NWA Fleet Reductions.

737 Pylt

Banned
Um....Floats anyone??
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Posts
3,085
Total Time
enough
Can anyone at NW confirm this: I got this from a friend.

NWA won court permission to canx leases on 106 planes including 49 Saab turboprops, 27 A-320’s & A319’s, 12 B747’s and 15 CRJ’s subleased to Pinnacle Airlines. (11/1)

OUCH!!
737
 

mamba20

Do what now?
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Posts
1,030
Total Time
000000
Curious what that means for Mesaba. How many are in there fleet. Best of luck you guys.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
That doesn't mean they will all go away, though. I thought that allowance was for NW to drop them IF the lessors didn't agree to new terms. I don't think they are gone yet.

Those 27 A320s and A319s could be used by many Asian airlines that are expanding and willing to pay higher rates. I think those planes are high risk to leave.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Workin'Stiff

Fire in 'da hole!!!!
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Posts
775
Total Time
Lots..
Typical management tactics for saying the "sky's falling, we need money from you now..." We're all hanging tight until we hear exactly what NW has in store for us...

Well, after all the aircraft stated in the filing are "parked" we'd be left with 16 planes... Something like 14 Saabs and 2 CRJs... But take all of this news with a grain of salt for the time being...
 

320AV8R

DUMP ALPA
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Posts
505
Total Time
2 much
NWA has A320s that cost $400,000 a month......and some that cost $180,000 a month.

If they can't re-negotiate the higher lease rates, they will return the aircraft, be it a 320, 757, etc....

320AV8R
 

Diesel-9

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Posts
527
Total Time
18,885
Exactly. Nobody is going to take them at that rate when they are coming off the line around $200k/month. All part of the poker game in progress, especially with GE Capital. NWA has 7 or 8 320's delivered next year and 6 or more 330's. All were pre-financed.
 

iaflyer

Haulin the folks...
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
436
Total Time
7,400
I agree with the General. The A320s are in high demand - this morning I was perusing Aviation Week and they had a chart comparing in service airplanes vs parked. I think the A340 was the lowest precentage not flying at 0% parked while the A320 wasn't far behind at 1% parked.

The point I'm making I guess is that the I don't think NWA can force the leassors of those planes to reduce the payments much. I think airlines like Spirit or other low fare carriers in India or SE Asia would snap them right up.

Now the CRJs? I think those are going to get plentiful quick. So they might be able to lower those rates.

iaflyer
 

mynameisjim

Don't try this at home
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
842
Total Time
Paycut
Diesel-9 said:
Exactly. Nobody is going to take them at that rate when they are coming off the line around $200k/month. All part of the poker game in progress, especially with GE Capital. NWA has 7 or 8 320's delivered next year and 6 or more 330's. All were pre-financed.
The 320 deliveries have been postponed. The 330's have been postponed as well, but they're still trying to get them on time; they have to work it out with Airbus and the other creditors first.

They've said to expect the DC-10 to stick around longer than first suspected.
 

dbrownie

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2004
Posts
261
Total Time
17,000
iaflyer said:
The point I'm making I guess is that the I don't think NWA can force the leassors of those planes to reduce the payments much. I think airlines like Spirit or other low fare carriers in India or SE Asia would snap them right up.

Now the CRJs? I think those are going to get plentiful quick. So they might be able to lower those rates.

iaflyer
I think the lease rates from Airbus are probably cheap, but I doubt anyone is paying more than NWA, some proably less. We should try to get the same deal others are getting.

Dave B
 

320AV8R

DUMP ALPA
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Posts
505
Total Time
2 much
mynameisjim said:
The 320 deliveries have been postponed. The 330's have been postponed as well, but they're still trying to get them on time; they have to work it out with Airbus and the other creditors first.

They've said to expect the DC-10 to stick around longer than first suspected.
Jim-

What's your source ?

I haven't heard of any 320 or 330 deliveries being delayed. The financing was supposed to be in place and attractive.

320AV8R
 

mynameisjim

Don't try this at home
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
842
Total Time
Paycut
Source? I was supposed to go pick up one of the 320's, a 319 actually. All of our orders for those are on hold until further notice. I think a while.

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the 330 delivery timetable, but I understand it to be the same. I know upper management wants them quickly though, and is doing everything they can to get the financing back.
 

filejw

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Posts
1,135
Total Time
25000
The fuel burn on a 330 is about 50000#'s less than a Ten on AMS MSP trip.I wouldn't plan on a DC 10 being around much .= about 15000$
 

320AV8R

DUMP ALPA
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Posts
505
Total Time
2 much
mynameisjim said:
Source? I was supposed to go pick up one of the 320's, a 319 actually. All of our orders for those are on hold until further notice. I think a while.
Great-

But who canned the delivery ? Can you post any supporting info ?

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the 330 delivery timetable, but I understand it to be the same. I know upper management wants them quickly though, and is doing everything they can to get the financing back.
The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions.

320AV8R
 

Beetle007

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2001
Posts
743
Total Time
4500+
filejw said:
The fuel burn on a 330 is about 50000#'s less than a Ten on AMS MSP trip.I wouldn't plan on a DC 10 being around much .= about 15000$
How about the fuel burn of a 757 with winglets from BOS to AMS and other international routes? This is the plan. Of course this won't start until they figure out which 757's they are keeping. Currently it is a shell game. Moving aircraft to the desert then moving them back into service.

People like to look at the huge number of leases NWA wants to "possibly terminate." This number will eventually include most (if not all) of the NWA aircraft. It has almost no correlation to how many many aircraft NWA is actually willing to lose. And, even if NWA loses some aircraft they can still be replaced by aircraft from other airlines at better rate. For example, the Mesaba Saabs. Even if NWA terminates the Sab leases for Mesaba, Mesaba can get Saabs from another airline with a better rate.
 
Last edited:

filejw

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Posts
1,135
Total Time
25000
The 300 could do BOS AMS now if they were smart.Put that 330 on a Ten route for the winter and save some more cash.Could do AMS BOS 85% of the time.Want some more money saving ideas ? LOL
 

Chris9702l

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2003
Posts
68
Total Time
7,000
Stopping RJ deliveries

"The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions."

Can't believe you don't know that the CRJ deliveries have been stopped at Mesaba. They were stopped after we got two aircraft. I am pretty sure Pinnacle is done getting all their CRJs.
 

320AV8R

DUMP ALPA
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Posts
505
Total Time
2 much
Chris9702l said:
"The $$$$ were in place, and as far as I know, the deliveries should be as planned; just like the RJs we bought for Pinnacle. CH 11 doesn't cancel the financing. I have not heard of any delivery disruptions."

Can't believe you don't know that the CRJ deliveries have been stopped at Mesaba. They were stopped after we got two aircraft. I am pretty sure Pinnacle is done getting all their CRJs.
According to your own post, I was talking about Pinnacle.....not Mesaba.

Yea, the Mesaba CRJs have stopped; they want to return a bunch of Saabs and AVROs, too. The airline will be a lot smaller.

320AV8R
 

mynameisjim

Don't try this at home
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
842
Total Time
Paycut
320AV8R-

I don't have anything where I can "prove my case". What I can tell you is that my group does the deliveries, and we don't have any scheduled for this year, and none budgeted for next year. All of our deliveries are on hold (320, 330, CRJ).

What I have heard is that we have some sort of credit still available from Airbus, and the big guys are trying to decide how to use that to still get 330s. But as of now everything is on hold.

Also for the positioning for lease renegotiations, I think there are 10-15 Airbi in the desert this week. Many going in and out at the moment.

Maybe I could provide more info in a PM?
 

n5374f

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Posts
63
Total Time
7700
Champion to get some of the A320's or be the NEWCO What do you think ???????
 
Top