No MDA pilots take Republic deal..

[Traumahawk]

Another CFI that knows everything.

Well when you've got some former GIA PFT jerk trying to be the keynote speaker on an issue he knows thing about, and takes stabs at your entire pilot group of which he knows...um, 2 people, you might get defensive.

By the way, every CFI I ever worked with knows way more than the ignorant jerk I'm speaking of. And I don't think poopy pants has been a CFI for QUITE a while.

T-hawk

 

[Bart Simpson]

I am in LaLaLand.

 

[Swaayze]

Well I for one am proud of my fellow U furloughees and WO escapees at MAA. Right or wrong, win or lose, it's nice to see some solidarity and a push for what's right. I like to think I'd have the stones to stand with you if I were there!

 

[FlyingDawg]

"...the fact that some chose poorly"

I'm sorry. Could you just explain to me exactly what decision they made that you believe was "poor"?

Scope limitations on regional jets. This has allowed Delta to slowly take away passengers in every small city between ATL and BOS. In cities that US was the dominate carrier, DL has slowly become the carrier of choice. Look at GSP, AVL, LYH, RIC, GSO, RDU, HKY, TYS, CHA, CHS, and CAE just to name a few. They when they finally allowed RJs it was too late. Now LUV smells blood and goes for the jugular in the hubs.

Parity + 1%. A contract to keep payrates above the average of 4 airlines that were twice the size of US. They tried to compete contractually with carriers that flew from coast to coast, yet they hardly flew past the Mississippi river. Long range routes are the bread and butter of most legacy carriers.

You gotta allow you employer to profit if you want to stay in business. These two decisions spelled doom for US.

 

[stb]

What I dont understand is how many pilots are flying for REP today?

How can CHQ 121 cerificate pilots work for a new unissued REP 121 cetificate ask for their CHQ date of hire when in fact they will be working for essentially a new airline?

If a CHQ pilot gets transfered to the REP certificate, will they have to go through REP indoc and some form of training? Sign new 2 year $15,000 training contract for the new company?

If MDA was getting absorbed by the CHQ 121 certificate, I could understand the "super senority" battle cry.

The argument of the same company owns both airlines thats why the senority list should be the same.
Explain why Delta owns Comair and ASA, AMR owns American and AE, USAir Group owns Usairways, PSA and PDT/ALG. All have their seperate senority list but owned by a larger corporation.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

FlyingDawg:

Scope limitations on regional jets. Did you know that EVERY contract has scope? Scope is the language that defines WHO does the work. There was NEVER a limitation on how many "regional" jets US Airways could fly. The ONLY limitation was who could do the flying. US Airways could have gone out and bought 1000 regional jets in the mid-90s --- they simply had to be flown by US Airways pilots. In fact, they already had a payrate (group 4) based on F28 and BAe 146 pay. (roughly 80 seats). Denouncing "scope" is popular fiction.

Fact is, management wanted to outsource jobs to a cheaper bidder. As you can see, they were successful.

Of the cities you mentioned GSP, AVL, RIC, GSO, RDU, TYS, CHA, CHS, and CAE were ALL served by "regional" jets for YEAAAARS before you started working for Chatauqua. They were served by F28s, F100s, and DC9s. Those were, in fact, "regional jets". They were simply flown by US Airways pilots and not by the lowest bidder.

Parity + 1%. May I remind you that this was Stephen Wolf's idea? It takes TWO to sign a contract. If Brian Bedford came to you guys and said, "hey guys -- I want to start paying you $100/hr to fly the E145" would you tell him, "no. I'm scared that you might not be profitable if you pay me that much!"

No, you let management manage the company. Both sides signed the contract. Not ONE of the 99-01 newhires were on the property as of the date of that signing.

You said, "You gotta allow you employer to profit if you want to stay in business. These two decisions spelled doom for US."
With all due respect, were you even out of flight school in 1997/98 when the parity contract was negotiated? US Airways definately had some network problems that needed to be addressed -- but not the two you focused on.

 

[jaybird]

What I dont understand is how many pilots are flying for REP today?

How can CHQ 121 cerificate pilots work for a new unissued REP 121 cetificate ask for their CHQ date of hire when in fact they will be working for essentially a new airline?

If a CHQ pilot gets transfered to the REP certificate, will they have to go through REP indoc and some form of training? Sign new 2 year $15,000 training contract for the new company?

If MDA was getting absorbed by the CHQ 121 certificate, I could understand the "super senority" battle cry.

The argument of the same company owns both airlines thats why the senority list should be the same.
Explain why Delta owns Comair and ASA, AMR owns American and AE, USAir Group owns Usairways, PSA and PDT/ALG. All have their seperate senority list but owned by a larger corporation.

This is the exact reason why you clowns dog our contract. This is what we had to stop. Our company wanted to start an alter ego airline, non union, similiar to TSA and GJs. We had to sacrifice pay to get all flying under RAH by pilots on the CHQ master seniority list.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Oh, and by the way Flyingdawg,

I believe that Stickman (page 5 of this thread) wasn't referring to scope or parity when he talked about, "...the fact that some chose poorly"

He did not come back and discuss his meaning so we are left to speculate -- but I believe that he meant that the decision to accept employment with US Airways was a poor decision.

Now I dont know if Stickman has a crystal ball, or other such Harry Potter magic, but if any of you folks were AROUND in 1999 you might have seen a very different world.

US Airways was taking delivery of a new airbus every week. They were hiring 100 pilots per MONTH. The CEO was known throughout aviation history for cleaning up and then merging airlines. After a 7 year hiatus in hiring, US Airways would offer the fastest upgrades of any major airline.

The airlines that you folks fall all over each other to fly for today weren't even on the career pilots radar screen. Jetblue did not exist. AirTran had just furloughed (Oct 98') and was still a dirtbag company.

To say that the decision to go fly for US Airways in 1999 was a poor one is frankly silly.

What would YOU have done?

 

[Crzipilot]

Parity + 1%. A contract to keep payrates above the average of 4 airlines that were twice the size of US. They tried to compete contractually with carriers that flew from coast to coast, yet they hardly flew past the Mississippi river. Long range routes are the bread and butter of most legacy carriers.

You gotta allow you employer to profit if you want to stay in business. These two decisions spelled doom for US.

don't let reality hit you in the face. but the parity+1% was shoved down alpa throats by management, it was their idea. It wasn't till after it resulted in pay raises that some of the alpa group started saying what a great idea it was. either way...at the time, prior to UAl and DAL getting their big pay raise contracts.....the 1% would have been a pay cut I believe.

 

[FlyingDawg]

FlyingDawg:

With all due respect, were you even out of flight school in 1997/98 when the parity contract was negotiated? US Airways definately had some network problems that needed to be addressed -- but not the two you focused on.

Already flying 121 service. Never applied to US. I wasn't impressed by their 10-K statements. I saw many of my fellow CHQ pilots leave to go to US. I thought US had too many in training during the Airbus buildup and thought they might furlough when Boeing products were cast aside. It just seemed that they were trying to fill a void while they transitioned to Airbus. I have since seen too many of those pilots leave come back to CHQ.

I agree that probably that wasn't what was meant by making poor choices. But going to US wasn't exactly the best decision to be made. My economics degree leads me to investigate the financials of any company before making such a leap.

 

[RP170]

So then you haven't flown the 170 yet????

Why does it matter? He will be within a month. He knows a whole lot more about the airplane than you do.

 

[RP170]

PCL_128,

Unless you are completely out of it, you must realize by now you have lost all credibility on this board. You made the PFT mistake, and now feel that you can rationalize your actions by dancing on the ALPA/MDA/U/CHQ soapbox. You continue to dig yourself into a hole.

If you feel the need to post something useful, create a new username. We are more likely to believe someone posting their first message, then listening to you.

I agree. I don't know how someone can be bashing on CHQ that is a PFT CRJ FO at Pinnacle. That's nothing to be proud of. Do I sense jealousy?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Flyingdawg,

Then we were working there at the same time. Why don't you PM me your name. I'd be interested in knowing which one of the Chautauqua originals had the crystal ball!

 

[AutoCars Armed]

Don't get me started on PFT that could be another post in itself as I worked my way of the ranks trough the CFI and freight dawg route.

 

[Stick Man]

Oh, and by the way Flyingdawg,

I believe that Stickman (page 5 of this thread) wasn't referring to scope or parity when he talked about, "...the fact that some chose poorly"

He did not come back and discuss his meaning so we are left to speculate -- but I believe that he meant that the decision to accept employment with US Airways was a poor decision.

Now I dont know if Stickman has a crystal ball, or other such Harry Potter magic, but if any of you folks were AROUND in 1999 you might have seen a very different world.

US Airways was taking delivery of a new airbus every week. They were hiring 100 pilots per MONTH. The CEO was known throughout aviation history for cleaning up and then merging airlines. After a 7 year hiatus in hiring, US Airways would offer the fastest upgrades of any major airline.

The airlines that you folks fall all over each other to fly for today weren't even on the career pilots radar screen. Jetblue did not exist. AirTran had just furloughed (Oct 98') and was still a dirtbag company.

To say that the decision to go fly for US Airways in 1999 was a poor one is frankly silly.

What would YOU have done?

I wasn't, I did, and I do. And for the record, I would never have gone to the former OWNERS of MAA. (AKA US AIRWAYS). The handwriting was on the wall, is on the wall, and is now just being re-written on the wall.

Or . . . so says my crystal ball.

 

[stb]

To say that the decision to go fly for US Airways in 1999 was a poor one is frankly silly.

What would YOU have done?

Something tells me that FlyingDawg was not offered a job after their interview with USAirways.

Benefit of the doubt Flyingdawg, which airline TODAY offered you a flying position would you accept and not accept?

 

[blzr]

Parity + 1%. May I remind you that this was Stephen Wolf's idea? It takes TWO to sign a contract.
Furlough, Are you telling me that Wolf put that in the contract? The is a moron, I'll grant you that, but I don't think even he was dumb enough to put that in the contract.

The reason it was granted is because they (management) were well into the United merger and basically would have agreed to give you space shuttle rates if you had put them in the contract, just to shut you up.

Yes, it is managements fault for agreeing to the deal, but if I'm not mistaken, the pilots all threatened to walk if the deal was not signed. The union held the upper hand and management went along with it.

Also, I have not a clue what the F-28 rates were to fly the RJ's. Could you post them sometime.

US.Air did fly some of the biggest RJ's back in 2000-2002. Clt-GSO-CLT, I flew in a Dash behind a 757. Nothing like a 190 seat rj flying half full on a 200 mile rnd trip.

 

[Capt.PoopyPants]

Another CFI that knows everything.

Yes I do. Including the fact that you are a douche.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Blzr,

When Wolf PROPOSED parity plus 1% the UAL merger was not even on the radar screen.

You said, "...If I'm not mistaken, the pilots all threatened to walk if the deal was not signed. The union held the upper hand..."

USAir ALPA has never had the upper hand in any negotiation. Too much division in the ranks due to multiple mergers. Wolf shoved parity +1% down the pilots throats.

Here's the F28 (group 4) rates you asked for:

Year F/O
2 $46.21
5 $60.96
10 $67.94
top $69.80

Year Capt
2 $92.42
5 $95.10
10 $99.77
top $102.19

min 12 days off
78 hr guarantee for short-call reserve
75 hr guarantee for reserve

Min line value 71 hrs
Max line value 85 hrs

By the way...this agreement was signed in January of 1998. The United merger was announced in May of 2000.

 

["TheBigPicture"]

S5....??

MDA.....??

CHQ=Screw everybody you can


You guys make me sick

 

[Crzipilot]

Furloughed,

Well I was about to post something trite and cute....but tired today. Parity +1% was forced on the pilots, and the pilots had nightmares over it for about 2 yrs up to the Parity review date. The data came out....pay raises...management had a heart attack..the pilots trumpted their horns.....all politics.

As to the guy that said he didn't want to goto US air due to reading the 10-k's etc....well give him the benefit of the doubt....though hard to imagine saying..CHQ is a better gig then taking the shot at a major. THOUGH I do know quite a few guys that turned their noses up at UAL and SWA etc..during the 80's.....said there's no way in *ell they woulda worked at those places......but then the 90's UAL was THE place to get hired....then AA etc........it's all cyclic....UPS....now hot....used to be so-so........

 

[Traumahawk]

S5....??

MDA.....??

CHQ=Screw everybody you can


You guys make me sick

Uhh, you obviously don't have "THE BIG PICTURE"

 

[FurloughedAgain]

The question, Crzipilot, is:

Was Chautauqua a better gig than US Airways in 1999?

Remember that was before the RJs...

before the multiple code-shares...

the company was still operating the Jetstreams...

Now there WERE people at Chautauqa in 99' who were better off at CHQ. Their quality of life was better at least. The difference in long-term pay was offset by their schedule and their ability to live where they wanted. Speaking specifically of the folks in upstate New York or Indy who were happy where they were.

Aside from those few people, nobody else had the vision to say that Chautauqua would become something more! As far as we knew it was destined to be what Colgan is today -- if we were LUCKY. There was no way to foresee what it would become.

One thing you and I agree on 100%

"but then the 90's UAL was THE place to get hired....then AA etc........it's all cyclic....UPS....now hot....used to be so-so........"

You're absolutely right. And I believe that the folks at airlines like AirTran and Jetblue will learn that lesson in the next decade or two.

 

[Flash]

Aside from those few people, nobody else had the vision to say that Chautauqua would become something more! As far as we knew it was destined to be what Colgan is today -- if we were LUCKY. There was no way to foresee what it would become

It has come a long way, that I will give you, but it's like playing ball and moving from a-aa-aaa, it's still the minors. And like Toby says, that means minor pay!

 

[kngarthur]

S5....??

MDA.....??

CHQ=Screw everybody you can


You guys make me sick

He's just jealous!

 

[ERJDRVR2]

S5....??

MDA.....??

CHQ=Screw everybody you can


You guys make me sick

Glad we could help..................

 

[FlyingDawg]

Something tells me that FlyingDawg was not offered a job after their interview with USAirways.

Benefit of the doubt Flyingdawg, which airline TODAY offered you a flying position would you accept and not accept?

Didn't apply to US.

Just look at any airline just like you would a stock investment. Earnings isn't everything. Cash is.

Most important is Cash from Operations. This adds back those noncash expenses. Depreciation on aircraft and equipment can add up!

Net Cash Flow should also be considered.

Good Bets: LUV, CAL, ALK

Bad Bets: DAL, NWAC, UAL, U

Just a quick note in addition to $44 million in earnings, RJET had $116 million in cash flow from ops and $24 million in net cash flow. Not too bad of a place to hang out until the airline duststorm settles.

Back to the topic.

 

[RP170]

Didn't apply to US.

Just look at any airline just like you would a stock investment. Earnings isn't everything. Cash is.

Most important is Cash from Operations. This adds back those noncash expenses. Depreciation on aircraft and equipment can add up!

Net Cash Flow should also be considered.

Good Bets: LUV, CAL, ALK

Bad Bets: DAL, NWAC, UAL, U

Just a quick note in addition to $44 million in earnings, RJET had $116 million in cash flow from ops and $24 million in net cash flow. Not too bad of a place to hang out until the airline duststorm settles.

Back to the topic.

I agree, especially since Wexford Capital is involved. There is big financial backing when you have the likes of Warren Buffet running the show at Wexford. Republic Holdings will never be hurting for cash and Buffet wouldn't be involved if he felt this was the case. I was doing my sim training up in Montreal and our Flight Safety instructor (retired UAL guy) said he read an article where a financial analyst stated that after all the dust settles in the industry (ie. mergers) there will be 2 regionals that will have a stronghold on the market: Republic Holdings and Skywest. I know that's not saying much since it's coming from an industry analyst but interesting none the less.