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Northwest Airlines Files 1113

zonker

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Steenland is a vile, disgusting piece of human garbage.
 

FL000

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Is this the part where the contracts starts to dissolve?
 

mach none

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This is where the court voids all the contracts and the company gets to impose their own work rules and pay. Take it or leave is what it boils down too.
 

On Your Six

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mach none said:
This is where the court voids all the contracts and the company gets to impose their own work rules and pay. Take it or leave is what it boils down too.
Why didn't I go to Law School? I could have made serious cash squashing labor groups...
 

mach none

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On Your Six said:
Why didn't I go to Law School? I could have made serious cash squashing labor groups...
Because you have a soul.
 

BeCareful!

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My heart goes out to our friends at NWA. The script was written by U management, and watching the NWA-sequel is going to be painful.

Good luck, guys!
 

CA1900

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Un-farking-believable. And this is the airline that, time and time again, refused to go along with the fare hikes that would have helped us all survive when the costs were rising. The management group should be in jail.
 

Heavy Set

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BeCareful! said:
My heart goes out to our friends at NWA. The script was written by U management, and watching the NWA-sequel is going to be painful.

Good luck, guys!
Keep in mind that the former USAirways CFO under Siegel is now the CFO at NWA - no surprise there...
 

FDJ2

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mach none said:
This is where the court voids all the contracts and the company gets to impose their own work rules and pay. Take it or leave is what it boils down too.
Not necessarily true. Can you name an ALPA contract that was voided through this process? Hawaiian pilots shot down a TA in Ch11 recently. When the Company went to the judge the judge told the company that neither the company nor the union would be happy with an imposed contract. HAA management then had to go back to the table and negotiate. The HAA pilots ended with a much better deal then what management wanted them to eat and an amendable date in 2007.

It's not a take it or leave it deal.
 

320AV8R

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It's not a "done deal", however.............

Dougie will shaft the pilots, (and all other employee groups), faster than you can say executive bonus.

All the "nice talk" about consenual deals, etc is pure bull. Steenland is an ex- Lorenzo lawyer.....(he only tells "true lies"). He wants to start the 51 day clock, act like he's negotiating......and then WHAMMO !!!!! (Anybody remember AMFA ?)

Neal Cohen wrote the book at USAir, now he's at NWA, and the lead NWA negotiator's name is Ben Dover.

320AV8R
 

Lear70

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FDJ2 said:
Not necessarily true. Can you name an ALPA contract that was voided through this process?

It's not a take it or leave it deal.
It most certainly IS a "take it or leave it" deal.

USAirways was told by the bankruptcy judge, "If you can't come to an agreement, I'm going to void the contract." They gave in to just about everything management asked for.

United did the same thing.

Both "agreements" included the death of the pension plan, requirements for retirees to pay their own medical insurance, and huge changes in flying pay rates, work rules, basically taking them to the mat.

If they had refused, the judge WOULD have imposed his OWN ideas of what was "fair" - both sides feared that, but labor fears it more because, once the judge rules, that's IT. It's FINAL. NO NEGOTIATING, only the ability to strike which would shut the airline down permanently.

Get educated on the subject...
 

pw4000

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Aren't you glad you dident support the other unions at NWA? Smooth move alpa
 

NEWSOUTH

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I agree with Lear70

Yea...I'm going with Lear70 on this one. The fat lady just sang. Good luck to everyone. This sucks....
 

dbrownie

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pw4000 said:
Aren't you glad you dident support the other unions at NWA? Smooth move alpa
What does that have to do with anything?

The judge will decide how screwed I get, not the other unions or ALPA.

Dave B
 

SIG600

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What does this mean for the guys that are retiring or close to it?

Anyone got Ted Kazinski's location? Maybe we should get him a gift certificate to Lowes and the address for NWA Execs.
 

PCL_128

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pw4000 said:
Aren't you glad you dident support the other unions at NWA? Smooth move alpa
What exactly does that have to do with anything? If ALPA had supported the AMFA strike and walked out with them, then the result would have been an immediate Ch. 7 filing and the end of all Red Tail jobs. How exactly is that better than this?
 

Ty Webb

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PCL_128 said:
What exactly does that have to do with anything? If ALPA had supported the AMFA strike and walked out with them, then the result would have been an immediate Ch. 7 filing and the end of all Red Tail jobs. How exactly is that better than this?

Whoa there, Chief . . . they really have you believing that the B.O.D. wold vote to just throw in the towel and liquidate the whole operation, huh?

Wanna play poker sometime?
 

FDJ2

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Lear70 said:
It most certainly IS a "take it or leave it" deal.
Then how do you explain the Hawaiian negotiations while in Ch11?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that it is a level playing field, but it is also far from a "take it or leave it deal."
 

Lear70

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FDJ2 said:
Then how do you explain the Hawaiian negotiations while in Ch11?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that it is a level playing field, but it is also far from a "take it or leave it deal."
It's really very simple, the unfortunate truth that NO ONE in the middle of a 1113(c) filing wants to listen to because NO ONE likes to believe they have no real control over their own future.

One last time: the BOTTOM LINE is that the 1113(c) filing sets a HARD DEADLINE of 51 days to NEGOTIATE (which is what's going on at Hawaiian and what NWA will start doing now). The pilots (and other labor) are on the losing side of this bargaining table because, if they cannot come to an agreement, the JUDGE imposes new contract limitations OR throws the contract out altogether and comes up with his own idea of fair compensation.

In that eventuality, both sides (mgmt and labor) are allowed to present briefs to the judge on why they believe their proposal is MORE ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE and MORE FAIR to labor, but it's the JUDGE who gets to decide, NOT THE UNION.

At this point IT DOES BECOME A "TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT DEAL" WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

You can either take what the judge has handed down or you can exercise your right to immediate self help and shut the airline down, playing a very dangerous bluff with management that they'll come back and give you more (incidentally, this tactic has shut down EVERY AIRLINE THAT HAS TRIED IT).

Yes, you bargain, but only for 51 days. After that, you "take it or leave it".
 
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