Don't know how you got that from my post.
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NWA/DAL Seniority list..
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Don't know how you got that from my post.
Well details are from earlier today. No fences no dynamic list. It's a relative category list. Close to what DAPLA proposed.
AirportBum
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imp:
Occam's Razor
Risible...ALWAYS risible
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PuffDriver
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There is a fence, it is 5 years for 747, 787 and 777 only from SOC. We have a list included with the award. All pilots hired after April 14, 2008 DOH at the bottom. Furloughs from appropriate side, whoever parks the airplanes until 1 year after SOC--DC-9 perked=DC-9 furloughs. Any 757 parked resulting in furloughs are shared equally.
Initial gut is that NWA pilots will not be happy. However, there is a LOT of non-premium wide body flying that is able to be bid by NWA pilots immediately. Likewise DAL pilots can bid onto the A330, commuters from DAL/NWA bases should be happy.
I can live with it, not gonna complain with where I'm at. IT'S OVER!!!!
GuppyWN
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Panel rules on seniority for Delta, NWA pilots
Monday December 8, 11:49 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Airlines Writer Pilots at Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines get panel's decision on seniority integration
ATLANTA (AP) -- An arbitration panel ruled Monday that the seniority lists of Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines pilots should be integrated based on pilots' status and aircraft category.
The three-member panel's decision, which affects roughly 12,000 pilots, is binding and effective immediately. The ruling, at least as far as methodology, appeared to be a win for pre-merger Delta pilots.
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if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();window.yzq_d['yfOIJkPDoHM-']='&U=13fm0qqlm%2fN%3dyfOIJkPDoHM-%2fC%3d628474.11775752.12480902.1383221%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d5140298%2fV%3d1';Atlanta-based Delta, which became the world's biggest carrier when it acquired Northwest on Oct. 29, wants to smoothly integrate the two work forces as part of its effort to achieve significant cost savings from the deal. A joint pilot contract was reached previously, but seniority had remained unresolved until Monday.
Pilots value their seniority. Those at the top of the list get first choice on vacations, the best routes and the bigger planes that they get paid more for flying.
During closed-door hearings before the panel, a lawyer for Delta argued that Delta pilots' seniority list should be merged with Northwest based on pilots' status and aircraft category, while a lawyer for Northwest pilots insisted the fair and equitable method would be to merge the lists based on pilots' date of hire.
In a memo to Delta pilots just before midnight Monday, the head of Delta's pilots union, Lee Moak, said the foundation of the panel's integration method is "ratioed status and category" with a "rational treatment for the minor attrition differences that exist between the two pilot groups."
Northwest pilots tend to be older than Delta pilots because many senior pilots retired from Delta during the run-up to the airline's 2005 bankruptcy filing.
Delta and Northwest will not be able to fly as one carrier under the Delta name until Delta obtains a single operating certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration, which it hopes to have by the end of next year. It also has labor issues to resolve with other employee groups, such as flight attendants and ground workers. Northwest is heavily unionized, while Delta's pilots are the carrier's only major work group to be in a union.
Delta pilots attorney Jeffrey R. Freund had told the panel that to integrate the two pilot lists, the first step should be to place the aircraft on both sides of the combined company in broad categories and then look at each pilot's status on those aircraft.
For example, Freund said, there could be international wide-body captains and narrow-body first officers. He said that whatever the categories are, the appropriate process would be to then count the pilots in each status and category who held those positions on a particular date, on the respective seniority lists.
So, if there were 200 Delta international wide-body captains and 100 Northwest international wide-body captains, the top 300 pilots from the two seniority lists would be distributed on the merged seniority list on the basis of two Delta pilots and then one Northwest pilot, and so on down the line. Freund said the pilots in other aircraft categories should be distributed on the merged list the same way.
But Daniel M. Katz, an attorney for Northwest pilots, had told the arbitration panel that the only truly fair way to integrate the two lists so that pilots on each side understand they are where they belong is to do it based on the date they were hired.
The arbitration panel -- California labor attorney Fredric Horowitz, attorney Dana Eischen and veteran arbitrator Richard Bloch -- was called in to resolve the seniority issue after the pilots at both airlines reached an impasse.
Monday December 8, 11:49 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Airlines Writer Pilots at Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines get panel's decision on seniority integration
ATLANTA (AP) -- An arbitration panel ruled Monday that the seniority lists of Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines pilots should be integrated based on pilots' status and aircraft category.
The three-member panel's decision, which affects roughly 12,000 pilots, is binding and effective immediately. The ruling, at least as far as methodology, appeared to be a win for pre-merger Delta pilots.
[SIZE=-2]ADVERTISEMENT[/SIZE]
if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();window.yzq_d['yfOIJkPDoHM-']='&U=13fm0qqlm%2fN%3dyfOIJkPDoHM-%2fC%3d628474.11775752.12480902.1383221%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d5140298%2fV%3d1';Atlanta-based Delta, which became the world's biggest carrier when it acquired Northwest on Oct. 29, wants to smoothly integrate the two work forces as part of its effort to achieve significant cost savings from the deal. A joint pilot contract was reached previously, but seniority had remained unresolved until Monday. Pilots value their seniority. Those at the top of the list get first choice on vacations, the best routes and the bigger planes that they get paid more for flying.
During closed-door hearings before the panel, a lawyer for Delta argued that Delta pilots' seniority list should be merged with Northwest based on pilots' status and aircraft category, while a lawyer for Northwest pilots insisted the fair and equitable method would be to merge the lists based on pilots' date of hire.
In a memo to Delta pilots just before midnight Monday, the head of Delta's pilots union, Lee Moak, said the foundation of the panel's integration method is "ratioed status and category" with a "rational treatment for the minor attrition differences that exist between the two pilot groups."
Northwest pilots tend to be older than Delta pilots because many senior pilots retired from Delta during the run-up to the airline's 2005 bankruptcy filing.
Delta and Northwest will not be able to fly as one carrier under the Delta name until Delta obtains a single operating certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration, which it hopes to have by the end of next year. It also has labor issues to resolve with other employee groups, such as flight attendants and ground workers. Northwest is heavily unionized, while Delta's pilots are the carrier's only major work group to be in a union.
Delta pilots attorney Jeffrey R. Freund had told the panel that to integrate the two pilot lists, the first step should be to place the aircraft on both sides of the combined company in broad categories and then look at each pilot's status on those aircraft.
For example, Freund said, there could be international wide-body captains and narrow-body first officers. He said that whatever the categories are, the appropriate process would be to then count the pilots in each status and category who held those positions on a particular date, on the respective seniority lists.
So, if there were 200 Delta international wide-body captains and 100 Northwest international wide-body captains, the top 300 pilots from the two seniority lists would be distributed on the merged seniority list on the basis of two Delta pilots and then one Northwest pilot, and so on down the line. Freund said the pilots in other aircraft categories should be distributed on the merged list the same way.
But Daniel M. Katz, an attorney for Northwest pilots, had told the arbitration panel that the only truly fair way to integrate the two lists so that pilots on each side understand they are where they belong is to do it based on the date they were hired.
The arbitration panel -- California labor attorney Fredric Horowitz, attorney Dana Eischen and veteran arbitrator Richard Bloch -- was called in to resolve the seniority issue after the pilots at both airlines reached an impasse.
AirportBum
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Can somebody explain this 'pull-out-plug-in' deal please?
Superpilot92
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I think it means as those oldest 274 pilots retire only NWA pilots move up in seniority. So over time the nwa pilots will get a bump of 274 spots as those old guys retire.
nwaredtail
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Basically used to appease the NWA guys for a bit of attrition, key word is a "bit". 260 plus guys pulled out of the list and some NWA guys were pulled out of where they were and put 260 spots up. Seeing as we have retired that many guys this year alone, this is where most of the heartburn will be.
Also hearing that in 10 years, 85% of the WB slots will be DAl pilots, but still waiting on the projections.
Also, I personally think the furlough clause is BS, due to DAL calling the shots. Hopefully, we won't have to worry about it.
Most of the NWA guys that I have spoken to are a bit pissed and it seems the DAL guys are relatively happy. I thought we were both supposed to be pissed
135Drvr
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This may make it interesting next year when the furloughs come:
"From November 1, 2008, until the first bid period following issuance of
"From November 1, 2008, until the first bid period following issuance of
the SOC, any furloughs that are the result of the reduction in flying in the
pre-merger aircraft contained in each airline's Pre-merger fleet shall be
borne by the pilots from that pre-merger airline regardless of their system
seniority; provided, however, that any furloughs resulting from such
reduction in B757 shall be shared on a 1:1 basis."pre-merger aircraft contained in each airline's Pre-merger fleet shall be
borne by the pilots from that pre-merger airline regardless of their system
seniority; provided, however, that any furloughs resulting from such
PuffDriver
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I think that you are whacked.
It means that these guys were pulled out, the list created, and then they were plugged back in to the place they should be. That way, NWA guys got the benefit of their not being there when the ratio was created. Basically, a Delta guy is penalized a number, up to 274 total for every one of those NWA guys of the 274 who is senior to him/until those guys retire--which will be within the next couple of years. There is no leapfrogging in the list. It was "pre-dynamic'd"--if you will.
Jabwmu
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How does Compass/Mesaba fit in with this if they do furlough? Does this mean the first company to furlough flowdown (before SOC)?
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