NO please at Tranny!!

[ultrarunner]

Ya know, if DAL, CAL, SWA, and a couple other pax carriers that are hiring, grouped together and targeted a specific pilot group to hire, depending upon the size of the carrier, you see quite a few planes being parked.

Think about it, if those carriers above all targeted, say, MEH and AAI FO's, you could see those carriers park planes pretty darn quick just because of no bodies, and an inability to train.

Interesting concept. Carriers need to re-think how they could eliminate competition.

 

[GOULET!]

Funny how the grass was so green at AirTran during the Midwest negotiations and now all of a sudden its doom and gloom cause of your contract issues. Glad we turned down you guys. Forklift Joe should have definetly gone to jail for all the involvement he had in the coverup.

 

[LearLove]

Ya know, if DAL, CAL, SWA, and a couple other pax carriers that are hiring, grouped together and targeted a specific pilot group to hire, depending upon the size of the carrier, you see quite a few planes being parked.

Think about it, if those carriers above all targeted, say, MEH and AAI FO's, you could see those carriers park planes pretty darn quick just because of no bodies, and an inability to train.

Interesting concept. Carriers need to re-think how they could eliminate competition.

already happening at the commuters - Republic is poaching Mesa and Piedmont FO's like crazy. My last 5 trips have all been with 3 diff former PDT guys and 2 mesa.

 

[LearLove]

And neither did Joe. I'm not usually the kind of guy that likes to defend management, but Joe's gotten a bad rap for this incident. Every operator of the -10 was using the exact same "forklift" procedure. Do you think Joe was standing around the hanger floor and watching as the shift change occurred with the engine resting on the forklift? Give me a break. Joe's caught heat for something that was an industry-standard practice. He was just the unlucky manager that ended up having the practice result in an accident. The real blame for these sorts of incidents rests with an FAA that is more focused on the airlines' bottom lines than safety.

from what i've read and saw on the hist channel show it's more about the involvment in the cover-up of the accident findings than who allowed the forklift to be used in the first place.

 

[Kharma Police]

Funny how the grass was so green at AirTran during the Midwest negotiations and now all of a sudden its doom and gloom cause of your contract issues. Glad we turned down you guys. Forklift Joe should have definetly gone to jail for all the involvement he had in the coverup.

I doubt the board asked for your approval. What happened with the V1 cut in the 80s? Something about stress errosion cracking in the right engine?

 

[DASHDRIVER]

deleted, decided not to sink into the same bin as some other posters.
__________________
[/

 

[UALX727]

Getting back on topic here.....Does anyone know if the reserve givebacks are still in this new TA??? If they are, I have one question:

WHY?????

If they are than it is an automatic no vote from me.

Think of how many grievances we've lost over the last few years. Hey, we won this one!!! Why the he!! would we want to give that back to the company?

Yeah, I know, people say, "Well, the industry standard is XXXXX. We at AirTran actually are getting over because of our reserve rules."

What the heck is wrong with that??? Aren't we trying to pull the bar up??? How many industry leading items in our contract do we currently have?
Let's at least keep one of them......

If we give this up it will be a HUGE concession to the company. From what I remember, all reserves will make a 75 hours unless you fly more than that.

Giving this back to the company will save AirTran millions over the life of this contract. And many of our guys will end up having to sit reserve in the future. Hey, congrats guys, you just voted in a massive paycut.

 

[EMBATP]

guys...i've said it before and here it goes again....work rules, scope and language...they are trying to shine this turd enough to pass....we need to scrap this thing and start all over again

 

[Stewie]

I will tell everyone right now that if this thing gets voted in, I am outta here. I have been here for six months and I guarantee there will be an exodus of newly hired FO's if this thing goes. They are already having a hard time getting highly qualified people. I have been told firsthand that not too many people are interested in AirTran at Airinc conferences.

I came here thinking this was a better place, with some good morale. It's on the verge of going down the tubes. On the other hand, if we get some good leaders in there, it could go the other way.

I'm Praying...

Easydoesit hit the nail on the head. All I can say is that I whole heartedly agree with this post. I've been here 2 years and feel the exact same way. This union is powerless to this way more experienced management. If this group votes this in...we are the mesa of the "major airline" group. We need to raise the bar. And I'm not saying ask for the moon...how about getting on par with our peers? I'm pretty sure airTran can afford it. People are getting happy that we are getting back "core" and 4.5 hour is going away. WAKE UP CALL. We have that right now. This is a tried and true airline management technique. "take it away..then give it back...the pilots will see this as a gain" My stuff is out. How can we EVER squeeze a dime out of this prosperous, profitable company.....WE CAN'T!!

 

[Lear70]

If we give this up it will be a HUGE concession to the company. From what I remember, all reserves will make a 75 hours unless you fly more than that.

Actually, it's worse than that... it was backed down to 70 hours again for reserves in the last "LAFO" from the company in exchange for MDO's going away and a 12 day off hard allowance for reserves.

So, unless you fly over 70, that's all you'll get paid, and you're absolutely correct, it's MILLIONS over the term of the contract the company saves from current book. That's a concession.

Why? Because, as I proved to the NC during the D.C. talks, the reserve pilots already get 10 days off half the year, 11 days off the other, and you can ALWAYS drop a day here or there on reserve, taking you right back up to 12 or even 13-15 days off. I did it for 7 months this time last year.

I got 14 days off on average and credited 87 hours on average over that 7 month period. This T.A. would give me 12 days off with 70 hours of pay. That's a 2 days LESS off a month with a 17 hour PAY CUT.

How is this better? It's NOT. They're nickel and diming us to death and making it *appear* as though we're getting more things during the "tweaking" and we're not even back to our CURRENT CBA Quality Of Life or pay.

We're going to have to do 10 times the work this time around to make sure it dies... This "tweaking" is doing nothing but diluting the NO vote... just as predicted.

 

[airline#5]

I am so sick of all you satistied tranny types, mostly capt.'s that think that pay rates are not the issue. Total BS!!! It is the main issue for FO's who will stay that way for a long time. $hit pay/decent schedule or good pay/ bad schedule. I learned to live with both, but this place wants to pay fo's terribly and bend em over with bad work rules too.....NO

 

[ATLDRVR]

So are you saying if they paid you more you would be ok with crap work rules? Because there is more to this contract than just pay.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Anyone else not able to access the NPA web site?

 

[FIREMAN]

Anyone else not able to access the NPA web site?

More NPA spinning. "sorry can not post TA2 due to web site problems so voting will be delayed longer"

 

[Lear70]

That likely means they're uploading the new page and checking links. They pull it down every time they upload new information.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

We the FO have the power to vote it down. We need to educate any FO that thiinks this is a good deal.

 

[Murphy]

Reserve guarantee was down to 70 hours in the LAFO. That's below industry standard. Min guarantee for reserves at Continental and Delta get 5 hours more guarantee than line holders. Continental reserve pilots are guaranteed 12 days off for either 76 or 72 hours depending on whether they are Reserve A or B. Reserves also have daily open time pickup periods. The way I read it, Continental reserves are released to their next telephone availability period when they get back from a trip. Compare those rules to what can happen to you at AirTran when you get back from an assignment. It is worth everyone's time to read other airline contracts. Even watered down post 9/11 and bankruptcy stripped contracts have better work rules than what we are trying to be sold. Don't be led down the primrose path.

 

[ASA]

Leonard and his guys are smart businessmen. They are pleased when pilots quit. They would love to see the most senior pilot here be a 5-year guy. Of course that's not going to happen. The senior guys will stay. On the other hand, they don't particularly like to see first or second year guys quit, because they probably haven't recouped training/new hire costs yet.

But to make this a not-so-pleasant place to work and to have 3-5 year guys quit to go to the "majors" is a desirable situation for this management. Get a new guy in, keep the rates low. Let the "majors" deal with senior, happy pilots, making a lot of money. We'll keep this place relatively junior, people who just sort of "ended up" at AirTran.

Leonard, Kolski, not good guys. But they know how to make themselves an extra million or two every time. And a weak pilot group lets them do it.

 

[Diesel-9]

INfo from last fall. May be some updates. Please chime in. Reserve Min. Monthly Guarantee. DAL/UAL 70, AAA 72, AMR 73, NWA/ALA 75, CAL 76, AWA 77. Min Duty period/Trip rig. DAL 5:15/1:3.5, NWA 5.00/1:3.75, AAA 5.00/1:3.5, UAL 5.00/1:4(UAL LCO has no duty rig :-(, AMR 3.00/1:3.5, CAL none/1:4 :-( CAL needs to raise the bar on workrules. Hasn't it been over 10 years since the 2nd CH-11? AMR/NWA have single duty period minimums of 5.00/4:15.

 

[FIREMAN]

"There was a power outage last night during a storm and the NPA web site server is down. We are making repairs and hope to have it up later today. Once the site is up, the recent August TA will be posted with the associated comparison charts. Also, there will be a video explaining highlights and how and why we got to this TA. We will email you with links when the web site is back up"


ie- we do not want you to read the TA2 without our spin video


the site was down well befor the storms in ATL.