actually willing to lose. And, even if NWA loses some aircraft they can still be replaced by aircraft from other airlines at better rate. For example, the Mesaba Saabs. Even if NWA terminates the Sab leases for Mesaba, Mesaba can get Saabs from another airline with a better rate.

 

[filejw]

The 300 could do BOS AMS now if they were smart.Put that 330 on a Ten route for the winter and save some more cash.Could do AMS BOS 85% of the time.Want some more money saving ideas ? LOL

 

[Chris9702l]

Stopping RJ deliveries

"The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions."

Can't believe you don't know that the CRJ deliveries have been stopped at Mesaba. They were stopped after we got two aircraft. I am pretty sure Pinnacle is done getting all their CRJs.

 

[320AV8R]

"The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions."

Can't believe you don't know that the CRJ deliveries have been stopped at Mesaba. They were stopped after we got two aircraft. I am pretty sure Pinnacle is done getting all their CRJs.

According to your own post, I was talking about Pinnacle.....not Mesaba.

Yea, the Mesaba CRJs have stopped; they want to return a bunch of Saabs and AVROs, too. The airline will be a lot smaller.

320AV8R

 

[mynameisjim]

320AV8R-

I don't have anything where I can "prove my case". What I can tell you is that my group does the deliveries, and we don't have any scheduled for this year, and none budgeted for next year. All of our deliveries are on hold (320, 330, CRJ).

What I have heard is that we have some sort of credit still available from Airbus, and the big guys are trying to decide how to use that to still get 330s. But as of now everything is on hold.

Also for the positioning for lease renegotiations, I think there are 10-15 Airbi in the desert this week. Many going in and out at the moment.

Maybe I could provide more info in a PM?

 

[n5374f]

Champion to get some of the A320's or be the NEWCO What do you think ???????

 

[n5374f]

If rumors are started this forum is a good place to start them. Only God and Mgt knows the master plan. But what ever it is it wioo not be good for ALPA as a whole. Frank must be back behind the scenes.

 

[zonker]

If rumors are started this forum is a good place to start them. Only God and Mgt knows the master plan. But what ever it is it wioo not be good for ALPA as a whole. Frank must be back behind the scenes.

His protege is front and center:

Last year, in the midst of concession talks with the pilots union, Steenland hired Barry Simon as the company’s executive vice president and general counsel. Simon was a top executive in the Seabury Group, a New York consulting firm whose “restructuring” clients have included Air Canada, US Airways, America West Airlines and Continental.
Simon earned his credentials as an executive at Continental and Eastern airlines, where he served under corporate raider and union-buster Frank Lorenzo. In 1983 Continental filed for bankruptcy—despite the airline’s $60 million in cash reserves—in order to exploit a provision in the Bankruptcy Code allowing Lorenzo to abrogate his contracts with the unions. Simon directed Continental’s legal strategy when it emerged from bankruptcy a second time in 1991.
Simon also played a leading role in the bankruptcy of Eastern Airlines, which stopped flying in 1991 following the bitter strike by unionized mechanics. At the time, Lorenzo and his team stripped the airline of valuable assets and sold them at fire-sale prices to Continental.
The 1980s and 1990s saw the emergence of junk-bond dealers and corporate raiders in the airline industry like Lorenzo and Carl Icahn (who bankrupted Trans World Airlines, among others, and who is now worth $5.8 billion—no. 55 on the list of the world’s richest people).
Today, after nearly a quarter of a century of betrayals by the trade union bureaucracy (from the striking air traffic controllers in 1981 to the present scabbing organized by the airline unions against the striking Northwest mechanics), the corporate executives running the airlines feel even less restraint than their predecessors did when slashing workers’ jobs, wages and benefits and looting company assets to enrich themselves.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/sep2005/nwa-s19.shtml

 

[Beetle007]

Jim-

What's your source ?

I haven't heard of any 320 or 330 deliveries being delayed. The financing was supposed to be in place and attractive.

320AV8R

I remembered this post from a while ago. Looks like things are back on track for the 330s and 319s (pending BK judge approval). I'm sure Mynameisjim would have updated us if he wouldn't have left =)

 

[Diesel-9]

2 A-330-300's and 4 A-330-200's arrive in 2006. 7 -300's and 1 -200 in 2007. These aircraft were prefinanced and were just renegotiated. Also rumor of adding to the 7 narrowbody Airbus deliveries next year.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Also the 787 program in 2008. NewCo to replace DC-9's and a whole new fleet of regionals. Doesn't look like fleet reduction to me.

 

[mynameisjim]

I remembered this post from a while ago. Looks like things are back on track for the 330s and 319s (pending BK judge approval). I'm sure Mynameisjim would have updated us if he wouldn't have left =)

Oh you sure you're gonna take all my delivery flights now, whore.

But I'm flying full time now punk.

 

[Beetle007]

They forgot to mention the 2 319s we picked up saturday.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh68871_2005-12-23_22-31-31_n23317695_newsml

 

[mynameisjim]

Merry Christmas Beetle

Hope you enjoyed your trip across the pond!

 

[Beetle007]

Merry Christmas...I tried calling you but the phone went straight to voice.
One of the higher ups on our flight (VP of flight ops) knew you had left and where you went. Not that I had any pressure to make a good landing =)

 

[NuGuy]

Also the 787 program in 2008. NewCo to replace DC-9's and a whole new fleet of regionals. Doesn't look like fleet reduction to me.

NewCo will never happen in the form management wants. There's going to be an ugly confrontation around January 16th. The NWA MEC drew the line in the sand all public and messy in the Star & Sickle, and you don't back down from that unless you don't want your union job anymore.

The pension is out of everyone's hands now, so that stick is gone.

Nu