No more Europe flights

[JJET44]

Just curious,
Have many flight departments stop flying into Europe or are planing on stopping or reducing flights due to ETS and the price of fuel?
At my current company we bought a challenger several years ago with plans to start flying over but soon after fuel prices started to skyrocket and ETS was proposed and we changed our minds.
My last company stopped going over to Europe just before I was hired for the same reason.
At both companies the mind set is why spend upwards of $40,000 per trip when you could buy a 1st class ticket for around $5'000.

 

[Bleeds On]

I thought I'd read that, although it's a scam, it wasn't going to add an unbearable amount to the trip. Is anyone using a reporting company or just doing it yourself?

 

[JJET44]

I was just in recurrent with an owner-operator and he said that The EU is charging or going to charge operators carbon cridits for the whole trip not just for the portion flown in the EU........example if you burn 15,000 lbs for a trip from TEB to London, they charge you for the full 15,0000lbs. He also said they over estimate burns. He had a trip from TEB to somewhere in the EU and they estimated his burn in a Challenger 601 was 21,000lbs. His 601 only holds about 17,700lbs.
Now I believe it's up to you to make any and all corrections.

 

[Rick1128]

Maybe its time we start charging all the European airlines road tax on their whole flight. Two can play the same game. We've been the nice guy way too long.

 

[JJET44]

How about a $50 customs fee for all non US citizens upon entry.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just curious,
Have many flight departments stop flying into Europe or are planing on stopping or reducing flights due to ETS and the price of fuel?
At my current company we bought a challenger several years ago with plans to start flying over but soon after fuel prices started to skyrocket and ETS was proposed and we changed our minds.
My last company stopped going over to Europe just before I was hired for the same reason.
At both companies the mind set is why spend upwards of $40,000 per trip when you could buy a 1st class ticket for around $5'000.

Then why own your own jet?...You can take the airlines anywhere. You can go Southwest Airlines NY-LA for $450...why take the Challenger at $25,000?

Fuel is very expensive in Europe...and its expected that we shop it carefully and suggest alternates as needed...but the day we hangar the jet and the boss takes United Airlines because its cheaper (ya think??)....I would be polishing up that resume.

Gripe and moan and complain about the costs?...somewhat normal...actually cancelling trips and taking the airlines?...somewhat concerning.

 

[Bleeds On]

According to ProPilot mag(yeah I read it sometimes), each credit is going for $21.50 and a 2500 lb/hr fuel burn costs you about 3-4 credits/hour. Then the compliance costs. Yeah, a total scam. So then....take our last trip for example. Iceland, Norway, Russia...THEN the EU. Where do they start keeping tabs for that? This could get all sorts of ridiculous.

 

[gern_blanston]

...the day we hangar the jet and the boss takes United Airlines because its cheaper (ya think??)....I would be polishing up that resume.

Gripe and moan and complain about the costs?...somewhat normal...actually cancelling trips and taking the airlines?...somewhat concerning.

What he said.

 

[rice]

There are ways to beat the EU ETS, 135 being one of them. Not advocating it but worth looking into for some 91 operators.

 

[JJET44]

You're absolutely right G200. I'll tell the boss to pack it up and sell the airplane because we shouldn't use the company jet on domestic trips only. C-mon Man!!! We fly a lot. I'm not worried.

 

[gern_blanston]

You're absolutely right G200. I'll tell the boss to pack it up and sell the airplane because we shouldn't use the company jet on domestic trips only.

Well you gotta' admit that it does sound pretty bizarre when you tell a bunch of yo-yos that you don't know (us) that two companies in a row have had the coin and the desire to buy and operate an old Challenger and then both change their minds and cheap-out over a couple thousand extra bucks for fuel on Europe trips that they supposedly bought the jets for in the 1st place, and then expect us not to compare you to our own organizations; organizations that react like, uh, "Hey, Gern... I know it's gonna' cost us $70 grand instead of $68 grand to do our scheduled Paris run on the 12th... See you on the 12th."
Definitely a non sequitur you've got goin' there.

 

[X-rated]

The problem is there are too many owners who can't really afford these airplanes, so they buy and old airplane and try to make their flight department work on a shoestring budget. I fly to Europe a couple times a month and have never heard a single complaint about any legitimate operating expense. It costs what it costs. Maybe the airline is the best choice for your owner, but I doubt it. I don't know how old or inexpensive your Challenger was to purchase, but I suspect when you consider the capital cost and fixed costs, it won't makes sense to leave the airplane sitting in the hangar instead of paying the marginally higher direct operating cost. Yes, it's more expensive to operate to Europe, but paying for the airplane, hangar, insurance, maintenance and flight department only to then jump on United Airlines to save a dollar is just insane!

Without question, the airlines are far cheaper both domestically and internationally. The question is why did your owner buy an airplane in the first plance? If he was trying to save some money, you're in serious trouble.

 

[BoilerUP]

If they are gonna gig you for the whole trip from the US, and costs are a concern, why not just tech stop in Shannon and get their cheaper fuel and start the ETS clock there?

Don't forget the last two letters of ETS stand for "trading scheme"...

 

[con-pilot]

If they are gonna gig you for the whole trip from the US, and costs are a concern, why not just tech stop in Shannon and get their cheaper fuel and start the ETS clock there?

Don't forget the last two letters of ETS stand for "trading scheme"...

Really should stand for 'theving scheme'...

 

[Ben Stiller]

EINN won't do it...you must land in EGNS. You're trip will begin there and save tons of $$. Only a matter of time until they plug that gap I'm sure.

 

[AA717driver]

EINN won't do it...you must land in EGNS. You're trip will begin there and save tons of $$. Only a matter of time until they plug that gap I'm sure.

I don't know. There are a whole lot of "gaps" extant in the IOM that have, so far, gone un-plugged.

Here's hoping!

TC

 

[JJET44]

Looks like the Chinese Gov. Just kicked Airbus in the nu+$ over ETS

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4ce5aa0-9e4b-11e0-8e61-00144feabdc0.html

 

[jet2work]

If anyone can put an end to the ETS madness, it will have to be the Chinese. They are not infected with political correctness and don't care what the French and Germans think of them (for good reason too). As for Europe, other than sightseeing or taking personal delivery of your new Porshe and ringing it out on the autobahn, why go? The business opportunity there pales in comparison to Asia.

Maybe we can make the tax retroactive and charge the Europeans for all the emissions produced by the last two world wars they hosted.

 

[gern_blanston]

Maybe we can make the tax retroactive and charge the Europeans for all the emissions produced by the last two world wars they hosted.

Post of the month. Outstanding.

 

[G100driver]

Does anyone know how much more a 2100 nm flight into to EU will cost?

Also, BTW, I cannot believe that anyone who can own a challenger would have a problem with affording these costs ... We are talking about a couple bottles of good wine here ...