No Jumpseat at Virgin America?

[FlyHigher]

Just got off the phone with their reservation line. The lady told me no jumpseaters from any airline - not in front nor back. Well, I guess they are not CASS yet, but not even in the back? How do their pilots commute?

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Reservation people are often misinformed and ignorant of the JS process. I had an VA pilot in my JS a few weeks ago and yes they are CASS. We had seats in the back so he did not actually occupy the cockpit JS. Being CASS is independent of having reciprocal JS agreements with individual airlines. If the carrier is 121 but has no formal recip. JS agreements then it maybe captain's discretion depending on the airline.

 

[FlyHigher]

Great. Now do they have reciprocal JS agreements or do they let any 121 or CASS participant ride?

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

The majority of their pilots do commute so it's to their best interest to sign up as many recip JS agreements as possible. I just confirmed that VA does have recip js agreement with us. I think it would be stupid for VA to turn down any 121 carrier pilot trying to js on them. Typically as the new kid on the block new carriers are pretty liberal with their JS policy.

 

[slavenaway]

Just got off the phone with their reservation line. The lady told me no jumpseaters from any airline - not in front nor back. Well, I guess they are not CASS yet, but not even in the back? How do their pilots commute?

We have many recip agreements already on the books. Odds are you had someone that was misinformed.
There are 2 jumpseats in the Airbus (as usual). 1st is for online pilots, if no VA pilot is there, it goes first-come-first-served for offline pilots with recip CASS agreements. The other seat is set-up via internal reservations by the VA pilots. If the 2nd is not going to be occupied by a VA pilot, what happens is exactly that of the 1st seat.

As stated before, we have many agreements already functioning but I know that we don't have one set-up with UAL right now. Still working on it.

 

[b82rez]

There are 2 jumpseats in the Airbus (as usual). 1st is for online pilots, if no VA pilot is there, it goes first-come-first-served for offline pilots with recip CASS agreements. The other seat is set-up via internal reservations by the VA pilots. If the 2nd is not going to be occupied by a VA pilot, what happens is exactly that of the 1st seat.

You must be a lawyer.

Translation: VA pilots get the JS first

 

[slavenaway]

Translation: VA pilots get the JS first

You make it sound like a bad thing. Why would any carrier take an offline pilot in the JS before a pilot of their own?
Kinda a standard policy I've experienced from commuting in the past.

 

[enigma]

You make it sound like a bad thing. Why would any carrier take an offline pilot in the JS before a pilot of their own?
Kinda a standard policy I've experienced from commuting in the past.

I think you mis-read b82res. I thought that he was jerking your chain for being too wordy

 

[slavenaway]

I think you mis-read b82res. I thought that he was jerking your chain for being too wordy

Yeah, probably. A bad late night/early morning combination.

I also heard a little thing about a walk-up JSer being turned away because the agent didn't know we had agreements set-up. If that happens, please just be nice and see if that person could check with a supervisor about it.

What else?

 

[cruxx@9]

So many questions...so little space....

 

[slavenaway]

I'll answer what I can.
Odds are that if any of you guys get to talking to the CA and Guest Services agrees, you'll get on even without an agreement. As stated above, we are trying to get agreements with anyone who wants to ride on us.
Oh, here's something to know. The first class is for revenue only. No online or offlines JSers, no deadheaders, no company execs or VPs or anything like that.

 

[Bluto]

So if the only seats available are in first, JS'ers will get left behind?

 

[Beetle007]

The first class is for revenue only. No online or offlines JSers, no deadheaders, no company execs or VPs or anything like that.

That is a horrible policy. The top execs don't care because they still have first class travel (for life) on their previous airlines.

I guess that tells you what the company really thinks of you (as an employee) when they won't even let you ride in an OPEN "first class" seat.

 

[slavenaway]

That is a horrible policy. The top execs don't care because they still have first class travel (for life) on their previous airlines.

I guess that tells you what the company really thinks of you (as an employee) when they won't even let you ride in an OPEN "first class" seat.

Wow. Unbelievable. Maybe I'm done providing informaiton.

 

[slavenaway]

So if the only seats available are in first, JS'ers will get left behind?

Unfortunately, yes -- Unless you are on CASS with an agreement.

 

[Beetle007]

Wow. Unbelievable. Maybe I'm done providing informaiton.

I am just disappointed this is the direction our industry is headed. I had high hopes for Virgin America setting a high standard for the way it treats its people (even with their low pay).

Even airlines like NWA (With its "bad" reputation for the way it treats its employees), lets its non-union employees ride first class for free and union employees ride first class for a small fee (Domestic and International). And most airlines will go out of their way to let jumpseaters (online and offline) ride in first class if their is a seat open. I expected Virgin America to treat its people better.

I would understand if they said no uniformed employees. That would be logical. But the policy as it stands is a new low in this industry. If you don't think this is a new low, then name one other U.S. Airline that currently has such a policy.

 

[twabudman]

I heard they dont have any internal travel priviledges set up yet for their own employees....which explains why the gate agents are sooo nasty....why should they let another airline pilot on their airplane when they cant fly themselves....also heard they have not let their dispatchers into CASS for this same reason...

 

[xjs1]

I heard they dont have any internal travel priviledges set up yet for their own employees....which explains why the gate agents are sooo nasty....why should they let another airline pilot on their airplane when they cant fly themselves....also heard they have not let their dispatchers into CASS for this same reason...

I was always told growing up to believe none of what you heard and only about 1/2 of what you saw....

 

[twabudman]

their Dispatcher called me and told me this

 

[slavenaway]

I am just disappointed this is the direction our industry is headed. I had high hopes for Virgin America setting a high standard for the way it treats its people (even with their low pay).

Even airlines like NWA (With its "bad" reputation for the way it treats its employees), lets its non-union employees ride first class for free and union employees ride first class for a small fee (Domestic and International). And most airlines will go out of their way to let jumpseaters (online and offline) ride in first class if their is a seat open. I expected Virgin America to treat its people better.

I would understand if they said no uniformed employees. That would be logical. But the policy as it stands is a new low in this industry. If you don't think this is a new low, then name one other U.S. Airline that currently has such a policy.

Keep your eye on the ball, please. This thread is about jumpseats and not about how good or bad companies treat their staff.

 

[slavenaway]

I heard they dont have any internal travel priviledges set up yet for their own employees....which explains why the gate agents are sooo nasty....why should they let another airline pilot on their airplane when they cant fly themselves....also heard they have not let their dispatchers into CASS for this same reason...

Lies make it around the world twice before the truth makes is across town.
Travel priviledges are in place.

 

[freightdogfred]

So, if 3 guys show up needing a jumpseat, and there's a seat left in first, 1 guy doesn't ride?

Raw deal.

 

[Beetle007]

This thread is about jumpseats and not about how good or bad companies treat their staff.

But it also affect jumpseaters (if you eventually get agreements)

It wouldn't bother me if your company didn't have a desire for reciprocal jumpseat agreements. But when you start asking for reciprocal agreements you should play by the same rules.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

That is a horrible policy. The top execs don't care because they still have first class travel (for life) on their previous airlines.

I guess that tells you what the company really thinks of you (as an employee) when they won't even let you ride in an OPEN "first class" seat.

Right, and I am sure Don Carty will be treated great when he tries to ride in the front on AA.

 

[slavenaway]

Look, I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just the way it is. There were many times when I was commuting in the past where the carrier I tried to ride on only took as many jumpseaters as there were jumpseats -- even with tons of seats in the back. 5 people show up for the the JS, 30 seats in back, 1 JS up front and only 1 jumpseater was taken. All that even when my carrier filled the boat and I was happy to take everyone that asked to ride. I didn't like being left behind even when I took everyone I could but that's the way it was.

Not everyone plays by the same rules. We've ALL been around the block enough times to realize that.

I just want you guys to know what the deal is before you walk up to the counter. That's all. All of us at VA will do our best to get all the JSers on the plane. We'd love you have you along. Please don't think otherwise.

 

[Beetle007]

I just want you guys to know what the deal is before you walk up to the counter. That's all. All of us at VA will do our best to get all the JSers on the plane. We'd love you have you along. Please don't think otherwise.

Virgin America has some positives. I don't want to act like I think they are all negative. And you make a good point about how not all airlines play by the same rules. I think you understand where we are coming from and we understand where you are coming from.

 

[slavenaway]

Perfectly stated.

 

[cruxx@9]

I have been there as well when a carrier only took as many offline JSers as were JS in the cockpit. I remember sitting at the counter trying to get on a Delta 727. There were 20something empty seats, but only one JS on the 727. (The carrier had the aircraft configured that way). There were 2 of us plus another online JSer. The Delta guy and one of us got on.

I hate to say it, but I think it sucks that VA doesn't allow even thier non-uniformed employees in First Class. I would totally understand if the employee wasn't in business attire and there were policies in affect about attire. (I think there should be more placed on attire when on an airplane rev and non rev....but that is another thread I'm sure)

However, that is the rule. Just like the JS in cockpit regulates JSer rule.

Over in Europe NOBODY but revenue pax sit up front. I was on a non rev over there and they delayed the flight to get me on because they moved paying passengers from coach to First Class to accomodate the non rev's. They got us on, so no complaints here, it was just different than I was accustomed to here in the states. I later found out that most foreign carriers have similar rules about first class.

So my question to slavenaway: In that situation will VA move a paying customer to First Class to accomodate a non rev?

 

[vixin]

I guess that tells you what the company really thinks of you (as an employee) when they won't even let you ride in an OPEN "first class" seat.

No that started that when they showed how much they are willing to pay their piots. Plus the merit based, kiss our butts upgrade policy. Gotta love the whole $5 raise per year. What a great way to treat employees. Why would people work their? A slight step above scumbus but not much.

 

[slavenaway]

So my question to slavenaway: In that situation will VA move a paying customer to First Class to accomodate a non rev?

Unfortunately, no. It isn't the perfect scenario, I know. It was our idea to make the ability to do that an option but VA wants those seats to generate revenue. You can't BUY a seat in 1st class these days -- they're all booked up and checking-in full so it really isn't a workable option even if we did have the authority to do it.