Non-rev and commuting just got harder

[John Pennekamp]

You can still bypass at certain airports when you are a working crewmember. This rule they are talking about is for deadheading and non-reving and it's nothing new. For years, crewmembers have been prohibited from bypassing security when deadheading or non-reving. It is mostly on the honor system that you do it but nonetheless, people get caught here and there and are usually made an example out of. It's a very stupid thing to get fired over.

Here's the question. How will they know you're non-revving when you get off the crew bus? Will the bus drop everyone off in front of the airport now? Will they refuse entry to anyone not in uniform? How will they enforce this?

 

[SplitBar]

So please tell me how you are NOT a working crewmember when you are deadheading. If I am getting paid to be on an aircraft, I am a working crewmember.

Your name isn't on the release and you aren't working the flight. You are simply getting paid to deadhead, often on another airline. You are working but you are not a crewmember of the flight being operated.

 

[CA1900]

Here is a tip for your commute. Call uhaul morons!!! this way you won't have to deal with the commute drama. Live in domicle and quit yer whining!!!

When your company closes down every domicile you move to, let me know how you feel about it. My last one closed every single domicile where I was based, save the company headquarters up in BFNY. How many times are you willing to move for a regional?

 

[vectorvictor]

So let's say for example you landed in ORD after finishing a four day. You left from some small airport in the morning that didn't require you to be screened. Now you have to EXIT the secure area to REENTER the secure area and ask to be screened before you can commute home. Please tell me how they will enforce this and how it will make me any safer. The dude that stole your SIDA badge or uniform is not going to VOLUNTEER to be screened.

I feel safer already. "Hey...and could you guys look a bit harder, last time through you missed the gun, 4 kilos of cocaine, and the small child I was smuggling."

 

[vectorvictor]

Here is a tip for your commute. Call uhaul morons!!! this way you won't have to deal with the commute drama. Live in domicle and quit yer whining!!!

That would have been 5 moves in 4 years. None of which were of my choice. Here's a tip, next time you think you have something intelligent to say....just keep it to yourself.

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

TSA= This Sucks Always

 

[siucavflight]

How will this work at ORD? I just hop on the bus and get dropped off at the terminal, I ask because I am going to HNL tomorrow and planned to park at the employee lot.

 

[Shaheen]

nope......... I'm not gonna do it!!!

If it's the rule, then you, my friend WILL do it.

If it is found that you went the other way around, they can, and will, shut down the airport.

Try it and then post your experience!

 

[atrdriver]

Your name isn't on the release and you aren't working the flight. You are simply getting paid to deadhead, often on another airline. You are working but you are not a crewmember of the flight being operated.

So? My name isn't on the release when I am sitting up front either. By definition, when I am getting paid I am working. I have been through several FBI background checks to be able to work for an airline. So now they are saying that those checks aren't thorough enough, that they have to have high school dropouts wand me before I can step onto an airplane. Sorry, that is just assinine.

 

[atrdriver]

If it is found that you went the other way around, they can, and will, shut down the airport.

Oh yeah, that will look REALLY good for the TSA. They shut down a major airport, canceling or delaying hundreds of flights, all because someone who has been through numerous background checks bypassed security. When that hit CNN and FOX, and the fired pilot was interviewed, the TSA would be lambasted. I can see it now. TSA director trying to justify shutting down an airport because one of those dangerous crewmembers got by. "Sure, it's OK for them to fly a multi-million dollar airplane with hundreds of people on board, but we just can't have them walking through the secure areas of the airport without being screened..."

 

[Shaheen]

Thank God for the TSA...I feel so much safer every time an employee of the federal government with a sub-high school level education takes my tube of explosive toothpaste away from me. I don't even think about security when I step into the flight deck now because I know that America's finest have my back. I would much rather they concentrate their efforts on confiscating "illegal" liquids or gels than guns or explosives. Toothpaste Stealin' A$$holes.

The above comment is quite derogatory to anyone and very demeaning to anyone working for TSA or any other profession.

Since you're so educated and Gods' Gift to Airline Flying, let's try, in your case, take as much time, and come up with humans with 'Sub-High School' education with some of the greatest inventions, writings, research, and development for the advancement of many kinds. A few of those 'Sub-High School' level educated people invented few things for aviation and, let's see, if you can come up with ONE that you use in your airlines flying every time you fly.

Don't be arrogant. If you have problems with rules, you can't fault the TSA person who is implementing. Why don't you, next time when you're being searched, ask for a Supervisor, then ask the Supervisor for the TSA manager, and then ask the TSA manager for the Director...and try to find out who exactly makes those rules and reach that source and address your concerns.

You were once at a 'sub-high school educated' level too. You must have been just as stupid as you blame these TSA personnel to be.

 

[Lear70]

OK, here's a pop quiz.

How will the gate agents KNOW you didn't go through screening?

There's only 1 way to do it:

Require ANYONE who is deadheading/commuting/pass riding to go to the counter and get a gate boarding pass, then have TSA stamp it when you clear security.

Even if the airport authority were to check the swipe badge logins against boarding manifests EVERY TIME an airplane departs, there are loopholes in every airport I've been domiciled in since 9/11 (5 different airports, all with no way to enforce this policy).

The only thing that will keep people doing this is the honor system or some way to lock people out from boarding without proof of screening.

THEN you open a NEW can of worms. You start at an outstation and get screened coming in, but once arriving, you don't have a stamp at your LOCAL airport, so you have to go BACK out of security just to commute home? Don't laugh, this happened in DTW a few years ago for 6 months, it was a nightmare.

 

[Old Crow]

Confused again... If you just finished your trip and want to catch that last flight home that leaves in 30 minutes. Are you saying that now, I have to go back to the terminal (ATL) and go through security before I can non-rev home, eventhough I've been flying all day as a pilot?
If this is the case, it will never work unless they require all crewmembers to be screened just like pax before the workday begins. That would grind ATL to a halt.

 

[Capn Lucky]

I cannot believe I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna stick up for TSA. There was just a situation in MCO where a non-rev ramper badged thru security and brought guns and drugs abord a flight to Puerto Rico. He was a comair ramper.

 

[sleddriver77]

Where are the pilot's Unions on all this bullshizzle?

 

[Shaheen]

Oh yeah, that will look REALLY good for the TSA. They shut down a major airport, canceling or delaying hundreds of flights, all because someone who has been through numerous background checks bypassed security. When that hit CNN and FOX, and the fired pilot was interviewed, the TSA would be lambasted. I can see it now. TSA director trying to justify shutting down an airport because one of those dangerous crewmembers got by. "Sure, it's OK for them to fly a multi-million dollar airplane with hundreds of people on board, but we just can't have them walking through the secure areas of the airport without being screened..."

Happened not long ago. Everything was shut down. Ramp Agent boarded a flight soon after he/she completed shift and decided that he/she didn’t need to go through security.

Even that the Ramp Agent went through proper boarding procedures, it was soon found out and next thing you know the airport is shut down. Since you seem to know every thing, why not look up what airport and when this happened. I know it…but I will let you look it up.

No one except the Ramp Agent, got fired. There was no CNN/FOX blaming anyone. TSA was right on!!

By the way, why don't you try to use the above 'bold/underlined' line next time you're being screened by TSA...if you're fall in to that 'crewmember' or 'airline pilot' category.

 

[Lear70]

Where are the pilot's Unions on all this bullshizzle?

They file initial complaints with the government agencies but then move VERY slowly, knowing that a lot of this will get sorted out by itself.

Old Crow, I'm not saying that's the way it IS now with the new rule.

I'm saying that's about the ONLY way they could reasonably enforce it. Otherwise there's no way to prove you've been through screening or not that day.

I'm also saying that this was the solution they came up with in DTW in late 2004 and a lot of people started missing commutes home at the end of trips.

Funny how those same people called in sick on their next trip to get their days off back.

Cap'n Lucky, I have to disagree with you. This is NOT a smart move on the part of TSA.

If a certain work group that can bypass with SIDA capability takes advantage of it to plant guns and drugs on a plane, then shut THAT loophole.

No offense, but the average bag handler / regional CSA doesn't have a whole lot to lose professionally if they get caught doing something (criminal matters are a different ball of wax). Pilots are "trusted agents" and have a h*ll of a lot more to lose.

Put the onus where it belongs: square on the heads of the people who caused the problem. Shut THAT loophole.

Incidentally, am I the only one that finds it greatly annoying that it was a ramper who caused the problem but I don't see any new rules requiring all the rampers / CSA agents to clear security before coming to work?

So we're getting screwed for someone else's bungled smuggling attempt.

Priceless.

 

[Lear70]

Happened not long ago. Everything was shut down. Ramp Agent boarded a flight soon after he/she completed shift and decided that he/she didn’t need to go through security.

Even that the Ramp Agent went through proper boarding procedures, it was soon found out and next thing you know the airport is shut down. Since you seem to know every thing, why not look up what airport and when this happened. I know it…but I will let you look it up.

No one except the Ramp Agent, got fired. There was no CNN/FOX blaming anyone. TSA was right on!!

By the way, why don't you try to use the above 'bold/underlined' line next time you're being screened by TSA...if you're fall in to that 'crewmember' or 'airline pilot' category.

I think you missed the guy's point.

As a pilot we are "trusted agents" of the system, have access to several dangerous (prohibited) items in the cockpit, some with TSA-approved firearms.

Yet you want to shut down an airport or recall a flight to the gate because one of us went through our normal process to deadhead home?

What about jumpseating? If I'm going to sit on the flight deck, am I now a crewmember assigned to the flight? But wait a second, I'm not on the release?

I'm surprised you can't see the idiocy of this new rule as applied to pilots for a problem some ramp flunky caused.

Incidentally, why are you bashing someone for using bold and underline when you go the blue route to make your message stand out? Seems kinda hypocritical...

Just sayin'...

 

[Papa Woody]

Dudes...

RELAX.

Comply with this new rule TO THE LETTER.

It's called MASS HYPERCOMPLIANCE.

It'll work.

 

[wms]

OK, here's a pop quiz.

How will the gate agents KNOW you didn't go through screening?

There's only 1 way to do it:

Require ANYONE who is deadheading/commuting/pass riding to go to the counter and get a gate boarding pass, then have TSA stamp it when you clear security.

Even if the airport authority were to check the swipe badge logins against boarding manifests EVERY TIME an airplane departs, there are loopholes in every airport I've been domiciled in since 9/11 (5 different airports, all with no way to enforce this policy).

The only thing that will keep people doing this is the honor system or some way to lock people out from boarding without proof of screening.

THEN you open a NEW can of worms. You start at an outstation and get screened coming in, but once arriving, you don't have a stamp at your LOCAL airport, so you have to go BACK out of security just to commute home? Don't laugh, this happened in DTW a few years ago for 6 months, it was a nightmare.

I was wondering the same thing. How do screeners know if you're going to work or travelling, and how do agents know you didn't go through security? And if you're commuting home from ATL after a trip, do you have to clear security in ATL, or does your duty-in at the outstation count? Another policy with no reasonable means to enforce it. Time to be an FFDO.