Non-rev and commuting just got harder

[ReverseSensing]

Here's an example of how this can make our lives more difficult if I'm understanding what they really want us to do...still waiting for clarification on that though. This is actually my schedule for tomorrow, BTW...

1st leg - BOS-BWI -- Go through security in BOS to begin my day.
2nd leg - Deadhead BWI-ATL -- Get off the airplane I just brought in. Exit the BWI sterile area. Go through security with all of my stuff (the same stuff that I had in BOS about 2 1/2 hours ago) Get on airplane to ATL.
3rd leg - Non-rev home ATL-HOME -- Get off airplane I just brought in...which could very well be right next to my commuting flight, BTW. Exit ATL sterile area. go back through security with all of my stuff again. Run back to the gate with the hope that I haven't missed my commute home.

Now I realize that commuting is my choice but take out that 3rd leg out of the equation and do you think it makes any sense at all to have to go back through security to ride as a passenger on the airplane that you just delivered safely to the gate?

Well, I don't know what your airline is telling you, but mine is specifically telling me that you would NOT have to re-clear security before taking the deadhead. According to our guidance (which might not be what the TSA actually published) working and deadhead crew are NOT required to clear checkpoint security, assuming you have any way to bypass, which you may or may not. But you certainly wouldn't have to exit the sterile area in order to re-clear.

However, if you started your day at an outstation that let you through ops without clearing a checkpoint (which is supposedly allowed), then at the end of the day, you were going to commute (not deadhead), you would be obligated to clear security before boarding. (Though, as others have pointed out, that seems incredibly difficult to enforce, particularly if you are commuting on your own airline.)

 

[Tarzan]

Such a condescending tone for a super experienced 2000 hour airline veteran. Try commuting at a airline job for a while and then post YOUR experience.

Also, I am not your friend and never presume to tell me what I will and will not do.

Ummmm....... Boo-Yah? :laugh:

 

[jacksjj]

This is just f#$k!ing stupid. I swear these A$$holes need to be kicked right square in the johnson. I mean, who in their right freakin' mind doesnt realize that, if we wanted to, we could kill a large number of people WITH OUR BARE HANDS. There is absolutely no need for this crap. My 8 year old sister could do a better job at running this joke of a federal agency.

Rant = over.

 

[imacdog]

Here's an example of how this can make our lives more difficult if I'm understanding what they really want us to do...still waiting for clarification on that though. This is actually my schedule for tomorrow, BTW...

1st leg - BOS-BWI -- Go through security in BOS to begin my day.
2nd leg - Deadhead BWI-ATL -- Get off the airplane I just brought in. Exit the BWI sterile area. Go through security with all of my stuff (the same stuff that I had in BOS about 2 1/2 hours ago) Get on airplane to ATL.
3rd leg - Non-rev home ATL-HOME -- Get off airplane I just brought in...which could very well be right next to my commuting flight, BTW. Exit ATL sterile area. go back through security with all of my stuff again. Run back to the gate with the hope that I haven't missed my commute home.

Now I realize that commuting is my choice but take out that 3rd leg out of the equation and do you think it makes any sense at all to have to go back through security to ride as a passenger on the airplane that you just delivered safely to the gate?

According to my airline, once you've cleared security once and stay in the sterile area, you don't have to go through again. If you bypassed security in the morning by having a SIDA badge or whatever other means, you will have to go through security before flying on a plane as a passenger. Yes, it's still retarded. All of our reserve pilots now have to go through security at the beginning of each work day, even at our own bases where we could otherwise use our SIDA badges to bypass.

 

[Lear70]

Here's the problem: Some airlines have taken it upon themselves to require jumpseaters to get a 'boarding card' through the ticket counter. Once you've passed through the security checkpoint, you must have the TSA stamp the card. If the record is made at the counter, it will have the dreaded SSSS and you will be searched every time. The airlines can waive this SSSS, but most of the time they won't. If you show up to the gate without the stamp, back to the counter and back for another handscreening.

That's exactly what happened LAST time this nonsense started up about 3 years ago.

Even if you cleared at an outstation first thing in the morning, there was no way for the gate agent at the next station to know you had already went through security once that day, so you still had to go back out, get your boarding pass, go through security, get it stamped, then come back in for deadheads or commutes.

I might have missed a couple of company deadheads because of it...

Amusingly enough, FFDO's even had to stop by the counter to get your boarding pass, then ask TSA to stamp it AFTER you had bypassed security anyway.

Pretty stupid deal all the way around. Lasted about 4-6 months, then went away.

MSP was the worst domicile because there was only one crew line and with the number of commuters between NWA, MSA, and PCL, plus the people who lived there, it was a nightmare.

DTW was bad enough, but the gate agents (especially the MSA agents) were a lot cooler at saying, "This is really stupid", and let people on without going back through security.

PCL_128, don't you remember those memos? I think you had just gotten on at PCL when it happened or maybe it was right before you came online.

 

[248to2.8]

1st leg - BOS-BWI -- Go through security in BOS to begin my day.
2nd leg - Deadhead BWI-ATL -- Get off the airplane I just brought in. Exit the BWI sterile area. Go through security with all of my stuff (the same stuff that I had in BOS about 2 1/2 hours ago) Get on airplane to ATL.
3rd leg - Non-rev home ATL-HOME -- Get off airplane I just brought in...which could very well be right next to my commuting flight, BTW. Exit ATL sterile area. go back through security with all of my stuff again. Run back to the gate with the hope that I haven't missed my commute home.

If you go through security on your first leg, then you are good until you leave a secure area. To deadhead you don't need to go through security again. Same with the commute home. Just like any passenger, as long as you don't leave a secure area then you can change flights and gates at your leisure.

 

[Poahi]

So please tell me how you are NOT a working crewmember when you are deadheading. If I am getting paid to be on an aircraft, I am a working crewmember.

We can argue what 'traveling employee' or 'working crew member' means, but ultimately, it's the TSA's definition that will land you in the middle of a incident. Oh, and by the way, they haven't defined it.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128, don't you remember those memos? I think you had just gotten on at PCL when it happened or maybe it was right before you came online.

No,I vaguely remember it. I think it was about 6-12 months after I got hired. I was commuting to CAK on us and XJ at the time, and I wasn't hassled even one time about it that I can remember. The rule is just as unenforceable now as it was then. I'm not concerned, but for those that are, ALPA is already lobbying to get this fixed. I'm sure we'll have a resolution to the problem in a month or so.

 

[ground stop]

by the way, even discussing this subject on this public forum is against tsa rules. sensitive security information mumbo jumbo. big brother is watching.

 

[AV80R]

by the way, even discussing this subject on this public forum is against tsa rules. sensitive security information mumbo jumbo.


TSA rules of the week or TSA rules of a particular airport? Because they all change almost daily based on which McDonalds the particular TSA supervisor got his/her training at.

I’m not trying to sound demeaning toward the TSA (I know it sounds like I am) but the truth is most of the TSA agents do not like the pilots and I bet to venture most pilots feel the same way about them.

TSA’s main objective seems to be the enforcement of the 8 hour from bottle to throttle rule rather than the terrorist threat itself (I’m not condoning the tiny, tiny percentage of pilots who are stupid enough to drink before flying). I know the TSA agents are only doing what they are being told but if I felt we are safer thanks to the TSA I’d be willing to put up with a lot of harassment, the truth is I don’t believe we are. Since they spend so much time searching through the bags of crew members, they have less time to focus on real threats. All crew members (who go through fingerprinting, etc) should have their own security and their own entries into the airports; it should be controlled by the airlines and not by the TSA.

TSA should profile, profile, profile - I know it’ll never happen but we should learn from the Israelis. ACLU defeatists would of course fight it but I think that’s the way to go. Flame away…