No More Hats at ExpressJet

[PIREP]

This debate shows what is nice about the XJT hat policy.

If you don't like the hat. Don't wear it.

If you like the hat, STFU and wear the darn thing, but stop telling everyone else how much more professional you think you look.

I think just the opposite. This thread shows what's wrong with this policy. Xpress jet shouldn't be wishy washy on the issue. They should go all or nothing. No "half the crew wears the hat, the other crewmember doesn't." It's not called a uniform for nothing. Depending on your point of view, half the crew looks professional, the other half looks like a dork. Take your pick, it works for both points of view. I have to tell an ironic story on this exact issue. I was flying with a Capt. that was a "hat carrier" not a "hat wearer". He hated the hat. Always had it, but never wore it. On this one particular leg, there was a passenger "disagreement" while loading. The Capt headed back so he could get the situation resolved so we could get out on time. He grabbed his hat on the way out of the cockpit. On the way back into the cockpit after resolving the dispute, he took off his hat and I had to ask "so, why did you take your hat?" His answer "because passengers hearing tends to be a bit better when I have it on, if you know what I mean." That ironically sums up the issue as to why some argue the pro hat issue. First impressions mean alot. The hat does stick out like a sore thumb. People will see the hat first, you second. There have been many behavioral studies on these issues. People do tend to react much differently when approached by a uniformed person as opposed to that same person out of uniform. Does the hat make the uniform, does the hat matter, or does it just add more recognition to the legitimacy of the uniform? Who knows. All I know is that when the whole international aircarrier(can't remember the name) flight attendant crew that flies out of MCO who wears the red uniforms and the red hats strolls through the concourse together, the amount of attention and comments they get is astounding. As one lady I heard the other day say, "Oh my, they look so professional! Why doesn't Southwest's stewardess' dress like that?" I had to laugh. I love the look of that crew (as do most the pilots that drool over them). I know this threads about pilot hats, but I love those flight attendant red hats.

 

[Vortilon]

You are right...with so many airlines having so many "options", the term uniform has lost its meaning. At some regional carriers its all one big free-for-all.

Some of the international crews (pilots & flight attendants) look fantasic with their classic, stylish uniforms. They grab your attention and look very glamorous. While here in the US we have the leather-jacket, no hat, beat-up bag, yellow shirted mess. These same people are the first to tell you how they aren't treated with respect by their employer or fellow employees. Hmmmm.

Too many pilots lowering their own expectations of themselves. But at least they are "cool." Its unfortunate that these attitudes also translate into the cockpit and the negotiating table.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Goodby!

When you pursued a career as an airline pilot wasn't the hat a requirement? You knew that a hat was involved there somewhere right?

YA! And pay was low when I pursued my career too. So does that mean we dont try to change something because it was like that in the past?

Loose the friken hats! I have watched many a young Captains running accross the flight line chasing after their image only to almost get killed. I personally stopped two from running into the blades of ATR72's. 22 years of wearing hats in the military wears on you. Take em off indoors and off on the flight line as they are a hazard only to have the airlines tell you to do the opposite. There is also something wrong with wearing hats inside a building. It is a show of disrespect. Most of the loudest concerning keeping the hats (that I personally know) are the PFT, Flt Safety or ERAU types. Never realy did much prior to thier new career so the need to feel important is greater than some of the people that have been doing it for some time. Heck, the police in our county have gotten rid of them. The highway patrol still wears the drill instructor (smokey bear) hats though. They do look intimidating. Maybe we should wear those to get respect!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The respect given clipper captains back then is NOT COMING BACK. Sorry to break the bad news, but back then less then 15% of the population flew on a commercial airliner. Flying was either a once in a life event or the domain of the wealthy. Today with the influx of 'peanut fares' it is more like 70%. Wearing a hat will not mean anything when it comes to the recapturing the respect this profession once had.

The bottom line is people want cheap seats long before they want some pilot 'dude' who looks like that 'dude' in Catch Me If You Can. You guys want to get an ulcer over this issue rather then the downfall of pensions and work rules at the Major level go right ahead. I can guarentee you that the sharpest dressed, hat wearing US Air Captain could really give a sh!t how much respect you think he deserves in his uniform. Heck he can even be a Freedom Air FO that looks like Brad Pitt and it won't matter.

I certianly agree that this position has validity...

However, do we let our environment define us, or do we define our selves...

We can easily allow a situation of a vicous cylce...

I'm advocating being proactive rather than reacitve...

 

[aewanabe]

All I gotta say, as a Brazilian Lawn-Dart driver, is I'm for the hat. Why? Plain and simple, it covers up the smashed-flat spot left by 8 hours a day of wearing the David Clamps. It also keeps what's left of my hair dry during those preflights in the snow/rain etc. Now, if you're driving a cool airplane where you get to wear real "jet-pilot" headsets, by all means lose the darn thing.

 

[surplus1]

I have a dumb question. Instead of fighting over your hats, why don't you tell us the status of your new TA?

Did you vote on it? When will you vote on it?

PS. All you anti-uniform guys should just go down to AF and buy some cargo shorts, a wrinkled shirt with a smutty jargon and a pair of flip flops. Then go hope your pax will accept your command presence should you ever have the need.

Maybe it would be a good idea for the President to appear on TV in a 10-gallon hat, a buckskin shirt, jeans and cowboy boots. Judges should come to court with open collars and cutoffs; no reason for those stupid old fashioned robes.

 

[T-Gates]

I have a dumb question. Instead of fighting over your hats, why don't you tell us the status of your new TA?

Did you vote on it? When will you vote on it?

PS. All you anti-uniform guys should just go down to AF and buy some cargo shorts, a wrinkled shirt with a smutty jargon and a pair of flip flops. Then go hope your pax will accept your command presence should you ever have the need.

Maybe it would be a good idea for the President to appear on TV in a 10-gallon hat, a buckskin shirt, jeans and cowboy boots. Judges should come to court with open collars and cutoffs; no reason for those stupid old fashioned robes.

I rarely agree with you Surplus, but great post............

 

[AviatorTx]

I would love to have cargo shorts for summer flying. It's hotter than heck here in Houston.

As for the T/A, it still has a week and a half to go on the voting. Word should get leaked out on this forum within minutes of the results going public. Look to hear something late on the 18th, or first thing in the morning on the 19th. That's what the union guys said.

 

[JimNtexas]

All I gotta say, as a Brazilian Lawn-Dart driver, is I'm for the hat. Why? Plain and simple, it covers up the smashed-flat spot left by 8 hours a day of wearing the David Clamps. It also keeps what's left of my hair dry during those preflights in the snow/rain etc. Now, if you're driving a cool airplane where you get to wear real "jet-pilot" headsets, by all means lose the darn thing.

I'm astounded to hear that an airline would allow hats on the flightline. You can get an article 15 for that in the Air Force. Sure, lookin good is a full time job, but then again how much does a jet engine cost?

 

[JimNtexas]

One more thing. Those clipper captains smoked like chimneys. What you need to do is lean on the ticket counter, tilt that big wheel hat back, and light up your Marboros.

Then maybe you'll get some respect. After all, that's what the Clipper guys did and look where it got them.

 

[aewanabe]

I'm astounded to hear that an airline would allow hats on the flightline. You can get an article 15 for that in the Air Force. Sure, lookin good is a full time job, but then again how much does a jet engine cost?

Sorry, Jim, for my particular airline replace "allow" with "require". "Anytime a pilot is outside in view of the public, INCLUDING doing the preflight walk-around inspection yada, yada, yada.......the full uniform shall be worn including hat. " We generally don't do preflights with the engines running so that's not much of an issue. Regarding windy situations/FOD in general, well, if need be I've got a hand to help me hold onto the darn thing. Besides which, while my previous post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, I just don't see it as a big deal. Right now my company requires me to wear the stupid thing and it's no skin off my back to do so; if that changes, then it'll get left at home with the kneeboard, E6B, etc.

 

[Vortilon]

Hey, I like to wear TWO kneeboards. You know, redundancy.

 

[SWA GUY]

I had a one man hat burning party. I burned it, then I p!ssed on it!

Seriously though, if you think you need a hat to make you look professional, then you probably think new shoes make you run faster.

WTFO!

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I am tired of hearing about stupid hats. "Customers like the professional look..blah, blah". All they care about are cheap tickets, a smooth ride, on-time arrivals, and a nice landing.

Tell the old lady in the back how professional you are because you are wearing a hat right after she sh*ts her pants because you shot a terrible approach and slammed it into the ground.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I am tired of hearing about stupid hats. "Customers like the professional look..blah, blah". All they care about are cheap tickets, a smooth ride, on-time arrivals, and a nice landing.

Tell the old lady in the back how professional you are because you are wearing a hat right after she sh*ts her pants because you shot a terrible approach and slammed it into the ground.

I'm afraid I have to agree with mr. Sanchez here.

 

[cathal]

we have a rule at Mesaba that says you can show up up dressed in whatever you're wearing at the time, as long as it is more convienent for you to fly like that then delay the flight.
A buddy of mine was junior manned and showed up in shorts and sandals. I once showed up after "calling in honest" in cords and a polo. None of our passengers got off despite our unprofessional attire. I'm sure they all figured we were filling some sort of schedule gap and were happy we showed up to fly.
You really think they care if you have a hat on? The only difference between someone with a hat and one without is the hat. I could be wearing a hat so you'll think I'm a dork or because I am a dork. Either you can fly or you can't. The hat doesn't make any difference, and enought of us don't wear them now that the public no longer equates hats with position.

 

[agonyairfo]

Exec jet pilots are some of the best dressed pilots. They don't wear hats. I feel like a big goof in my oversized hat and one size fits all polyester uniform. Sky caps wear hats. CEO's don't. Burger flippers wear hats, professors and doctors do not. Additionally, with all these young pilots now (myself included) a hat makes you look like some kind of wannabe. It takes off about 5 years too. I feel like I am playing dress up.
Southwest's no hat policy has obviously taken its toll on passenger perception and subsequent ticket sales, right?
That being said, I would gladly wear a hat and button as many buttons as they could stuff on my blazer (Delta) if I could be a DC-8 or a Clipper captain back in the day with a crew of smoking southern belles in the back. Times have changed.
I would like a nice business type suit that fits well.
Sorry for rambling. Early show, couple of drinks yada...
While we are talking about hat usage and its impact on public perception, maybe it is time to ask what painting a classic 737 white and orange and slapping a big Hooters sign on the side makes the flying public think about us in general.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But seriously. With everyone complaining about the low wages, and horrible QOL...you're honestly fighting management about wearing your hats?
Maybe you should put more time and energy negotiating higher pay or QOL, than about a hat you have to wear in view of the public.
I guess being an airline pilot these days, is all about a fashion contest to see who can look the "coolest"
IMHO

Back on track.... actually this is the point. There is no fight with management. The only input management has is indirect in that they want to get rid of that hat cause it makes pilots less unique. Nothing special about you, nothing special about your pay...

More time and money spent in negotiations is useless if the public and management thinks we are sloppy or not unique as pilots. This is the very point. Dress like you are worth 200K and you have a better chance of negotiating it. Or work rules or whatever is important to you...

Dress like a Flight attentant and gate agent....get paid closer to one...

We can easily control apperance and behavior....

I just don't get why pilots don"t want to present the image of...a Pilot.

What is this backlash about guys that want to wear hats are ego maniacs or on a power trip? The hat is a pain to wear but it is also a symbol. Are the anti hat group embarrassed to be pilots? Anyone with a pysc degree?

Give me a good reason not to wear the hats besides

I hate, burned it, pissed on it....
FOD bait

 

[Falconjet]

I think you have heard plenty of reasons against the hat. Put me in as another 20+ year military hat-wearing, right wing conservative old man who absolutely hates wearing a hat. I also don't think wearing the hat has any bearing on the public's perception of our professionalism. Plus, being a cargo weenie, the public very rarely sees me anyway.

I will say this, when I check my bags for a deadhead trip I only use the skycaps that wear hats, because I'm sure that they are more professional than those that don't.

Ok, that last part was sarcastic, if you couldn't tell, but the point should be obvious.

At FedEx the hat and service dress type jacket are both optional, and I think that is the way to go. I personally prefer the leather jacket and have seen guys look like slobs in the service dress jacket and the leather jacket. The individual can display their pride in themselves and their professionalism in whatever they are dressed in. Some doctors, nurses or PTs look quite dapper in their scrubs, others just look like slobs. Same thing.

My personal opinion is that the flying public really couldn't care less about whether you are wearing a hat or not.

And they say that ours is a country divided!

FJ

 

[Garf]

I choose to wear the hat because I am proud to be an " Airline Pilot".

The hat is part of the Airline Uniform.