Northwest Airlines Files 1113

[PCL_128]

Pilotyip, until you've worked for a Red Tail carrier, you can't really understand the level of disdain that management has for labor. NWA has had the absolute worst labor relations of any airline for decades. This is nothing new. They don't care about saving the airline, they care about stroking their own egos and being able to tell their Lorenzo-era buddies that they busted labor better than anyone else.

 

[pilotyip]

Nuguy why are you denying the age thing?

Nuguy why are you denying it? How can my figures be off, even by your example a 30-yr. old hired in 1995 is 41 next year? A 30 year old hired in 2000 or 2001 does not work there anymore, a 30 yr. old hired in 1999 will be 37 next year, that is close to 40. Take that on top of all the rest of the pilot you have an older pilot group. The majority of NWA pilots are not going are most likely going anywhere else. I am sure he was joking, but I had an old Navy buddy of mine who has been a NWA since 1979 call me last week and ask if we were hiring.

 

[pilotyip]

PCL that is the leadership issue not a managment issue, but that being the best leaders in the world could not save NWA without major cuts. Having flown with NWA guys from the 70's, the present NWA is so much better managed than the NWA of the Nyrop (sp.?) days they can not even be compared.

 

[NuGuy]

Nuguy why are you denying it? How can my figures be off, even by your example a 30-yr. old hired in 1995 is 41 next year? A 30 year old hired in 2000 or 2001 does not work there anymore, a 30 yr. old hired in 1999 will be 37 next year, that is close to 40. Take that on top of all the rest of the pilot you have an older pilot group. The majority of NWA pilots are not going are most likely going anywhere else. I am sure he was joking, but I had an old Navy buddy of mine who has been a NWA since 1979 call me last week and ask if we were hiring.

Pilotyip,

Your demographics are off. About %25 of the pilots hired by NWA between 1995 and 2001 were in the 24-29 age bracket. Heck, there are some 35 year old DC-9 captains who were hired in 1996 at 24.

The claim that 40 year old pilots, who have 20 years in the career left, are "not going anywhere", is absurd.

You also underestimate the resolve of the pilot group. They know to split the list with the "Newco" scam is certain doom down the road, no matter where on the list you fall. A 3000 pilot list and a 2000 pilot list is much easier for management to tackle than a unified 5500 pilot list.

Besides, this is a moot point anyway. Any strike vote and resultant action is going to happen way before any "mass furloughs", so the junior pilots are certainly going to get their say. The RB and GB pilots, even if they all voted the same, won't be in the majority even with 1000 more furloughs.

As to being better managed now than during Nyrop...YGTBSM. In the Nyrop days, labor relations were bad, I will grant you, BUT, NWA had NO long term debt, paid cash for new equipment, managed to pay it's pensions and other obligations, and always seemed to make a profit, even in the bad years when other airlines didn't. NWA owned its aircraft outright AND owned a pile of nice real estate in the Orient.

But beyond all of that...Breath, relax, go to your happy place...you seem awful worked up about this for someone who really isn't affected.

Nu

 

[pilotyip]

Nuguy I am concerned because I have many senior friends at NWA, they are concerned enough that they call me about flying the DA-20 as an on-demand F/O if they become unemployed. That is serious. Are you talking to these guys? Yes there are exceptions to the 30-year average hire, but it is an average because you also hire over age 30, like retried military. So for every 24 yr you know there is a 42-yr old military guy hired in 1997 you do not know. I bet if you did a age average at NWA in the April of 2006 when the present set of cutbacks are completed the average age has to be close to 50. Talk to the UAL guys like UAL78, they will tell you the job at reduced pay for a senior guy is better than unemployment.

 

[NuGuy]

Talk to the UAL guys like UAL78, they will tell you the job at reduced pay for a senior guy is better than unemployment.

If it were just reduced pay, I'm sure I could agree.

However, it is much more than just that. Reduced pay, obscene work rules, and the ability to outsource all of the flying away.

There are plenty of guys at UAL now who are simply walking away from the job. That's right, walking away from a major airline job. Why? Try commuting to a job at ridiculous pay rates, working 4 day trips worth 12 hours, and trying to cram in 95 hours a month. That equates to being home around 5-6 days a month.

I'm sure the local guys in DTW are trying to line something up. You would be stupid not to. But over %80 of the pilot group at NWA commutes, and most will not commute to the above working conditions and are certainly NOT going to uproot their families to what may or may not be a going concern.

With the scope changes they are asking for, any kind of job security will be long gone (much more than just giving the 70 seaters away), even for the senior guys.

NWA is simply overreaching and will not commit to improving the revenue side, nor even provide economic justification for what cuts they are demanding. Is there a middle ground that can help the company but still provide a life? Sure there is. But if they try to force the issue, there will be a confrontation with the pilot group, and your friends are not in the majority.

Nu

 

[pilotyip]

Nuguy if you are right there will be a lot of open gates at DTW, if I am right, a smaller profitable NWA may emerge. Only time will tell.