Non-rev and commuting just got harder

[Shaheen]

Thank God for the TSA...I feel so much safer every time an employee of the federal government with a sub-high school level education takes my tube of explosive toothpaste away from me. I don't even think about security when I step into the flight deck now because I know that America's finest have my back. I would much rather they concentrate their efforts on confiscating "illegal" liquids or gels than guns or explosives. Toothpaste Stealin' A$$holes.

The above comment is quite derogatory to anyone and very demeaning to anyone working for TSA or any other profession.

Since you're so educated and Gods' Gift to Airline Flying, let's try, in your case, take as much time, and come up with humans with 'Sub-High School' education with some of the greatest inventions, writings, research, and development for the advancement of many kinds. A few of those 'Sub-High School' level educated people invented few things for aviation and, let's see, if you can come up with ONE that you use in your airlines flying every time you fly.

Don't be arrogant. If you have problems with rules, you can't fault the TSA person who is implementing. Why don't you, next time when you're being searched, ask for a Supervisor, then ask the Supervisor for the TSA manager, and then ask the TSA manager for the Director...and try to find out who exactly makes those rules and reach that source and address your concerns.

You were once at a 'sub-high school educated' level too. You must have been just as stupid as you blame these TSA personnel to be.

 

[Lear70]

OK, here's a pop quiz.

How will the gate agents KNOW you didn't go through screening?

There's only 1 way to do it:

Require ANYONE who is deadheading/commuting/pass riding to go to the counter and get a gate boarding pass, then have TSA stamp it when you clear security.

Even if the airport authority were to check the swipe badge logins against boarding manifests EVERY TIME an airplane departs, there are loopholes in every airport I've been domiciled in since 9/11 (5 different airports, all with no way to enforce this policy).

The only thing that will keep people doing this is the honor system or some way to lock people out from boarding without proof of screening.

THEN you open a NEW can of worms. You start at an outstation and get screened coming in, but once arriving, you don't have a stamp at your LOCAL airport, so you have to go BACK out of security just to commute home? Don't laugh, this happened in DTW a few years ago for 6 months, it was a nightmare.

 

[Old Crow]

Confused again... If you just finished your trip and want to catch that last flight home that leaves in 30 minutes. Are you saying that now, I have to go back to the terminal (ATL) and go through security before I can non-rev home, eventhough I've been flying all day as a pilot?
If this is the case, it will never work unless they require all crewmembers to be screened just like pax before the workday begins. That would grind ATL to a halt.

 

[Capn Lucky]

I cannot believe I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna stick up for TSA. There was just a situation in MCO where a non-rev ramper badged thru security and brought guns and drugs abord a flight to Puerto Rico. He was a comair ramper.

 

[sleddriver77]

Where are the pilot's Unions on all this bullshizzle?

 

[Shaheen]

Oh yeah, that will look REALLY good for the TSA. They shut down a major airport, canceling or delaying hundreds of flights, all because someone who has been through numerous background checks bypassed security. When that hit CNN and FOX, and the fired pilot was interviewed, the TSA would be lambasted. I can see it now. TSA director trying to justify shutting down an airport because one of those dangerous crewmembers got by. "Sure, it's OK for them to fly a multi-million dollar airplane with hundreds of people on board, but we just can't have them walking through the secure areas of the airport without being screened..."

Happened not long ago. Everything was shut down. Ramp Agent boarded a flight soon after he/she completed shift and decided that he/she didn’t need to go through security.

Even that the Ramp Agent went through proper boarding procedures, it was soon found out and next thing you know the airport is shut down. Since you seem to know every thing, why not look up what airport and when this happened. I know it…but I will let you look it up.

No one except the Ramp Agent, got fired. There was no CNN/FOX blaming anyone. TSA was right on!!

By the way, why don't you try to use the above 'bold/underlined' line next time you're being screened by TSA...if you're fall in to that 'crewmember' or 'airline pilot' category.

 

[Lear70]

Where are the pilot's Unions on all this bullshizzle?

They file initial complaints with the government agencies but then move VERY slowly, knowing that a lot of this will get sorted out by itself.

Old Crow, I'm not saying that's the way it IS now with the new rule.

I'm saying that's about the ONLY way they could reasonably enforce it. Otherwise there's no way to prove you've been through screening or not that day.

I'm also saying that this was the solution they came up with in DTW in late 2004 and a lot of people started missing commutes home at the end of trips.

Funny how those same people called in sick on their next trip to get their days off back.

Cap'n Lucky, I have to disagree with you. This is NOT a smart move on the part of TSA.

If a certain work group that can bypass with SIDA capability takes advantage of it to plant guns and drugs on a plane, then shut THAT loophole.

No offense, but the average bag handler / regional CSA doesn't have a whole lot to lose professionally if they get caught doing something (criminal matters are a different ball of wax). Pilots are "trusted agents" and have a h*ll of a lot more to lose.

Put the onus where it belongs: square on the heads of the people who caused the problem. Shut THAT loophole.

Incidentally, am I the only one that finds it greatly annoying that it was a ramper who caused the problem but I don't see any new rules requiring all the rampers / CSA agents to clear security before coming to work?

So we're getting screwed for someone else's bungled smuggling attempt.

Priceless.

 

[Lear70]

Happened not long ago. Everything was shut down. Ramp Agent boarded a flight soon after he/she completed shift and decided that he/she didn’t need to go through security.

Even that the Ramp Agent went through proper boarding procedures, it was soon found out and next thing you know the airport is shut down. Since you seem to know every thing, why not look up what airport and when this happened. I know it…but I will let you look it up.

No one except the Ramp Agent, got fired. There was no CNN/FOX blaming anyone. TSA was right on!!

By the way, why don't you try to use the above 'bold/underlined' line next time you're being screened by TSA...if you're fall in to that 'crewmember' or 'airline pilot' category.

I think you missed the guy's point.

As a pilot we are "trusted agents" of the system, have access to several dangerous (prohibited) items in the cockpit, some with TSA-approved firearms.

Yet you want to shut down an airport or recall a flight to the gate because one of us went through our normal process to deadhead home?

What about jumpseating? If I'm going to sit on the flight deck, am I now a crewmember assigned to the flight? But wait a second, I'm not on the release?

I'm surprised you can't see the idiocy of this new rule as applied to pilots for a problem some ramp flunky caused.

Incidentally, why are you bashing someone for using bold and underline when you go the blue route to make your message stand out? Seems kinda hypocritical...

Just sayin'...

 

[Papa Woody]

Dudes...

RELAX.

Comply with this new rule TO THE LETTER.

It's called MASS HYPERCOMPLIANCE.

It'll work.

 

[wms]

OK, here's a pop quiz.

How will the gate agents KNOW you didn't go through screening?

There's only 1 way to do it:

Require ANYONE who is deadheading/commuting/pass riding to go to the counter and get a gate boarding pass, then have TSA stamp it when you clear security.

Even if the airport authority were to check the swipe badge logins against boarding manifests EVERY TIME an airplane departs, there are loopholes in every airport I've been domiciled in since 9/11 (5 different airports, all with no way to enforce this policy).

The only thing that will keep people doing this is the honor system or some way to lock people out from boarding without proof of screening.

THEN you open a NEW can of worms. You start at an outstation and get screened coming in, but once arriving, you don't have a stamp at your LOCAL airport, so you have to go BACK out of security just to commute home? Don't laugh, this happened in DTW a few years ago for 6 months, it was a nightmare.

I was wondering the same thing. How do screeners know if you're going to work or travelling, and how do agents know you didn't go through security? And if you're commuting home from ATL after a trip, do you have to clear security in ATL, or does your duty-in at the outstation count? Another policy with no reasonable means to enforce it. Time to be an FFDO.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Dudes...

RELAX.

Comply with this new rule TO THE LETTER.

It's called MASS HYPERCOMPLIANCE.

It'll work.

The problem with hypercompliance is that the TSA doesn't care how long the lines are. More importantly, they don't care if you have to walk 5 times from C concourse to the security checkpoints. From their point of view, the longer the lines are, the better they are doing their jobs!

I'm not going to comply with anything until I get an official directive from the company.

 

[atrdriver]

Happened not long ago. Everything was shut down. Ramp Agent boarded a flight soon after he/she completed shift and decided that he/she didn’t need to go through security.

Even that the Ramp Agent went through proper boarding procedures, it was soon found out and next thing you know the airport is shut down. Since you seem to know every thing, why not look up what airport and when this happened. I know it…but I will let you look it up.

No one except the Ramp Agent, got fired. There was no CNN/FOX blaming anyone. TSA was right on!!

By the way, why don't you try to use the above 'bold/underlined' line next time you're being screened by TSA...if you're fall in to that 'crewmember' or 'airline pilot' category.

Sorry, but there is a difference between a ramp agent and a pilot. And I have said that to TSA personnel before. I once asked a TSA agent why it was necessary for pilots to go through the screening process. Know what the answer was? To a pilot standing there in uniform, with ID, getting ready to get on the aircraft? "Well, it's so you can't get control of the aircraft." Wanna explain to me again how intelligent these people are?

 

[atrdriver]

T
You were once at a 'sub-high school educated' level too. You must have been just as stupid as you blame these TSA personnel to be.

Yeah, I was. When I was 17 years old. Since then I have been through college, pilot training, and 25 years in the workplace. What's your point?

 

[n25na]

While groups who hire questionable people from third world countries like the menzies get to simply bypass security with their fully loaded backpacks. What a farce.

AMEN!!!!!!!!

 

[Prop2Jet]

Just use the employee line. Never really any wait. Even in ORD or CLT. Zoom right through.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Just use the employee line. Never really any wait. Even in ORD or CLT. Zoom right through.

The problem isn't the length of the line. The problem is, I ride the bus into the airport, and it drops me off at the operations area. Am I expected to then hike to the security checkpoint, walk outside of the secured area, just to re-enter? How stupid is that?

That will add at least 30 minutes to the process.

The question is, how does the TSA know who gets on a plane without going through security? Do we have hidden GPS units on us now? What about jumpseating?

The company needs to address this.

 

[AceyFO]

I am really confused now. So even if we have a SIDA badge we still have to go through security even with the badge?

 

[fastback]

I cannot believe I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna stick up for TSA. There was just a situation in MCO where a non-rev ramper badged thru security and brought guns and drugs abord a flight to Puerto Rico. He was a comair ramper.

I understand your point but...

I think the TSA is not worried about pilots, but rather, people impersonating pilots. The solution is simple - nationwide SIDA badge with biometrics [digital fingerprinting] for all crewmembers.

 

[Flying Illini]

An excerpt from our company memo...

Basically what this means is that if you have not been through security screening and you are going to ride on an airplane as a passenger or jump-seater, you must go through a security checkpoint before checking in for the flight. You also will be subject to random screening at the gate.

If you have gone through security at the beginning of your day and not left the sterile area, you do not need to be re-screened when changing from a working crew member to a dead heading crew member.

 

[Poahi]

I cannot believe I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna stick up for TSA. There was just a situation in MCO where a non-rev ramper badged thru security and brought guns and drugs abord a flight to Puerto Rico. He was a comair ramper.

Excellent. This way, he can go back through security then reclaim his guns. I bet that extra 1/2 hour it take that will keep legit commuters from making their flights will really throw a wrench in to the drug dealer's plans.

Fix the bad people, not the good ones.

 

[Lear70]

Excellent. This way, he can go back through security then reclaim his guns. I bet that extra 1/2 hour it take that will keep legit commuters from making their flights will really throw a wrench in to the drug dealer's plans.

Fix the bad people, not the good ones.

Exactly.

That's the problem we see over and over again.

No matter WHAT new rules they come up with, any person with half a brain can come up with a way to circumvent them.

Short of making everyone travel nude and prohibiting ANY baggage, there's no way to make flying 100% safe.

But hey, whatever makes those TSA folks feel all warm and fuzzy that they're doing their jobs.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

If you have gone through security at the beginning of your day and not left the sterile area, you do not need to be re-screened when changing from a working crew member to a dead heading crew member.

I know this is picky, but what about if I start my day at the base in ATL, and never go through security. I then finish my day line, and I'm going on a trip. Does the fact that I never went through security at the beginning of the day mean that I'll have to go then?

Really though, I will never take my bags through security. I will leave them in ops, go through security, and pick them up to continue on my trip home. (That's if they even find a way to enforce this.)

 

[Poahi]

I know this is picky, but what about if I start my day at the base in ATL, and never go through security. I then finish my day line, and I'm going on a trip. Does the fact that I never went through security at the beginning of the day mean that I'll have to go then?

Really though, I will never take my bags through security. I will leave them in ops, go through security, and pick them up to continue on my trip home. (That's if they even find a way to enforce this.)

By operating a flight, you are leaving the sterile area; you are leaving the airport entirely. This is a poorly written directive.
I haven't seen anything on bags - yet...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Short of making everyone travel nude and prohibiting ANY baggage, there's no way to make flying 100% safe.

Dude! Have you SEEN some of our F/A's?

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

 

[Papa Woody]

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

LOL....me too.

Now all I can taste is pepperoni and parmesan....yuck!

 

[Taildragon]

WTF over

 

[NEDude]

Reminds me of a TSA policy in place at my company HQ a few years ago. We picked the aircraft up at the hangar and taxied it over to the terminal. We were then required to get off the airplane and go into the terminal and go through screening. Following that we were to go back out to the aircarft and then conduct our security sweep of the aircraft to make sure nobody stashed anything. Anyone see the GLARING loophole?

 

[yournextFO]

I cannot believe I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna stick up for TSA. There was just a situation in MCO where a non-rev ramper badged thru security and brought guns and drugs abord a flight to Puerto Rico. He was a comair ramper.

Yes, and he was a RAMPER, not FLIGHT CREW, who seem to be the primary object of this new policy!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Why not give out colored wristbands or those neat little stamps on your hand if you've been through security. You know- a different color for a different day. Problem solved. That sounds like fun!

 

[Blue Sky]

It's all a bunch of reactionary hot air!!!!! Until we profile people (which we all do anyhow and should concerning airport security) nothing will be safer, it will only placate the unintelligent citizens of our country and make the terrorists laugh at our stupidity!