NPA and ALPA move closer to merger

[Ty Webb]

I will vote in house union the first chance I get.

You'd better hope for something similar to the APA . . . because if you get something like the NPA, which is what we have, you'll understand why we're going ALPA.

After 4 years of mediated negotiations, , hostage-taking, and a wholesale dismantling of our existing contract, we're making a necessary and badly-needed change. We've already had C&BL changes and 2 BoD recalls . . . . the NPA has run its course.

Great timing, though . . . . fuel at a low, going into positive earnings and a labor-friendly administration . . . now if the rest of the pilot group can remember where they left their nuts, we'll be in good shape.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Come on over to spend your dues money supporting all of the regional carriers that are happy to join since that is where ALPA's focus is...

YGBSM. You obviously haven't been to a BoD and heard the regional guys rant and rave about how the legacy guys run the ALPA world at their expense.

Ahhh...ignorance is bliss.

 

[JoeMerchant]

C


We're about to set the record for longest contract negotiations in RLA history here with the NPA, and you want to talk about how long the PCL guys have been negotiating? At least they're close to getting an agreement. We've only TA'd 5 crappy sections.

Should be quick now that your labor friendly NMB is in power.....I thought dragged out negotiations would become a thing of the past now that the annointed one has assumed the thrown....

 

[JoeMerchant]

YGBSM. You obviously haven't been to a BoD and heard the regional guys rant and rave about how the legacy guys run the ALPA world at their expense.

Ahhh...ignorance is bliss.

...actually it's 50+ carriers all negotiating for themselves....It's a free for all in ALPA.....

 

[PCL_128]

Should be quick now that your labor friendly NMB is in power.....I thought dragged out negotiations would become a thing of the past now that the annointed one has assumed the thrown....

The NMB appointment hasn't been made yet. We'll still probably break the record, because even a new NMB won't immediately release us. Part of the problem is an incompetent union in our case. After 5 years, we still only have 5 sections TA'd. The most pro-labor NMB in history won't release you when you're too incompetent to do better than that.

 

[TWA Dude]

Why do you feel as a member you have no responsibility....??

It's like we're talking a different language here. We both agree on what the current problem is but you don't seem to understand how to solve it. Telling a bunch of people they need to wake up and get more involved in their union isn't an effective way to get that result. Shaming people makes them disconnect or do just the minimum to alleviate that shame. This is the approach you seem to be trying.

People will follow effective leadership because it makes them feel good to do so. If there's no effective leaders than nothing will change for us. I have no idea how to find effective leaders if they refuse to reveal themselves. We're not the only group to have this problem, BTW. Few airlines have good leaders either and their BOD's don't seem to have much luck finding decent CEOs.

 

[Max Powers]

It's like we're talking a different language here. We both agree on what the current problem is but you don't seem to understand how to solve it. Telling a bunch of people they need to wake up and get more involved in their union isn't an effective way to get that result. Shaming people makes them disconnect or do just the minimum to alleviate that shame. This is the approach you seem to be trying.

People will follow effective leadership because it makes them feel good to do so. If there's no effective leaders than nothing will change for us. I have no idea how to find effective leaders if they refuse to reveal themselves. We're not the only group to have this problem, BTW. Few airlines have good leaders either and their BOD's don't seem to have much luck finding decent CEOs.

Your assessment is correct. Sadly however, the majority of AAI pilots follow the George Bush types. Most AAI pilots don't seem to appreciate a thoughtful, pragmatic and methodical approach to a very complex problem. This may be over simplifying; but it seems to be an ingrained southern mentality where: "Union virtue is not appreciated nearly as much as union vice is."

Anyone else agree or disagree?

 

[Lear70]

People will follow effective leadership because it makes them feel good to do so. If there's no effective leaders than nothing will change for us. I have no idea how to find effective leaders if they refuse to reveal themselves. We're not the only group to have this problem, BTW. Few airlines have good leaders either and their BOD's don't seem to have much luck finding decent CEOs.

I had this exact discussion today with T.O. and the ALPA reps at Paschal's...

The pilot group is not going to unify until they have leadership who leads by example. That's just a fact. Rez, you and I agree that followership is required, but it's too big of a leap of faith for the average line pilot to start their own campaign without a leader to sound the charge, not to mention you need to be charging in the same direction to be effective, and that again requires leadership.

The pilot group is not going to get aggressive about contract enforcement until they see and hear about the union LEADERSHIP getting aggressive.

The pilot group is not going to get serious about uniting together until someone stands up and shows a presence, every week, in person, and communicating an exact plan of attack and how the pilots individually fit into the plan.

What this pilot group needs is an effective leader who not only has the skillset to analyze contract language, formulate a negotiating strategy, and effectively negotiate, but who can DELEGATE committee chairs to accomplish those tasks, and trusts them to carry them out so he or she can get out there and accomplish the public work that really unifies the pilot group.

I believe this pilot group desperately WANTS that kind of leadership, but every time someone steps up, 2 other guys who want the position drag him back down, like crabs in a box.

In my opinion, Mike has great things to contribute to the AirTran pilots, but I beleive he needs to chair the NC, and someone wth the skillset to manage, delegate, and lead aggressively needs to be in the president's office. "Each person according to their talents", and all... Just my .02 cents, which won't even buy you a Seattle's Best.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's like we're talking a different language here. We both agree on what the current problem is but you don't seem to understand how to solve it. Telling a bunch of people they need to wake up and get more involved in their union isn't an effective way to get that result. Shaming people makes them disconnect or do just the minimum to alleviate that shame. This is the approach you seem to be trying.

This is FI. There is no leadership here.. The most there is a mirror... If pilots want to shun their career because of what I say or don't say on FI, then they have serious maturing to do....

People will follow effective leadership because it makes them feel good to do so. If there's no effective leaders than nothing will change for us. I have no idea how to find effective leaders if they refuse to reveal themselves. We're not the only group to have this problem, BTW. Few airlines have good leaders either and their BOD's don't seem to have much luck finding decent CEOs.

If you want an effective leader, why not look in the mirror?

Why is that so difficult for AIR LINE PILOTS.... to exercise leadership?

Why do college educated, professional jet pilots turn into boobs when it comes to union affairs and career management....

If every professional airline pilot acted like a leader...just a little bit.... showed up to a union meeting with a leadership mentality... to understand, solve problems, and work as a team....

These are all leadership qualities... why do they exist on the flight deck, but suddenly pilots turn into little boys when it comes to managing the MILLIONS of dollars of their money over their career?

 

[Clyde Frog]

It's true there has been a lack of union leadership at AirTran, no doubt, but by this point self preservation should have taken over. Sadly, it hasn't. We're being led down a path that this group is not prepared for, like sheep to a slaughter.