No More Hats at ExpressJet

[Air Biscuit]

Perhaps I got it figured out....

Pay a pilot 300K to fly big jets, with defined benefit plan, great healthcare, bennies, etc.. and he will wear a 17th century ship hat with feathers in it and you can call him a Clipper Capt....or whatever you want....

Lay the pilot off, destroy his career expectations, put him debt, get him a divorce and he'll take that airline hat, light it on fire and throw it freesbie style into the nearest dumpster......

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[Cosmo1999]

He'll take that airline hat, light it on fire and throw it freesbie style into the nearest dumpster......

Now your talkin my friend! We should find the most creative ways to get rid of the hat.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Fine, don't wear the hat.
Be mistaken as a flight attendant, wearing the same wings as him or her, and using the same type of roller board.

Fine, be a moron.
Be mistaken for a turbonerd who feels the hat is the only thing that defines the airline pilot. Totally ignore the stripes, and that big box flight case.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

Remember, all the hat natzis are either:

A. Balding
B. Hung like a gerbel

If you dont like me not wearing my hat, well you can suck my a$$. If you acually had the balls to approach me, you would get a FU right back.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

As far as the contract goes we will know in less than a week as to the final vote. My vote is a big fat no. It is a giant step backwards as far as hard pay, less than you guys and duration of the contract.

How is it a "step backwards" Air Biscuit? We added 30% cost increases to the pilot contract in the first 12 months of the TA (not counting another $30.6 million of retro wages paid at Comair rates for the past 26 months, which is back to the amendable date).

The union and ALPA are using scare tactics into getting people to vote yes. Basically saying that we will never be released under Bush and that is what it will take to do any better, so we better lock in the slight gains now and live with it.

Wrong Air Biscuit. We are not saying that we will "never be released." We are saying that we have zero confidence that we will see a release in the next 6-12 months. Please don't put words in our mouths for the internet world to read that we didn't actually say.

Secondly, what "scare tactics" are we using to get people to vote yes? We (the NC, MEC, SPC, ALPA advisors) all believe that locking in the gains made under this TA outweighs the risks associated with holding out for more (something that may or may not be there). Pilots are free to vote however they wish. We just want people to a) vote and b) vote in an informed and rational manner...not using emotion.

-Neal

Neal Schwartz
XJT ALPA Negotiating Committee Chairman

 

[BlackPilot628]

I'm with Rex. Some people wear them at and some people don't.
I don't think my company is big on the idea of doing so or not.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
Perhaps I got it figured out....

Pay a pilot 300K to fly big jets, with defined benefit plan, great healthcare, bennies, etc.. and he will wear a 17th century ship hat with feathers in it and you can call him a Clipper Capt....or whatever you want....

Lay the pilot off, destroy his career expectations, put him debt, get him a divorce and he'll take that airline hat, light it on fire and throw it freesbie style into the nearest dumpster......

You hit the nail on the head!

And this is my point......nailed... Pilots are reactive to the issue of their image. They'd rather be a product of thier environment......

Look at the NRA. They are so effective as a special interest group. We could be like that....for the issue of our career, but we are not, cause we are not organized, effective and educated.

We can have so much more control...but we can't even see the value in promoting our image....

It is tough to keep wearing that damm hat when our careers are circling the dump valve...

but the trick is not to give in and keep fighting for what we worked hard for...

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

HAHAHA! aaahhh You're an idiot.

1.For me to get an FU right back, I would have to approach you with an FU to start with.

2. Sounds like you have a thing for men. Somehow you know how they're hung, if they wear a hat or not. Then you want another GUY to suck you a$$

And its NAZI....there is no "T"
Time to shut you mouth, and stick your head back up your butt.

With that avatar and " need some wood" signature it looks like your the one with a limp wrist.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Not picking on you personally Rez; it's just that your comments best served to illustrate my problems with this issue:

The hat or the pilot, rather, is better respected. Tell me who doesn't want to be respected?...

Frankly, I don't want respect for its own sake. Those that do are egomaniacal tools. I only care about respect if it's coming from someone that I respect - anyone else's opinion of me is meaningless to me. And I honestly can't respect someone who would form an opinion of a pilot or a person based on their dress code. Silliness.

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]
I don’t want to be clumped together with corporate pilots, 135 pilots or especially Sky Cab taxi pilots. I want to be known as an Airline Pilot, who happens to be the safest, most professional group of aviators in the world.

[/font]

This is just an a**hole elitist statement. You don't want to be confused with those "other pilots", who supposedly are inherently less skilled than you? I'll tell you something: I've been very fortunate to experience a very broad spectrum of the aviation world thus far, and the truth is... 121 flying is the least challenging, most pre-ordained flying there is. Thus, it follows that 121 pilots are the least skilled at thinking and flying outside the box. Now, this is only my opinion, but it's based on a good bit of experience in trying to transition all sorts of pilots into challenging airplanes: 121 pilots, in general, are the poorest stick-and-rudder pilots out there. That's not a slam, just an observation that I've heard many other folks with similar experience make as well. It's ok for the 121 world, because we are very rarely called upon to be exceptional stick-and-rudder pilots... but how arrogant to think yourself somehow "above" another pilot who doesn't wear a hat, and who also might be quite a bit more skilled!

Lastly, here's a comment from another board regarding this issue... I found it funny as hell:
"I mean I read a thread the other day about the hat now being optional at Xjet and you should have seen the responses on how the hat signifies the professionalism of the industry and seperates us "121" pilots from the rest of those "other" pilots. ITS A HAT. I was walking in Manhattan recently and I saw a guy wearing that hat. HE WAS A DOORMAN."



Oh, and now there's a response on the other board to that quote above. Also funny and applicable:
"That's the funniest thing I've read all day. I paid my way through school and flight training working as a doorman at a fancy hotel. I always figured the 121 pilots were trying to look like doormen since we made more money."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Stearman,

Good feedback....

Please don't confuse personal beliefs with an image that needs to be conveyed to the public. I don't think I am better than other types of pilots. But if management believes that we are the same as other pilots that make less it is harder to negotiate for higher pay. Higher pay is ok... isn't it?

Let's not confuse the issue, the hat is only a symbol it isn't reality. Image is everything. It doesn't matter if you failed your checkride last week, what matters is what the pax believe! (btw, Stick and rudder skills are not really needed in 121 flying. Autopilot on at 600ft and off at 80ft says it all.)

You can't convince your passengers you are the best and safest if you don't think you are... And you can't convince managment to pay you more either, if you don't think you are worth it.. In other words if you are indifferent about your profession then expect indifferent pay.

This is similar to the fighter jock mentality. These guys are feed that they are the best. Well they can't go into a dog fight thinking any less. And you don't want your negotiating team and the general public thinking any less either...

Look I am not advocating inflated egos... That is done automatically with the Joe Cool self induced "mavericks"

What I am advocating is the airline pilot profession and the hope of keeping this career alive. Does anyone have any ideas to do that? The industry keeps jacking us DOWN! Are we going to stay adrift in this sea of change waiting and hoping for good fortunes to return? The best pilots can say right now is "well at least I got a job" Well, what about a career? Who are you waiting for to "give" you your career back?

Nobody cares more about pilots than pilots. The only people that are going to save the airline pilot career is us...

The hat is just the start... We are under organized and under educated.... There is going to be a lot more divorce, personal bankruptcy, debt, depression and a little suicide before anything gets done.....if at all.....

 

[Stearmandriver]

Rez,

Good feedback to my feedback. Where we disagree is that I don't think a symbol like the hat matters. I don't think image is everything; I think reality is. What matters is not looking like professionals, but acting like them. Fly safe, put customer service at the top of your priorities, and do your job the way the folks who write your paycheck want it done. Personally, I'm glad Xjet made the hat optional, cause I never liked it. However, when it was required, I always wore it. They pay me after all (albeit not nearly enough).

Otherwise, good post and I agree with everything else.

 

[COEX-FO]

This thread is interesting. As I work for the 'hat optional' airline, no one has mentioned how the PASSENGERS dressed in the days of the white hat Pan Am crew era!

Passsengers used to wear suits and ties, ladies in dresses. Pilots in full uniform with hats! First class was always a suit, perhaps a sport coat and tie in the back.

Have any of you passed by a SWA gate lately just before boarding? Check out the pax. I'm mean some of them truly stretch the limits of socially acceptable dress. Even on the high ticket price airlines, the first class passengers these days seem to find jeans as the norm.

So, perhaps the hat is the 'proper' attire for airline crews, but as compared to the old days, we still stand out even with the summer uniform of shirt, tie and dress black pants.

Just another way of looking at how things have evolved in the dress arena for airline travel.

 

[Nick5600]

Geez If we must keep the cap, and 19th century uniform lets change some other things back as well. I say we get rid of girlie pilots, and all flight attendents must be attractive women who have a RN. LETS get freaking real here. It doesn't really matter, I fly some of that top 2% salary bracket around, and they could give a SH^T what I wear. They just want to get their safley and quickly. I think in airline industry you guys have a bit more important stuff to worry about... Like your paycheck. I would put money on the fact that the same ones that HAVE to have the NAZI cap are also the same ones that think women have no place in cockpit. Well look around you times are changing, and while you cling on to your so called professional looks, your airline is going tits up. Then again when you get that pink slip it will be easy to walk down the Street and get a job as a doorman at the hotel where the logical modern pilots overnights.

my .02cents on the issue.

 

[ERJ2FLY]

Exjet management said "no way" when Gordon (in an effort to completely disassociate XJet from CAL) wanted them wearing WHITE hats. Yes, WHITE hats.

If you want to verify, call Jimmy N. He'll tell you the story.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

How can you guys have such a long thread about the fuking cover? Unless your signature is at the bottom of your paycheck, wear the uniform your company prescribes....

I agree 100%.

And whats with some of the airlines I see issuing military leather to the pilots???

Many airlines allow the leather jacket. SWA, AA, XJT, and Comair are a few. It is far more functional than the blazer. We've gotten many compliments from passengers on the jacket...and I like wearing it because I don't have to carry a second jacket for the layover, etc...plus it is really warm. But I do believe the blazer looks better. Go figure. I go with function over form.

You're driving a bus not an F-XX or B-XX....

Do you wear your G-1 when you're in that T-45?

-Neal