'Not as talented'...

[DO328-JET FO]

Quoted from a Fox news article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520097,00.html

"Yurman added that regional pilots, on the whole, also are not as experienced or talented as large-carrior pilots. Companies like Delta and American Airlines seek pilots with military training, he said, leaving regional carriers to settle for people who are not the "cream of the crop.""

What is that supposed to mean???


"Both pilots also violated FAA regulations by talking about non-flight-related matters below 10,000 feet, something more experienced pilots would not do, Yurman said."

True, but I've jump seated on enough major airlines enough to know different...

 

[Flybywire44]

Quoted from a Fox news article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520097,00.html

"Yurman added that regional pilots, on the whole, also are not as experienced or talented as large-carrior pilots. Companies like Delta and American Airlines seek pilots with military training, he said, leaving regional carriers to settle for people who are not the "cream of the crop.""

What is that supposed to mean???


"Both pilots also violated FAA regulations by talking about non-flight-related matters below 10,000 feet, something more experienced pilots would not do, Yurman said."

True, but I've jump seated on enough major airlines enough to know different...

It only takes a few bad apples to give any group a bad name... As pilots with a lot of time on our hands, we're the first to dramatize something or talk about someone poorly. We're only getting what we give.

Just get hired with a major in a couple years and you'll escape the stereotype and instantly become a great pilot!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What are you looking for the press to do? Sell material or function as a PR firm for the profession?

 

[Minimaniac]

While I can't disagree that the majority of regional pilots are less experienced than major airline pilots in terms of hours and types of equipment flown, I think one major point is constantly overlooked:

If we are such bad pilots, why do you hire us?

Every major airline has plenty of former regional pilots. Sure, Delta and American may prefer ex-military, but AA has not even hired in nearly a decade. The military has been slowly downsized. The major carriers will never be able to fill 75% of their vacant seats with former military pilots again. Perhaps the initial hiring wave will find a bunch of military guys sitting at the regionals who will get the tap on the shoulder first, but that supply will be exhausted quickly.
As for talent, that generally comes from experience. So yes, we may be less talented in that sense. but again, many of us will be major pilots one day. Will we still be untalented then? Or will the flashy new brass on our hats suddenly enhance our abilites? I know that 20-40 hours of sim training sure won't cure us of our inability.
I am sick of this PR campaign being waged by the major airlines to bash us regional pilots. If Sully and Company were so darn experienced, why the heck did they not notice that whole flock of geese? EXPEREINCE tells me that having one pilot's eyes outside would have prevented that whole mess. A flock of geese is not hard to spot, even with a nose high attitude. Sure, impact may be inevitable, but there will be plenty of time to prevent hitting that many of them with critical components of the aircraft. And what about the Continental captain who took that 737 off the runway in Denver with the tiller? Or the Fedex plane in NRT that was improperly landed? Heck, Fedex thrives on hiring military pilots! Sure did them a lot of good! And then we have Southwest off the runway in Burbank, the midway accident as well. USAirhad 5 (I beleive) accidents through the 80's and 90's.

Yes, regional pilots have crashed too. The Pinnacle flight to 410 was just unbelievable, and this Colgan flight appears to be a poor display of airmanship, too. The point is, no matter what you fly or how many hours you have flown it, we are all susceptible to error. No one carrier, major or regional, has a significantly worse safety record than the rest. Mainline pilots are deliberately trying to undermine regional pilots strictly for personal gain. They want their "flying" back. They want the public to put pressure on the major airlines' managers and get the flying away from "small planes with inexperienced pilots".

If the mainline pilots truly gave a flying fudge about regional safety and experience, they would use their lobby influence to try to set a minimum experience level for employment at a 121 carrier. PIC and SIC would both have flight time requirements. But there is no push for reform, just slander and mudslinging. So much for professionalism. Make no mistake, main line pilots are looking to take away regional pilot jobs. They feel this is an effective way to get rid of regional carriers. Is it reprisal for us flying their flights for less pay, or is it another age 65 type tactic of mainline pilots trying to take what they WANT at all costs?

 

[Flyer1015]

Yurman is an idiot. Yup, about sums it up.

 

[satpak77]

what did you expect? are you shocked? two dead morons just killed 50 pax, one a career changer who was a Gulfstream grad, the other one was put in a turboprop cockpit and doesn't know what a chip light it.

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT YURMAN TO SAY?

 

[Fubijaakr]

I disagree. Talent does not come with experience (flight hours). I've seen some relatively inexperienced (hours) pilots who were VERY talented pilots. And I've seen some very experienced pilots who can't fly their way out of a wet paper bag.

Experience and "talent" are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[Brody1]

A few days ago, I read that six out the last seven domestic fatal accidents have been Regionals. I didn't look it up to see if it was right, but whether we like it or not- the spotlight is now shining on regional airlines as a whole, and regional pilots in particular. Some of the criticism is well-deserved, and some of it is B.S. I've read most of the posts on regarding this subject on FI, and the conclusion I keep coming to is this: it was an accident. As long as we keep putting humans in the cockpit, it will keep happening- at the regionals, majors, and everywhere else. Neither pilot intentionally crashed that airplane. They both had families and friends to go home to. Anyone on here who thinks this can't happen to them because they're somehow 'better than that,' then I don't want to fly on your airplane. Yes, there were obviously mistakes made by the crew, but in the end, there will be plenty of blame to go around. If there is a silver lining to all this, there is now national attention on some of the problems that plague our industry- especially at the regional level (low pay, fatigue, hostile work environment, etc).

I think some things will change (for the better) because of all this. One can only hope.

 

[SLUF4]

More experienced pilots would never break sterile cockpit-oh yeah; I guess they forgot about the whole Delta 727 crash in DFW due to them forgetting to put the flaps down while flirting with the FA.

 

[satpak77]

by the way I am sick of the "two dead pilots left their families behind" crap. These two dead pilots killed 50 passengers due to basic lack of airmanship.

Fatigue, "the system", the airline, etc etc at fault tho huh. Generation Y at it again. "Not my fault". Blame everyone else.

I never thought I would see the day when a failed stall recovery by two pilots is "not their fault." Of course, I never thought I would see 250 hr pilots put into RJ's.

Well, that day has come.

Sickening, embarrasing, and offensive.

50 dead people. 50

 

[Fubijaakr]

More experienced pilots would never break sterile cockpit-oh yeah; I guess they forgot about the whole Delta 727 crash in DFW due to them forgetting to put the flaps down while flirting with the FA.

Didn't happen. I personally know the guy who was the F/E on that.

They two engine taxiied out and the Capt. gave them a grand total of 90 seconds to get the third engine started, do the checklists as he pushed the throttle forward. Unfortunately, they missed the flaps.

 

[FlyingSig]

More experienced pilots would never break sterile cockpit-oh yeah; I guess they forgot about the whole Delta 727 crash in DFW due to them forgetting to put the flaps down while flirting with the FA.

That accident was almost 21 years ago... those that don't learn from accidents are doomed to repeat them. (also note the contributing factors here...this happened just after the Western merger...)

Biggest difference I see between the 727 and the Q though is that the 727 had a mechanical failure (takeoff config was found to be inop) , the Q however was a perfectly working machine that got too slow then stalled.

From the NTSB site on the DAL accident:

(1) THE CAPTAIN AND FIRST OFFICER'S INADEQUATE COCKPIT DISCIPLINE WHICH RESULTED IN THE FLIGHTCREW'S ATTEMPT TO TAKEOFF WITHOUT THE WING FLAPS AND SLATS PROPERLY CONFIGURED; AND (2) THE FAILURE OF THE TAKEOFF CONFIGURATION WARNING SYSTEM TO ALERT THE CREW THAT THE AIRPLANE WAS NOT PROPERLY CONFIGURED FOR THE TAKEOFF. CONTRIBUTING TO THE ACCIDENT WAS DELTA'S SLOW IMPLEMENTATION OF NECESSARY MODIFICATIONS TO ITS OPERATING PROCEDURES, MANUAL'S, CHECKLISTS, TRAINING, AND CREW CHECKING PROGRAMS WHICH WERE NECESSITATED BY SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE AIRLINE FOLLOWING RAPID GROWTH AND MERGER. ALSO CONTRIBUTING TO THE ACCIDENT WAS THE LACK OF SUFFICIENTLY AGGRESSIVE ACTION BY THE FAA TO HAVE KNOWN DEFICIENCIES CORRECTED BY DELTA AND THE LACK OF SUFFICIENT ACCOUNTABILITY WITHIN THE FAA'S AIR CARRIER INSPECTION PROCESS.

 

[FlyingSig]

Didn't happen. I personally know the guy who was the F/E on that.

Then that F/E, to quote Roger Clemens, "misremembers" part of what happened.... while the FA stuff didn't happen right before T/O it did happen on the taxiway and was listed as reason on the ntsb findings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmCtJhCPEeQ

 

[BoilerUP]

Mr. Yurman was a Vietnam-era helicopter pilot and Army O-4 and was an NTSB investigator, but does not hold an ATP and has never flown Part 121.

 

[Kaman]

If one were to research the catalyst for the sterlie cockpit rule, it can be traced directly to an Eastern Airlines DC-9 that crashed while exectuting an non-precision approach to Charleston, SC. I might be wrong about the destination, but I know that is where it can be traced back to. Correct me if I am wrong, Eastern Airlines was the airline that Eddie Rickenbacker built and was full of so-called "talented real airline pilots".

 

[WabiSabi]

My trombone professor in college had a saying that he often repeated; Talent and 75 cents will buy you a cup of coffee. (that was in 1986)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Kaman-

Hows it going...? Regards.....

 

[sunlitpath]

Every pilot group has extensive crash histories. The military, the majors, the regionals, corporate, and general aviation all crash airplanes. No group is immune from pilot error, mechanical failure, or unprofessional conduct.

I think the pay at regional airlines should doubled, so we can act like those real professional pilots at the majors. Then there will be no more crashes at the regional airlines, ever again, and then we will never have casual conversation below 10,000 feet. Just like the majors, gosh they are so perfect and wonderful!

 

[Kaman]

Hey Rez, I'm doing pretty good...Still digesting the hearing. I've listened to both of the morning sessions in their entirety. Hopefully, we can all make something good happen out of something really tragic. I hope that the responsible journalists and
experts will recognize the plight of the regional airline pilot. Rather than just bash us for our lack of training, lack of experience ad nauseum...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Kaman]

Oh, my Dad (USAF pilot for 23 years) told me that any damned fool can fly an airplane...