Northwest Airlines Files 1113

[Sleepyhead]

If YOU can find ANY relief in the bankruptcy code for employees TURNING DOWN a judge's final ruling and continuing to operate how they pleased, please post it here citing the actual Federal Code.

There are no examples because a judge has never granted an 1113C motion.

That is why there are different opinions as to what happens if the 1113C is granted by the judge. The company says the employees can't strike. ALPA reps told our group (Aloha)they are not sure if we could or not, It has never been tested in court. Many lawyers seem to think it would go something like this: judge grants 1113C and voids contract, employees go on strike, company petitions the judge to stop strike, judge orders strike illegal, company fires anyone not returning to work.

Aloha is now in the same situtation as NW. Today the judge granted a company motion and set a hearing date for 1113c pleadings on Oct 28.

 

[Lear70]

There are no examples because a judge has never granted an 1113C motion.

That's not what I asked, don't avoid the question.

I asked if you could find any examples relief IN THE 1113(c) CODE, not whether you could find examples of whether someone "got away with not having to do 1113(c)".

Incidentally, I believe both USAirways and United had an 1113(c) deadline hanging over them when they negotiated their new deals - I do know both companies FILED them and the unions fought against having the pensions thrown out and the judge ruled against them anyway and DID throw the pensions out.

That's pretty overwhelming evidence of the ability of the judge to approve whatever contract changes he so believes prudent and reasonable.

 

[pilotyip]

What else?

In the end it is the job you have when this is all over. Even if a NWA Capt. has his pay cut to $125K per year like JB, AirTran, TWA, etc. Where can he go at age 50 and make anywhere near that money? If NWA goes chap 7 liquidation, because they can not turn it into a profitable airlines what does the NWA Capt. do?

 

[320AV8R]

just wondering where you got the "51 days" from?
My company is in BK and the ALPA Nation rep told us we have 10 days berfore the hearing once they file an 1113C and the clock starts ticking the minute they file and includes weekends.

Sleepy-

Lear70 is correct.

Once the 1113c motion is filed, a 51 day clock is started. At the end of the 51 days, one of two things will happen:

---management and the union will sucessfuly negotiate a new contract; both will agree to begin operating under the new terms and conditions

---mamagement and the union will be unable to agree on new terms and conditions; (a new contract). and the Judge will make a ruling regarding which proposal he/she deems most appropriate.

The judge's decision is based on what's beneficial to the corporation....not what's "fair", etc..... Also, the Judge must pick either the entire management or union proposal, he/she can't pick certain parts from both proposals. The choice will be the new contract. (It's unclear whether the union can strike, if they don't accept the Judge's ruling).

Also, at the end of the 51 days....if an agreement hasn't been reached, the deadline can be extended, with the agreement of management, the union, and the Judge.

320AV8R

 

[klhoard]

In the end it is the job you have when this is all over. . . .<snip>. .

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I guess another valid question is - "When is the end?" What keeps NWA from continually filing 1113c's??
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[100LL... Again!]

Even IF the pilot group CAN strike, whether or not they do is another matter. As pilotyip posted, where are you going to go and make even half of what you make as a NWA pilot? The guys at the top will probably not be willing to walk. The guys in the middle? Hard to say.

At the end of the day, given the current industry conditions, I think that the pilot group will cave.

 

[NuGuy]

Even IF the pilot group CAN strike, whether or not they do is another matter. As pilotyip posted, where are you going to go and make even half of what you make as a NWA pilot? The guys at the top will probably not be willing to walk. The guys in the middle? Hard to say.

At the end of the day, given the current industry conditions, I think that the pilot group will cave.

Sentiment on the line shows the opposite. I predict an %80 chance of a strike. Just about everyone is willing to take a chance since they could all bail and make the same or more at AirTran, JetBlue or even Spirit.

The Redbook and Greenbook guys are in the minority now anyway, and the MEC just passed a resolution that ensures that any agreement is ratified by membership vote.

Nu

 

[pilotyip]

No Nuguy you a wrong, a 50 year old NWA Capt is not going to be hired at those places and even if he was, he is going to sit in the right seat for a few years making about 50% of what he would make at a downsized NWA, He will never make up the difference. A 40 year old maybe, but there are very few 40 year old guys at NWA, they are all on the street.

 

[B6Driver]

pilotyip ,
You are soooo right.
I would bet that the rank-en-file votes overwhelmingly for the concessionary contract in large numbers as well.
There is no other choice. I been there and the way it makes you feel is horrible but shutting the place down serves no one.
Good luck to all involved.

 

[miles otoole]

No Nuguy you a wrong, a 50 year old NWA Capt is not going to be hired at those places and even if he was, he is going to sit in the right seat for a few years making about 50% of what he would make at a downsized NWA, He will never make up the difference. A 40 year old maybe, but there are very few 40 year old guys at NWA, they are all on the street.

Not to mention commuting on reserve city baby. They'll cave. No other skillz, well, I guess they could apply for an FA job at WN,