North American

[servicemonkey]

I

ATA Holdings bought the DC10's. ATA Airlines was supposed to get 7-9 to operate.

Are your sure about about your numbers there? Though I don't really know, all I've got to go on is past rumor/speculation of MX reps, Ops reps, other pilots and, of course, various web sites. Even before GAL and all, I never heard that ATA would operate 7-9 DC10s. So, if you're real, real sure that ATA was "supposed" to operate at least 7 of those planes and not that GAL had to take them all or none, then post your source. Thanks.

 

[WabiSabi]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

ATA Holdings bought the DC10's. ATA Airlines was supposed to get 7-9 to operate. ATA Holdings changed it's name, created a Delaware company, and bought WLDA. GAL gave 3-4 of ATA Airlines' DC10s to World Airlines. World did not buy them. If effect, ATA Airlines saved World's jobs, since you were forced to give up MD-11's.

I'm sorry you think that flying an airplane, once you've got the doors closed, is different. As a pilot, you fly every airplane the same way. You don't fly it a charter way one day and then scheduled the next. We are responsible for flying airplanes, nothing else. So even if they're "apples and oranges" they're still fruit. If DAL had not scoped out RJ's, AMR most likely would not have or created a flow-back, nor would CAL, etc. But, then again, pilots eat their own for personal gain, and unions make it tasty.

I'm not gonna defend ATA's mangement. So I'll give you that one. But the success you seem to think World was having was not shared by all. No airline of the three has the right to claim the GAL cash cow.

The pay scale you're so proud of was negotiated out of bankruptcy. You had to threaten strike to get it. All of the CA's at ATA are 12+ years. ATA's present contract was coerced under bankruptcy threats. It reflects an 18% paycut off of 2003 wages. We have recouped some of that pay. ATA's DC10 pay is greater than World's, and I've been told by some that have worked for both, ATA's concessionary contract is better than World's. I'm a 10th year FO now on the B737. I'm 97 numbers off of the bottom of the active list of 587 (902 total). If there was no bankruptcy I'd be making just under $184/hr as B73 CA. I probably could have held B757 CA by now as well. Our 401k has remained the same, but our CMPP (b-fund) should be 7.5%, it's now 2.5%.

I'm tired of sacrificing my career for the benefit of others. There are many CA's at ATA that have upgraded since bankruptcy that were never captains before at any carrier. World and NAA are hiring. They're not hiring exclusively from our furlough list, but some are going there. We are each flying the others' business.

If you're happy at World, then fine. Good for you. I will not vote for a contract, which will probably come before you get yours updated, that does not protect my career vis-a-vis inadequate scope.

Good luck.

You misunderstood me. I do not think that actually flying an airplane charter or scheduled is different. What I meant by apples and oranges is your comparison to DAL/Comair to ATA/World/NAA. The comparison is too different from a scope and business model perspective.

As for the pay scales, I know ours and I just used the data from APC for ATA's pay scale.

As for the rest, we'll agree to disagree.

Good luck to you too.

 

[JJET44]

World and NAA are hiring. They're not hiring exclusively from our furlough list, but some are going there.

Send all your fuloughees, I would bet my next pay check that they would all be hired before others. If not , there's something wrong.

 

[HalinTexas]

Are your sure about about your numbers there? Though I don't really know, all I've got to go on is past rumor/speculation of MX reps, Ops reps, other pilots and, of course, various web sites. Even before GAL and all, I never heard that ATA would operate 7-9 DC10s. So, if you're real, real sure that ATA was "supposed" to operate at least 7 of those planes and not that GAL had to take them all or none, then post your source. Thanks.

I work for ATA. My source is company info. If you know me, you'll know that I'm not a casual observer of the industry or the company I work for. Remember: we have the same boss(es).

We announced the purchase of DC10's from NWA in Dec. of 2006. I think Omni was going to get some too. The company announcement said that we would get 9 but probably operate only 7, keeping 2 for parts. Then John Dennison retired placing Karnik in his place.

The rumors of World began in Feb. of '07. A month later we hear it's true.

The first bids for DC-10 were in May of last year, and that is when they said we were probably only going to use 4 of them, giving 3-4 to World. Mgt. said that it would fall inline with keeping 6-7 widebodies in our fleet.

 

[CCDiscoB]

...it doesn't make it right for ATA or World to take flying away from [NAA]....

I don't see it happening that way, at least I'd like to think that. We (all three of us) don't have enough aircraft to operate all the business that is out there. What I've seen is WOA sub-servicing NAA when they were acft limited. Having said that, I can't speak to what's happening out in Hawaii.
One thing for sure, GAL wants more PAX sub-service. Hence ATA bringing their 737s to Africa and WOA flying Europe to Namibia next month. Jee, where are we geting the aircraft for all this? I guess we could stop flying AMC.

 

[JJET44]

I guess we could stop flying AMC.

Hell no!! With fuel prices the way they are and the DOD paying for our fuel, I can' see that happening.
GAL needs to spend some $ to make some $.
We need more birds.

 

[Capt1124]

After the job fair, and the climbto350 ad, any word on interviews?

 

[JJET44]

After the job fair, and the climbto350 ad, any word on interviews?

Rumor has it that there will be another class in Feb.
Mostly, if not all, made up of Maxjet guys.

 

[HalinTexas]

Well, it may not matter soon. ATA sched. service is to be sold off. As to what that exactly means is anyone's business.

No pilot layoffs planned so far as I know, but the Director of Crew Planning was laid off this week. Some FA layoffs and realignment was announced in Dec, but that hasn't been clarified.

 

[JJET44]

Well, it may not matter soon. ATA sched. service is to be sold off. As to what that exactly means is anyone's business.

No pilot layoffs planned so far as I know, but the Director of Crew Planning was laid off this week. Some FA layoffs and realignment was announced in Dec, but that hasn't been clarified.

Didn't the last time this happened, it was sold to SWA and in exchange ATA picked up the Hawaii routes for SWA?

 

[HalinTexas]

Didn't the last time this happened, it was sold to SWA and in exchange ATA picked up the Hawaii routes for SWA?

Uh, no.

SWA came into the picture to keep Airtran or America West from gaining a major foothold in MDW. Airtran was first, but the AW deal was the better one. They loaned ATA money to keep operating and aquired about 25% of ATA until Matlin-Patterson bought the whole company in Sept. of '05. ATA was already doing Hawaii. ATA has been flying to HI since the mid '90's. We are still flying to HI, with the SW codeshare, but according to management we aren't making any money.

Also according to managment, NAA and WOA are getting more charters due to the fact that those two carriers are cheaper than ATA.

GAL wants to keep the 3 carriers separate because of the military contracts. ATA and Omni are on one team and World-NAA are on another. GAL makes more money that way. ATA is in direct competition with World and NAA for military flying, and I suspect that World and NAA will get more of it than ATA because they are cheaper. Outsourcing.

Remember, MP also owns Varig Logistics. If you ask anyone that has flown there, they will tell you that MP is no friend of theirs. You might see some of your flying outsourced to them if they do it cheaper. Particularly since MP has bought some A330F and has not said where they will be going.

But never fear. ALPA is still dragging their feet. ATA will be mostly gone before anything ever happens.

 

[CaptSeth]

But never fear. ALPA is still dragging their feet. ATA will be mostly gone before anything ever happens.

1. Hal, did you read last week's MEC update?

2. Statistically, we are not a perceptable cost difference compared to World, except for trip length provisions. NAA, different story.

 

[JJET44]

ATA and Omni are on one team and World-NAA are on another. GAL makes more money that way.

I'm not following on the Omni front. What does Omni have to do with GAL other than that they're a competitor?

 

[HalinTexas]

I'm not following on the Omni front. What does Omni have to do with GAL other than that they're a competitor?

Teaming arrangements for military contracts. ATA, Omni, and I think UPS are on one. World, NAA and FDX are on another.

70%+ of GAL's revenue is from the military. If ATA is merged with World/NAA then the team must be broken up. GAL loses lots of money.

 

[HalinTexas]

1. Hal, did you read last week's MEC update?

2. Statistically, we are not a perceptable cost difference compared to World, except for trip length provisions. NAA, different story.

Yes, I've read two of them. Jan. 14 deals with a "Global Pilots Alliance." An utter waste of resources as far as ATA pilots are concerned. And Jan. 31, "From the Chairman" says ATA is going for a grievance, Sec. 1E, to try and force single carrrier status. Says you have "built up a relationship" with the other two carriers. If you've followed this sight, then you'll notice that World isn't interested in a merger, so they may fight it. At any rate it took around 2 years to get this ACARS grievance worked out. The merger happened last year. Grievance should have been filed then.

Since it's been two weeks between the GPA and the grievance issue and at the same time ATA is supposedly selling SS if they can find a buyer, I'm highly suspicious.