NO JS to anti-ALPA types

[Airline Driver]

Why is it just plain wrong?

Ya know. I've been on this board for a long time. I've seen half of you since you were lowly flight instructors chomping at the bit for a shinny jet. 1/2 of you are the same guys that spoke of the inequities of places like Freedom, CC Air, Go Jerks, BMA and how they've helped ruin the industry.

I spent 3 years as a jump seat committee chairman. In the end the single biggest thing that anoyed me was having to toe the "jumpseat can't be used as a weapon line". SOrry but I don't see it as a weapon. I see it as a reward and professional courtesy from one captain to another pilot. Why should that courtesy be offered and rewarded just based on a COMM cert? Why should it be offered to pilots who are not willing and committed to bettering the industry?

The jump seat is not being used as a weapon. The simple courtesy is just not being offered to those who don't work to better our profession. As it will not be offered on my a/c to the 87 original Freedom pilots, Go Jets pilots, or now skywest pilots. Sorry.

Just because someone does not agree with or Like ALPA or any Union for that matter should not dictate whether or not that person gets the jump seat. It is a matter of personal opinion on Unionization.

You might as well then deny the jump seat to everyone who is a member of the independent party VS being either a republican or democrat. I agree hold heartedly that using vulgarity is not the smartest way to Carry yourself or represent your airline. A mer I don't care for ALPA would have got the point clearly across.

I being a commuter, will always leave the jump seat open to someone trying to get home or to work. You never know when that person you are denying the jump seat to, is trying to get home for a family emergency or is on their last chance to make it to work before having to waist a sick day.

This is obviously just my opinion.

 

[evilbeef54]

Why is it just plain wrong?

The jumpseat is not being used as a weapon. The simple courtesy is just not being offered to those who don't work to better our profession. As it will not be offered on my a/c to the 87 original Freedom pilots, Go Jets pilots, or now skywest pilots. Sorry.

i have a hard time seeing how hurting your fellow ALPA members and co workers because of your personal opinion is not just plain wrong. You have to look at the big picture here, you say that you will not offer the JS to skywest because of the way the vote went, okay good for you. But what about the LARGE number of ALPA pilots that use skywest to get to and from work. What do you think is going to happen, you are gonna deny a OO guy because he is not ALPA, he will say okay, leave, but be pissed off, and what do you think is gonna happen to the next 4 or 5 ALPA guys that want a ride home on his plane. They will be told "sorry, but it was made clear that we weren't welcome on ALPA aircraft so looks like you will have to try to find another ride, oh wait we are the only one that goes into where you live, or you will have to take 2 more legs to get home, well sorry that sucks, try later" Jumpseating is a 2 way street and just because YOU wont feel any negative effects from your actions doesn't mean that a large portion of the profession (that you caim to be helping by doing this) wont be harmed. This is the same kind of self centered thinking that you are coming down on others for

 

[PCL_128]

Just because someone does not agree with or Like ALPA or any Union for that matter should not dictate whether or not that person gets the jump seat. It is a matter of personal opinion on Unionization.

Without unions, there wouldn't be any jumpseating, so if you don't like unions, then you don't deserve the privileges that they afford you. Pretty simple.

You never know when that person you are denying the jump seat to, is trying to get home for a family emergency or is on their last chance to make it to work before having to waist a sick day.

If they're a SCAB, a GoJet pilot, a Freedumb A-lister, or a Skywest NO-voter, then I really don't care.

 

[flyboyike]

I would have confined him to the jumpseat for the flight and schooled him.

Good thinking. Might actually do some good.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Good thinking. Might actually do some good.

It might actually to the SKYW pilots some some good if they got out and helped push instead of riding the efforts of ALPA pilots....

Nobody likes an arrogant freeloader....

Regards to those who voted yes..

 

[Caspian27]

The simple courtesy is just not being offered to those who don't work to better our profession. As it will not be offered on my a/c to the 87 original Freedom pilots, Go Jets pilots, or now skywest pilots. Sorry.

If they're a SCAB, a GoJet pilot, a Freedumb A-lister, or a Skywest NO-voter, then I really don't care.

Good grief people. I can't believe you'd even make a comparison of SkyWest to Freedom A-listers or Go-Jetter's to SkyWest pilots. Both of those airlines were originally conceived to circumvent scope restrictions of USAir and AA and thus the ability of the unionized pilot groups at Mesa and TSA to fly bigger planes or upgrade into those seats. SkyWest was not conceived to circumvent a unionized pilot group at an airline owned by the same holding company. It's been around for 35 years...the pilot's that went to Freedom-A and GoJet knew they screwing the Mesa and TSA pilots and did so willingly. There is no similar situation to compare at SkyWest.

Is ALPA, not just being a union member, but specifically ALPA such a religion to some of you that you'd deny someone the right to see their family because they thought ALPA, not unions, was not right for SkyWest right now? Most SkyWest pilots that I know are not anti-union, very many came from other unionized part 121 carriers (myself included). They just felt that ALPA was not a good fit for SkyWest at the present time. Again, most are not anti-union. Don't fault some for doing what they thought best for the pilot's right now.

So I ask...if ALPA is what you have to be to have a jumpseat on your planes, will you deny:
-JetBlue (non-union)
-US Airways- East (openly trying to oust ALPA)
-United (many very, very vocal against ALPA)
-AirTran (non-ALPA)
-American (non-ALPA)
-Southwest (non-ALPA)
-Republic Airways Holdings (non-ALPA)
-Great Lakes (non-ALPA)
-etc.

To follow your argument logically: SkyWest voted no to ALPA...therefore they are scabs and should be denied the jumpseat; then any other non-ALPA carrier is in the same situation and should get the same treatment. Every pilot from the list above should be denied by your logic. Additionally, a scab is traditionally someone who refuses to join a union at an already unionized workplace or someone who crossed a picket line. No SkyWest pilot has done these things.

I just ask all of us to tone down the passions a bit and think about these things logically, and with an empathy towards those on the other side. And remember: a bunch of us voted yes, myself included. A vast majority of SkyWest pilots care deeply about the profession and making it better for them, their company and the industry.

C27

 

[PCL_128]

C27, it's not about being non-ALPA, it's about actively making a decision to be completely non-union. The Skywest pilots have voted against ALPA twice, and against an in-house union once. If they don't want to join the rest of the unionized pilots in this industry to better our profession, then the NO-voters don't deserve the benefit of a union-negotiated privilege like jumpseating.

 

[Caspian27]

C27, it's not about being non-ALPA, it's about actively making a decision to be completely non-union. The Skywest pilots have voted against ALPA twice, and against an in-house union once. If they don't want to join the rest of the unionized pilots in this industry to better our profession, then the NO-voters don't deserve the benefit of a union-negotiated privilege like jumpseating.

Thanks for the reply.

PCL, I respect your opinion and your right as PIC of an aircraft to do what you deem best for your airplane any given day. Including what you do with your jumpseat.

However I must respectfully disagree with your stance in this case. Over half of the SkyWest pilot group was hired in the last few years and most of these pilot's weren't around for the previous union drives ( I myself was at another carrier). How are you going to differentiate a NO-voter? You don't know how each individual voted, so you'll choose to punish every SkyWest pilot that wants to go home and see their family, including those that said yes?

I really do think that most SkyWest pilots respect the profession and want to improve it for everyone. Many of the SkyWest pilots felt that ALPA specifically wasn't right for us now. So should they vote in something that they think will hurt the company now, or wait for an opportunity for a chance to do something better? I really think that many, if not most of our pilot's want a union...but don't want it to be ALPA. It's interesting that many UAL pilots and USAir east pilots were openly telling many of us to not vote in ALPA. Unfortunately in this vote we only had the choice of voting ALPA or nothing. It was a tough position. For some of us, it was like voting for President. You try to choose the lesser of two evils. Each pilot did what they thought best.

Again I ask, how will you differentiate those that said yes or no? And why would you punish the yes pilots by banning the entire group? Additionally, do you really believe that SkyWest pilots as a whole are on par with Freedom-A or GoJet? (I'm talking again about those that voted yes as well) Because I just don't see how they can even be in the same ballpark for the reasons I cited in my previous post.

On a side note, just for curiosity, do you allow jetBlue jumpseaters on your plane?

Respectfully,
C27

 

[A350]

PCL:

Your logic defies intelligence.

The union may have been the purveyor of the jumpseat and all that we hold holy about it....but your insistence that union=jumpseat and non-union=no jumpseat is whacked.

Many airlines have extremely liberal jumpseat agreements and are not union. Why? At non-union carriers, there is no need for give and take negotiations which put things like the jumpseat on the table to be used as a chip in the bargaining process. Ask the DAL guys about the jumpseat and collective bargaining.

The Skywest pilots believe, like the USAirways East guys, that ALPA representation is not in their best interests. IMO, it is up to ALPA to prove their worth. If they can't, it isn't the Skywest pilots fault.

A350

 

[CFIT]

C27, it's not about being non-ALPA, it's about actively making a decision to be completely non-union. The Skywest pilots have voted against ALPA twice, and against an in-house union once. If they don't want to join the rest of the unionized pilots in this industry to better our profession, then the NO-voters don't deserve the benefit of a union-negotiated privilege like jumpseating.

Don't forget, we also voted down Teamsters too.