NWA/DAL + Air France $750 Mil

[sat74]

Maybe everyone needs to start thinking about improving your international product to compete with the international competition. Its horrendous and embarrasing when 3rd world airlines have a better in-flight product than the mighty US airlines!

You guys are 5-7 years too late imo! Good luck with whatever happens.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NRT O/D traffic. This too has been covered. Try to keep up ok?

Yes, because passengers love the service on NWA.

Northwest Airlines finished worst among 11 major U.S. air carriers in a customer satisfaction survey released Monday by J.D. Power and Associates.
The survey rated airlines in five categories -- check-in/boarding/departing process, flight reservation/scheduling process, aircraft interior, in-flight amenities and flight crew.

 

[DTW320]

Originally Posted by DTW320
Still beatin that drum? We've covered this before, but since you have selective amnesia: NWA has a 5 hour average day. The -9 FO will never be paid 1:00 credit for that day. Maybe he was a new hire who doesn't understand this basic FACT. His 5 day will pay a minimum of 25:00 credit. If it puts him over 80 that will be x1.5.

So, you have great work rules? Excuse me then....Anyway, you have 5 day domestic trips?
Yes. Primarily in fact. MINIMUM 25 hours. Great for commuters.
He said he does a lot, and he did say his first day was one leg to MDW. That sounds wonderful. We don't have 5 day domestic trips.
Too bad your narrowbody guys have to make a couple extra trips to the airport each month. That must suck.
If they are worth 25 hours, then I guess that is ok....Kinda like our 6 day INTL trips worth 35 or more hours. Not bad. It's great that you have x1.5 for over 80 hours though. What is x1.5 of one hour pay on a DC9 anyway?
A heck of a lot more than DL MD88 pay...

Sure I can. Its called the "scope clause"...unless we are forced to accept the current DAL scope clause in which case I suppose 68 DC9s could go away. But you know that...

Everyone except you guys know the DC9s are on the chopping block. They are inefficient and gas guzzlers. 30 are leaving this year alone. Don't worry, next year they will give you a new excuse--maybe they need room for the 787s...?

So our scope clause is irrelevant? Please elaborate. Your silence is deafening!

Wrong. That's your plan. NWA's stated policy is that they are looking for more 74-200's. Read the AirCargo article linked in another thread. 787's to replace the 330's and 400's? Uhhh NO. That has never been the plan for the 787. Different mission entirely. We've been buying new 330's through late last year and are now the largest operator of them in the world. Do you understand the difference between the 747-400 and the 787 in terms of capacity and break-even pax/cargo load. It will allow lots of new direct service in thinner markets that would be untenable with any other a/c. 744 for high density(416 pax) long range routes, 330 for mid to long range medium density routes, and 787 for ultra long range medium density routes.

Looking for more 742s? Go look towards UPS--they are dumping theirs....Well, some aviation folks think the 744s are going to replace the 742s. High oil will make Steenland think twice about keeping that gas guzzling fleet alive. Look at every Pacific Rim airline out there flying cargo. Every one is replacing their 742s with 744s--JAL Cargo, NCA, Cathay, etc. They are also replacing their PAX 744s with 773s. The only airline adding larger planes is Singapore currently (A380)

According to you we will replace the 330 and 744 with the 787 right?

 

[DTW320]

Yes, because passngers love the service on NWA.

What an intelligent response. Your right. Intra-Asia travel is a non-issue

 

[General Lee]

NRT O/D traffic. This too has been covered. Try to keep up ok?

Come on now, you are not "Tokyo's favorite son." You offer ONE flight a day from NRT to: Bangkok, Singapore, Manilla, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou(757), Busan(757), Taipei, Seoul, and Hong Kong. You then have two flights a day to Guam(one A330 and one 757) and Saipan(one A330 and one 757 via NGO) from NRT, along with two flights a day to HNL, DTW, and MSP (on SAT only--one daily and a second on SAT). What does all of that mean? You have really only one flight a day to most large Asian cities, while those other Asian countries have their own 3-4 daily flights to NRT from those countries (Singapore has 4 daily flights alone from SIN to NRT), and that doesn't count the number of ANA and JAL flights. Your flights primarily serve as connections from your US originating flights (A330s from SEA, PDX, SFO and HNL and 744s from DTW, MSP, HNL and LAX). The rest of your Japan flights fly to Guam and HNL, along with DTW. (KIX and NGO--or Chubu) Your GUM and SPN service from NRT is in direct competition with Air Mike (CAL) and Jalways. I bet JALways does best with the locals.(they fly a 747 and a 767)

You really aren't the local favorite in NRT, regardless of what Diesel9's gate agent friend says there...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

And, NRT was very important when airlines needed a fuel stop. Now 777s are flying right over and past it. We have a 777ER starting ATL--PVG late next month, which means southerners and South Americans don't have to stop in DTW either.

Yeah, that's why NRT has been important for NWA: as a fuel stop. Man, you are clueless. To bad your pax will miss DTW. The flight to PVG is a lot shorter from there, and the airport is a hell of a lot nicer than ATL.

 

[General Lee]

Yeah, that's why NRT has been important for NWA: as a fuel stop. Man, you are clueless. To bad your pax will miss DTW. The flight to PVG is a lot shorter from there, and the airport is a hell of a lot nicer than ATL.

In the Winter? In the Summer? We had a great year weather wise in ATL, very few delays. And, what SA traffic do you have anyway? Forget that, ASIA is where it is AT... That is why we are going to fly NONSTOP from ATL and maybe LAX to it. NRT is a fuel stop for your A330s, right? Can they fly past NRT from the US?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Originally Posted by DTW320 [/URL][I]His 5 day will pay a minimum of 25:00 credit. If it puts him over 80 that will be x1.5.[/I]

[I][B]What is x1.5 of one hour pay on a DC9 anyway?[/B][/I]

[I][COLOR=royalblue][B]A heck of a lot more than DL MD88 pay...[/B][/COLOR][/I]
[/quote]DAL MD88 First year $50 an hour. NWA is $30. So NWA at 1.5 is still $5 less an hour.

[URL="http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com"]www.airlinepilotcentral.com[/URL]

And Delta pilots get the same 1.5 for GS and 5:15 day credit if I'm not mistaken.

By second year the MD88 pilots are holding a line, or 737-800, or 767, or ER, their choice and making up to $81 an hour.

 

[DTW320]

Come on now, you are not "Tokyo's favorite son." You offer ONE flight a day from NRT to: Bangkok, Singapore, Manilla, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou(757), Busan(757), Taipei, Seoul, and Hong Kong. You then have two flights a day to Guam(one A330 and one 757) and Saipan(one A330 and one 757 via NGO) from NRT, along with two flights a day to HNL, DTW, and MSP (on SAT only--one daily and a second on SAT). What does all of that mean? You have really only one flight a day to most large Asian cities, while those other Asian countries have their own 3-4 daily flights to NRT from those countries (Singapore has 4 daily flights alone from SIN to NRT), and that doesn't count the number of ANA and JAL flights. Your flights primarily serve as connections from your US originating flights (A330s from SEA, PDX, SFO and HNL and 744s from DTW, MSP, HNL and LAX). The rest of your Japan flights fly to Guam and HNL, along with DTW. (KIX and NGO--or Chubu) Your GUM and SPN service from NRT is in direct competition with Air Mike (CAL) and Jalways. I bet JALways does best with the locals.(they fly a 747 and a 767)

You really aren't the local favorite in NRT, regardless of what Diesel9's gate agent friend says there...

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well thanks for the NWA route lesson. Ya know, the great thing about this board is that we have what are called "threads" which allow one to scroll back and actually look at the message that was responded to. You should know that with 10000+ posts. It was said that the 787 will make a NRT hub obsolete. I mentioned O/D traffic in NRT. That's it! That's all that was said! So from that I get a reading of the NWA timetable from you?!? GMAFB!!
I have never made comment 1 about NWA's rep in Asia. So are you saying that NWA's revenue/profit from it's NRT operation is insignificant? Gee, who wants to buy who here? Ya think RA trivializes NWA's NRT hub as you and fins do? Hmmmmmm I wonder.

 

[DTW320]

In the Winter? In the Summer? We had a great year weather wise in ATL, very few delays. And, what SA traffic do you have anyway? Forget that, ASIA is where it is AT... That is why we are going to fly NONSTOP from ATL and maybe LAX to it. NRT is a fuel stop for your A330s, right? Can they fly past NRT from the US?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I wasn't talking about delays in either hub. I was talking about the facility. But we haven't had any significant WX delays in DTW in quite a while. You're right....asia IS where it's going to be. Can the 330's fly past NRT from the US? Would they want to??? Different mission, again. This has been covered.

 

[General Lee]

DAL MD88 First year $50 an hour. NWA is $30. So NWA at 1.5 is still $5 less an hour.

www.airlinepilotcentral.com

And Delta pilots get the same 1.5 for GS and 5:15 day credit if I'm not mistaken.

By second year the MD88 pilots are holding a line, or 737-800, or 767, or ER, their choice and making up to $81 an hour.

Oh snap! But remember, there are a lot of senior people on those old DC9s--so maybe they do make a bit more. Most of our guys have moved on to 757s and 767s by year two, so I guess that isn't a good comparison. For first year guys, I think you are right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I wasn't talking about delays in either hub. I was talking about the facility. But we haven't had any significant WX delays in DTW in quite a while. You're right....asia IS where it's going to be. Can the 330's fly past NRT from the US? Would they want to??? Different mission, again. This has been covered.

I've seen your terminal in DTW, a long time ago. Yeah, it was nice, I guess..... Maybe you haven't been to ATL in awhile. Our terminals aren't too bad at all, infact we have had a lot of renovations since BK. Nice tile floors, new restaurants, etc. Your terminal at ATL probably isn't very nice, since we only have ATR72s and a few RJs at the end of it. I think we park at your nice terminal in DTW, right? Thanks for that!

And, could your A330s fly past NRT? Would they want to? Are there no INTL flights besides NRT from SFO or SEA that you could think of? Could you fly to maybe Seoul, or Taipei? How about Manilla? I don't think you could make it nonstop, and then the only plane you could do it with now is the 744, which is limited by number. Remember, ASIA is where it is AT, and you could probably find many cities from SFO or SEA, yet you chose to stop people in NRT first. You need to rethink your stance. Nonstop is NICE. Oh wait, that is what the 787 will do, when you get them, after the delays. Don't worry, eventually they will come.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Originally Posted by ~~~^~~~
DAL MD88 First year $50 an hour. NWA is $30. So NWA at 1.5 is still $5 less an hour.

www.airlinepilotcentral.com

And Delta pilots get the same 1.5 for GS and 5:15 day credit if I'm not mistaken.

By second year the MD88 pilots are holding a line, or 737-800, or 767, or ER, their choice and making up to $81 an hour.

YUP...first year pay sucks. No argument there. Our 75 hour reserve guarantee helps vs your 70, but it still sucks. The good thing about the 150% over 80 credit is that it doesn't require bidding anything special or having something suddenly become available. At time of bid award our guy may know he's gonna have some 150% pay, or he can upward adjust to get it, or if he get's big delays somewhere in the month his credit can go well over 80. Non-flying credit also counts for the over 80 150%

 

[DTW320]

And, could your A330s fly past NRT? Would they want to? Are there no INTL flights besides NRT from SFO or SEA that you could think of? Could you fly to maybe Seoul, or Taipei? How about Manilla? I don't think you could make it nonstop, and then only plane you could do it with now is the 744, which is limited by number. Remember, ASIA is where it is AT, and you could probably find many cities from SFO or SEA, yet you chose to stop people in NRT first. You need to rethink your stance. Nonstop is NICE.

Precisely why we ordered so many 787's. And, really..you're trying hard to get as much mileage from an aircraft delay as possible aren't you. As if it means they are gonna scrap it or something.

 

[General Lee]

YUP...first year pay sucks. No argument there. Our 75 hour reserve guarantee helps vs your 70, but it still sucks. The good thing about the 150% over 80 credit is that it doesn't require get's big delays somewhere bidding anything special or having something suddenly become available. At time of bid award our guy may know he's gonna have some 150% pay, or he can upward adjust to get it, or if he in the month his credit can go well over 80. Non-flying credit also counts for the over 80 150%

You already said there are no big delays in DTW, so that never is part of the equation...

Bye Bye--General Lee