Northwest Flight Attendants Reject Second Tentative Agreement

[TurboAWD]

Did someone decide to follow their own advice (put up or shut up)?
It's kinda quiet in here all of a sudden.

PS: NMB here we come...

 

[Thomas39]

Well, look at Horizon rates for CRJ700 (for starters). Smaller airplane, more pay. Also (if I recall correctly) profit sharing, trip rigs and duty rigs.
Max CA around $121 (BTW even the Q400 turboprop tops at $111)

Also see below for max CA/FO (again, CRJ 700, smaller AC than Compass):
Comair $108/47 (after concessions, I think but not sure)
ASA $102/44

Now for the REAL pisser:
Max MAINLINE nw EMB195 CA $105 (4th yr FO $47)

Dear severely mental retarted person:

Where are you getting these numbers from? Just pulling them out of your A$$. Look again at the pay rates and compare apples to apples. NWA pay rates do not go out to 18+ years for 77-100 seats. Wonder why? NWA mainline flies much larger airplanes than Horizon, Comair and ASA. We will not (should not) have 18 year Captains flying 76+ seat equipment. We didn't need to negotiate the pay scales that far out. Those 18 year Captains will be on much larger airplanes. Compare the average 10 year Captain rates (which we shouldn't have many, if any, 10 year captains on these as well) for the above carriers to NWA mainline. They are: ASA $81.00, Comair 74.00, Horizon 95.00 and NWA MAINLINE 95.00. Sit down, shut up and have an extra helping of CROW.

 

[blackbox]

ummm.....i just skipped to the last page, so i dont get why you guys are talking about pilot pay on a thread titled F/A reject secont TA.....

I was wondering if anything new has come up with the NW F/A's.....D-day is tomorrow nite at 2200cst.....Is NW AFA still planning in CHAOS??

 

[Lear70]

Actually, it's 2200 Eastern time, 2100 CDT where the company is headquartered and the litigation is probably still ongoing today - the company is probably trying to force an appeal of the ruling that the F/A's can, indeed, walk.

The reason it got on pilot pay is because, as always, these conversations of late degenerate into the F/A's having the balls to play hardball and the pilots don't, probably in large because if NWA really WAS in trouble of liquidating (which they weren't according to the financial data that's come out over the last few months), a pilot strike would destroy the company.

It basically went downhill from there over NWA pilots giving up scope and creating a new low-rung feeder carrier in terms of pay and work rules. It's about career expectancy and more jets are regional carriers mean that a regional pilot who has already been at a regional 8-10 years can expect to reach that 13-15 year pay before getting hired at a legacy like Northwest. It basically was ALPA legacy pilots kneecapping their young... again... just to preserve what they have rather than really taking the gamble, like the F/A's are prepared to do.

 

[flyzjetz]

ummm.....i just skipped to the last page, so i dont get why you guys are talking about pilot pay on a thread titled F/A reject secont TA.....

I was wondering if anything new has come up with the NW F/A's.....D-day is tomorrow nite at 2200cst.....Is NW AFA still planning in CHAOS??

Federal judge issued injunction stopping the F/A's from striking.

 

[paid4training]

Federal judge issued injunction stopping the F/A's from striking.

Now what? Do you strike and go against the injunction, is it a "legal" strike now?

I am pulling for you to come out of this in good shape but I think the current Bush admin. is more company friendly than Union friendly!!!

 

[flyzjetz]

Now what? Do you strike and go against the injunction, is it a "legal" strike now?

I am pulling for you to come out of this in good shape but I think the current Bush admin. is more company friendly than Union friendly!!!

I think American Airlines pilots can surely answer that question about whether to go against the injunction!! The answer is no it's not legal to strike.

 

[Regul8r]

Don't you love the irony/hypocrisy? A Judge probably making well into 6 figures telling labor it's illegal for them to strike for better pay? It's time to put this b|tch to bed!!! STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!

 

[FlyUnited]

How can this possibly be legal? The company forced the 40% paycut on them but they aren't free to go for self help? That's not legal at all. That is forced servitude. The f/a's never agreed to the 40% cut but the company went and did it anyway. This makes no sense at all. The company should be forced to pay the f/a's the old pay until this is resolved.

This Bush administration is really a piece of work.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Actually in Chapter 11

You are free to quit at any time so it is not indentured sevitude. You can wait out the proceedings and the court can find a bunch of different solutions, but patience is the answer unless you have had enough, then walk away.

 

[Regul8r]

How can this possibly be legal? The company forced the 40% paycut on them but they aren't free to go for self help? That's not legal at all. That is forced servitude. The f/a's never agreed to the 40% cut but the company went and did it anyway. This makes no sense at all. The company should be forced to pay the f/a's the old pay until this is resolved.

This Bush administration is really a piece of work.

And the Bush Administration is responsible how??? I love it when people use the board to insert their own little political jabs "Bush Sucks!" "Clinton's an ass!" The issue is between the FAs and their crooked mgmnt team, not them and the Bush Administration. That's it, keep it simple. IF the FAs had the cajones, they would indirectly tell the judge to stick it by having a sick out. It ticks me off to see mgmnt crack the whip and all the employees retreat in fear. Go ahead and add the NWA FAs to the list along with all the Delta pansies

 

[flyzjetz]

And the Bush Administration is responsible how??? I love it when people use the board to insert their own little political jabs "Bush Sucks!" "Clinton's an ass!" The issue is between the FAs and their crooked mgmnt team, not them and the Bush Administration. That's it, keep it simple. IF the FAs had the cajones, they would indirectly tell the judge to stick it by having a sick out. It ticks me off to see mgmnt crack the whip and all the employees retreat in fear. Go ahead and add the NWA FAs to the list along with all the Delta pansies

Some years back, the American Airlines pilots did just what you said and had a sick out after I think Clinton ordered them back to work. A federal judge imposed a huge fine on the pilots union as a result. (I think the fine was about 30 million!)

Yes, the FA's can quit if they don't like the imposed terms from the company, but in bankruptcy the company can do an 1113 and abrogate all work agreements with the employees. The bankruptcy laws need to be changed.

 

[TurboAWD]

Dear severely mental retarted person:

Where are you getting these numbers from? Just pulling them out of your A$$. Look again at the pay rates and compare apples to apples. NWA pay rates do not go out to 18+ years for 77-100 seats. Wonder why? NWA mainline flies much larger airplanes than Horizon, Comair and ASA. We will not (should not) have 18 year Captains flying 76+ seat equipment. quote]

Oooh, you called me a retard. Very intelligent argument.

You asked, I awnsered. As far as 18 year pilots being stuck as CA's being stuck on these airplanes, ask a US Airways pilot about that. 18 yrs makes you a very junior FO over there (forget CA). And since the EMB195 is clearly a DC9 replacement, do you mind stating the min, average, and max seniority of the current DC9 CA's at NW? And those rates you are quoting (as well as the ones I quoted) are for 70 SEAT airpanes at the regionals and 100+ SEATS on your crap mainline contract. And by your previous statements, us pathetic regional pilots have wrecked the industry with our lack of fortutude, so your rates should be so much higher as to be non-comparable.

And if you really want to talk about larger airplanes (That aparently all your 10yr+ pilots are captains on), why don't you compare the Frontier A318/319/320 rates to your A330 rate.

Please come back with some better thought out arguments, as this is getting boring.

Thanks,
Turbo

 

[TurboAWD]

I'm sorry, I tried to just edit my post above, but for some reason could not.

Forget what I said. This discussion is going nowhere, and benefiting no one. You generally dance around my points, and it is clear that I'm not going to convince you or vice versa.

The NW contract (and other concessionary contracts) are reality, and there is no going back.

The bottom line is, pilots are not the enemy (scabs, the Mesa to Freedom, and TSA to GoJets guys excepted), management is.

While I am a ALPA supporter (and volunteer), the way the industry and contracts have evolved causes some serious problems for our profession (along with all the good things). Pilot pensions have become a beating stick for management to use against pilots. The seniority based system has also caused many or most pilots to fear nothing more than the end of their particular employer. And created a system where junior pilots take unreasonable poor compensation. All the above has allowed mgmt to chip away at perhaps the most important part of any contract- scope.

I understand why legacy pilots have voted the way they did. But I might suffer from that decision as much or more than they did. The main question I should be asking myself is why am I reading this message board and not working towards a new career. The awnser is that I have a lot invested in this career, and a part of me thinks I might still come out pretty well in it.

Lets just hope we all come out OK- we deserve it.

Turbo