Freight Dog
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NW scabs
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furloughed dude
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Willow,
Hey, what happened to the flight attendants? Maybe your wife didn't go to work, but most others did.
You blame the pilots for not supporting the strike, but they know they will lose too much if they shut down the company. It is a tough situation, they know they are going go be forced to give up much more. The FAs are next and their pay and benefits will be lowered so much that it won't be a good job anymore. Most would do better working as a bar maid. They are the ones with less to lose and could made a stand, but didn't.
Hey, what happened to the flight attendants? Maybe your wife didn't go to work, but most others did.
You blame the pilots for not supporting the strike, but they know they will lose too much if they shut down the company. It is a tough situation, they know they are going go be forced to give up much more. The FAs are next and their pay and benefits will be lowered so much that it won't be a good job anymore. Most would do better working as a bar maid. They are the ones with less to lose and could made a stand, but didn't.
Willow....that was funny! All I can say is good luck to the NWA mechanics. This is not good for anybody!WillowRunVortex
Former Sleepless Knight
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furloughed dude said:
The votes came in for the PFAA with the majority voting not to strike. That is not what the PFAA wanted but that was the vote so be it. There was an E-mail sent to every FA from NWA management that stated a strike would be illegal and that they would be immediatley fired. This raised a question with some FA's if it was a legal strike or not. PFAA is starting it's negotiations now with NWA management. A lack of good faith on managements part will be a grave mistake for the airline as there will be no doubt as to the legality of a PFAA strike. They can and will shut the airline down. There is no way to cover all the flight attendants with replacement workers. Impossible. The pilots have not only established an unprecedented disregard for solidarity, but they also have no brains apparently. Their motivation is to keep the company out of BK, so they can keep their pensions. NWA management will not sleep until they get rid of that under-funded pension. NWA will go BK regardless before Oct 17. The pilots ARE going to lose their pension, and after today's events, their dignity.
Diesel-9
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IF the mechanics had started talking two years ago they could have settled for less than they offered. They refused for over a year to sign a confidentility agreement to SEE the books. They waited far to long to talk. Company is following R. Andersons 10 year plan to the tee and will be competitive with LCC's next year. With UAL in Ch-11 for 3 years, not paying much if anything for leases, flooding the industry with below cost tickets, NWA revenues at 1999 levels when fuel was .38 cents and now is $1.54 ( 2.09 BILLION annual INCREASE ) it was crunch time. Pension reform close, things will get going again next year.
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furloughed dude
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WillowRunVortex
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furloughed dude
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miles otoole
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aeronautic1
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dbcooper71
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TonyC
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When EAL pilots struck, that established a EAL pilot picket line, and struck work was defined. When EAL pilots crossed the EAL pilot picket line and performed struck work, they became scabs.COpilot said:
Oh, and telling the truth doesn't make one a scab, either. You seem very eager to smear that name around. Do you scream "rape" when someone accidentally brushes up against you in the mall, too?
.
Hey Willow Run Vortex,
I'll meet you at the local of YOUR choosing if you promise to talk me through that Lear jet aileron roll you taught yourself at 21--fact!
Honestly, you sound like a smart guy and I am guessing you are you are still a young guy, but my evaluation is that you take yourself way too seriously. You did open yourself up to the critisism of the PFAA because of your declaritive statements about your wife. Lets remember that is a different world after 9-11 and the industry is going to have to find it's path. Airbus, Canadair, Embriar etc will keep pumping out airplanes and letting them go to startups for cheaper and cheaper and there is only so much airspace. There will be plenty of 20 year olds who would love to do your job cheaper, and your employer would love to hire them. Tony C has nailed the definition of a scab and anyone who works in this industry can point a finger at anyone else as part of "their" problem. There is no point getting worked up to the point of wanting to fight someone on this board. I suggest putting on some "sounds of nature" (I prefer the whale noises) and doing some TM in the lotus position.
Deli Guy
I'll meet you at the local of YOUR choosing if you promise to talk me through that Lear jet aileron roll you taught yourself at 21--fact!
Honestly, you sound like a smart guy and I am guessing you are you are still a young guy, but my evaluation is that you take yourself way too seriously. You did open yourself up to the critisism of the PFAA because of your declaritive statements about your wife. Lets remember that is a different world after 9-11 and the industry is going to have to find it's path. Airbus, Canadair, Embriar etc will keep pumping out airplanes and letting them go to startups for cheaper and cheaper and there is only so much airspace. There will be plenty of 20 year olds who would love to do your job cheaper, and your employer would love to hire them. Tony C has nailed the definition of a scab and anyone who works in this industry can point a finger at anyone else as part of "their" problem. There is no point getting worked up to the point of wanting to fight someone on this board. I suggest putting on some "sounds of nature" (I prefer the whale noises) and doing some TM in the lotus position.
Deli Guy
Airbus, Canadair, Embriar etc will keep pumping out airplanes and letting them go to startups for cheaper and cheaper and there is only so much airspace. There will be plenty of 20 year olds who would love to do your job cheaper, and your employer would love to hire them.
ALPA and all the mainline pilots can continue to ignore this fact or stop the 15 yr slide and integrate the small jets into the fleet.
ALPA and all the mainline pilots can continue to ignore this fact or stop the 15 yr slide and integrate the small jets into the fleet.
Freight Dog
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- Nov 26, 2001
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- 2,232
Cleaners making around 40k a year?!?!? Holy cow!
I'm all for the mechs and keeping their pay at current levels and even higher, but how do you justify cleaners making 40k??? Isn't that normally a non-skilled labor minimum wage job for high school and college students??
---
Northwest Airlines Brings in Replacement Workers
Two Northwest Jets Suffer Mishaps in Detroit
By JOSHUA FREED, AP
MINNEAPOLIS (Aug. 20) - Northwest Airlines jets roared into the sky over the heads of striking mechanics Saturday as the nation's fourth-largest carrier turned over its maintenance to replacement workers on Day 1 of the industry's first major walkout in seven years.
The union mechanics walked out rather than take pay cuts and layoffs that would reduce their ranks almost by half. They said they don't believe the replacements will be able to maintain the fleet, the oldest among domestic airlines.
Saturday afternoon, Northwest was already facing at least two maintenance jobs in Detroit, one of its hubs.
One Northwest plane blew out four tires as it landed on a runway, and another made an emergency landing after flight attendants reported smoke in the cabin. No injuries were reported in either incident. The airline said the cause of the blow-out was likely "an anti-skid braking issue,'' the vapor appeared to be an air conditioning system problem, and neither had anything to do with the strike.
Earlier Saturday, Northwest executives said their contingency plan was working flawlessly, with few cancellations and flights predominantly on time. The airline switched to its fall schedule Saturday, a few weeks early, lightening the schedule by about 17 percent.
No new negotiations were scheduled, said Bob Rose, president of AMFA Local 5 in Detroit. "We'll either live or die on the picket line out here,'' he said.
Steve MacFarlane, assistant national director for the mechanic's union, said the union never expect the walkout to have an instantaneous effect.
"As airplanes break through the normal flight day, these airplane need to get fixed. And if these guys can't fix them they get set off to the side,'' MacFarlane said. "We're confident that over a period of time it begins to snowball, and they're going to have a real problem maintaining their schedule.''
Northwest's pilots said the airline appeared to be running smoothly, said Hal Myers, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. The union is running an around-the-clock call-in center to answer pilot concerns about maintenance issues.
Myers said there were reports from Detroit on Friday that some of the tractors used to push airplanes back from the gate had damage to their ignitions, and that keys were broken off in the locks of some jetways. But "we didn't see anything done to aircraft that would pose a safety threat,'' he said.
It's the first major airline strike since Northwest pilots grounded the airline for 20 days in 1998. But this time, the mechanics are striking alone. Pilots, flight attendants and other ground workers all said they would keep working, and a federal judge barred mechanics at Northwest regional carrier Mesaba Airlines from conducting a sympathy strike.
After talks broke off just before midnight Friday, union negotiator Jim Young said the mechanics would rather see the airline go into bankruptcy than agree to Northwest's terms. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association represents 4,427 mechanics, cleaners and custodians, about 11 percent of Northwest's 40,000 employees.
The mechanics average about $70,000 a year in pay, and the cleaners and custodians can make around $40,000.
The company wanted to cut their wages by about 25 percent as part of an effort to save $176 million a year. It also wanted to lay off about 2,000 workers, almost halving a workforce already half the size it was in 2001. The cuts would be concentrated among cleaners and custodians. Northwest has said other airlines get that work done more cheaply with contractors.
"I don't like the strike, but I'm siding with the mechanics,'' said Bob Gibson, whose daughter was headed off to college in Missouri on a Northwest flight from Detroit. "But why does it have to come down to this? I understand that things are rough, but I think what they're asking them to give up is too much. How can they survive? There should be a compromise.''
Mike Tyrna, an aircraft cleaner for Northwest for 16 years, said union members had no choice but strike.
"I know this has devastated a lot of people,'' he said. "But we can't deal with this. It's impossible in this economy to take a pay cut that extreme. We have families. We have things we have to pay for too.
"When they get all they want, all the corporate types are going to get to walk away with their golden parachutes.''
Northwest, based in Eagan, has said it needs $1.1 billion in labor savings from all its workers. Only pilots have agreed, accepting a 15 percent pay cut worth $300 million when combined with cuts for salaried employees. It is currently negotiating with ground workers and flight attendants, and it has said it can re-open talks with pilots once it gets concessions from the other groups.
Northwest and its regional carriers operate more than 1,500 flights to 750 cities. It has hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis, Memphis, Tokyo and Amsterdam.
I'm all for the mechs and keeping their pay at current levels and even higher, but how do you justify cleaners making 40k??? Isn't that normally a non-skilled labor minimum wage job for high school and college students??
---
Northwest Airlines Brings in Replacement Workers
Two Northwest Jets Suffer Mishaps in Detroit
By JOSHUA FREED, AP
MINNEAPOLIS (Aug. 20) - Northwest Airlines jets roared into the sky over the heads of striking mechanics Saturday as the nation's fourth-largest carrier turned over its maintenance to replacement workers on Day 1 of the industry's first major walkout in seven years.
The union mechanics walked out rather than take pay cuts and layoffs that would reduce their ranks almost by half. They said they don't believe the replacements will be able to maintain the fleet, the oldest among domestic airlines.
Saturday afternoon, Northwest was already facing at least two maintenance jobs in Detroit, one of its hubs.
One Northwest plane blew out four tires as it landed on a runway, and another made an emergency landing after flight attendants reported smoke in the cabin. No injuries were reported in either incident. The airline said the cause of the blow-out was likely "an anti-skid braking issue,'' the vapor appeared to be an air conditioning system problem, and neither had anything to do with the strike.
Earlier Saturday, Northwest executives said their contingency plan was working flawlessly, with few cancellations and flights predominantly on time. The airline switched to its fall schedule Saturday, a few weeks early, lightening the schedule by about 17 percent.
No new negotiations were scheduled, said Bob Rose, president of AMFA Local 5 in Detroit. "We'll either live or die on the picket line out here,'' he said.
Steve MacFarlane, assistant national director for the mechanic's union, said the union never expect the walkout to have an instantaneous effect.
"As airplanes break through the normal flight day, these airplane need to get fixed. And if these guys can't fix them they get set off to the side,'' MacFarlane said. "We're confident that over a period of time it begins to snowball, and they're going to have a real problem maintaining their schedule.''
Northwest's pilots said the airline appeared to be running smoothly, said Hal Myers, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. The union is running an around-the-clock call-in center to answer pilot concerns about maintenance issues.
Myers said there were reports from Detroit on Friday that some of the tractors used to push airplanes back from the gate had damage to their ignitions, and that keys were broken off in the locks of some jetways. But "we didn't see anything done to aircraft that would pose a safety threat,'' he said.
It's the first major airline strike since Northwest pilots grounded the airline for 20 days in 1998. But this time, the mechanics are striking alone. Pilots, flight attendants and other ground workers all said they would keep working, and a federal judge barred mechanics at Northwest regional carrier Mesaba Airlines from conducting a sympathy strike.
After talks broke off just before midnight Friday, union negotiator Jim Young said the mechanics would rather see the airline go into bankruptcy than agree to Northwest's terms. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association represents 4,427 mechanics, cleaners and custodians, about 11 percent of Northwest's 40,000 employees.
The mechanics average about $70,000 a year in pay, and the cleaners and custodians can make around $40,000.
The company wanted to cut their wages by about 25 percent as part of an effort to save $176 million a year. It also wanted to lay off about 2,000 workers, almost halving a workforce already half the size it was in 2001. The cuts would be concentrated among cleaners and custodians. Northwest has said other airlines get that work done more cheaply with contractors.
"I don't like the strike, but I'm siding with the mechanics,'' said Bob Gibson, whose daughter was headed off to college in Missouri on a Northwest flight from Detroit. "But why does it have to come down to this? I understand that things are rough, but I think what they're asking them to give up is too much. How can they survive? There should be a compromise.''
Mike Tyrna, an aircraft cleaner for Northwest for 16 years, said union members had no choice but strike.
"I know this has devastated a lot of people,'' he said. "But we can't deal with this. It's impossible in this economy to take a pay cut that extreme. We have families. We have things we have to pay for too.
"When they get all they want, all the corporate types are going to get to walk away with their golden parachutes.''
Northwest, based in Eagan, has said it needs $1.1 billion in labor savings from all its workers. Only pilots have agreed, accepting a 15 percent pay cut worth $300 million when combined with cuts for salaried employees. It is currently negotiating with ground workers and flight attendants, and it has said it can re-open talks with pilots once it gets concessions from the other groups.
Northwest and its regional carriers operate more than 1,500 flights to 750 cities. It has hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis, Memphis, Tokyo and Amsterdam.
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