No comment

[SWA Bubba]

You do understand that some of us dont see the balance of power as being equal between unions and management in this country, especially with the RLA and us pilots, right? Europe shows more balance of power in my traveled world view.

Sure I understand that you and Ohgoon don't see the balance of power as equal in this country, compared to Europe. I get it, really. But you don't seem to understand that not everyone in this country agrees with you two, and not agreeing with you doesn't make them extremists, or even wrong. Also, the RLA applied to airline employment is a government thing. I agree that it's different than how other unions are treated, but the government keeps it that way because they see the airlines as essential as rail was back in the day. If you don't like that, take it up with President Obama, although I don't see even his administration changing it.

By the way, I find it ironic that you're clamoring with Ohgoon for more unionization (or at least to make them as powerful as Europe's unions). Seeing as how you personally blamed unions for bad service on this exact thread earlier:

I blame the over unionization of FAs, "Customer Service" Agents, and other personell who are employed by the airlines to deal with the public, and instead of putting on the best possible face for our employers, so many of them disregard the most basic needs of a person, such as their basic human dignity

You've actually named one issue with a union having too much power (granted, that's subjective): if it does have so much power that members are protected to the point where they can't get fired or even disciplined unless they're convicted of a felony, then there's no accountability, and therefore incentive to actually do your job--in customer service positions, that means actually being nice to the customers.

Or did you mean that only pilots should have unions, because we don't have as much interaction with the customers requiring our "best possible face"?

Bubba

 

[HA25]

Or did you mean that only pilots should have unions, because we don't have as much interaction with the customers requiring our "best possible face"?

Bubba

That's exactly what meant. ...

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's exactly what meant. ...

Man! Ohgoon's gonna' be disappointed in you!

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Ohgoon,
So you don't get confused, or irate, my comments embedded in your quote are red simply for contrast.

Ok Bubster,

sad to see there is no reaching you. In the hermetically sealed bubble of your world you are completely right.

What is the most laughable of all is that you really see yourself and this country of ours as different and apart from Europe rather than the logical extension and continuation of it. We are a part of Europe, philosophically, religiously and economically. We are not that different.

Ask yourself why the "Greatest Generation" risked life, limb and treasure on D-Day and beyond if they didn't see Europe as their ancestral home?

Actually, they saw England specifically as their ancestral home, and then fought for continued freedom in Europe against OTHER European people(primarily against the strongest power in the EU now). It was a war against totalinarianism, extremism. And then when that was done, we fought an even longer war (the Cold War) against Left extemism.

Put another way, the progression and evolution of Western Democracy goes something like this. Socrates, Aristotle, Roman Congress, Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence, Continental Congress, US Constitution, French Revolution and the emergence of a Democratic Europe after two World Wars.

This has nothing to do with your desired progression to socialism.

Where in this, do you see a complete break? You lack perspective if you believe our little tax revolt against King George in the 1770s was the one event that separates us from the "Ovine" crowds of Europe.

More below.

In the meantime, enjoy your jingoistic fantasies of moral and cultural superiority while they last.

I never said our morals or culture was superior. I said it's different, and that I liked it better, and I think it works better. That's why I live here instead of going there. On the other hand, you live here but bitch that it's better over there.

World events will force an awakening on even the most myopic of us in the US soon enough!

Sounds even more ominous than the Mayan apocalypse!

Goodonya.

"Our little tax revolt"?

Perhaps you might want to revisit your history and civics classes. That little tax revolt you referred to was a little bit more than that. It was one people divorcing themselves from another because they didn't like the way the goverment functioned. And then forming a new country. And then fighting a multi-year war, at great cost, to ensure its survival. And then creating a new constitution specifically refuting the old way, and specifically limiting the power of the federal government: all powers not SPECIFICALLY granted in the Constitution to the federal government are reserved to the states, and to the people.

Minimizing such a historically significant event because it doesn't fit your point of view, and dismissing the Constitution because it is actually counter to your desire for one central world government, is NOT an actual argument.

Do many Americans view Europe as its ancestral home? Sure we do, myself included. However, that does NOT make us "part of Europe" or a "logical extension and continuation of it." If we were, we'd still be part of the UK, call ourselves 'subjects' and swear allegiance to the Queen. As I said before, and then you pretended it didn't happen, we actually refuted all that so that we could be a different type of country.

And now I'm just a jingoist because I like the principles our country founded itself on, and want to see them preserved? And of course, you're the enlightened one because you want to take the the path of least resistance, and surrender our autonomy and independence to "Mother Europe" and the EU, so that we can be taken care of by the central government. I can see why you think yourself a centrist.

Bubba

 

[OHGOON]

Ohgoon,
So you don't get confused, or irate, my comments embedded in your quote are red simply for contrast.




"Our little tax revolt"?

Perhaps you might want to revisit your history and civics classes. That little tax revolt you referred to was a little bit more than that. It was one people divorcing themselves from another because they didn't like the way the goverment functioned. And then forming a new country. And then fighting a multi-year war, at great cost, to ensure its survival. And then creating a new constitution specifically refuting the old way, and specifically limiting the power of the federal government: all powers not SPECIFICALLY granted in the Constitution to the federal government are reserved to the states, and to the people.

Minimizing such a historically significant event because it doesn't fit your point of view, and dismissing the Constitution because it is actually counter to your desire for one central world government, is NOT an actual argument.

Do many Americans view Europe as its ancestral home? Sure we do, myself included. However, that does NOT make us "part of Europe" or a "logical extension and continuation of it." If we were, we'd still be part of the UK, call ourselves 'subjects' and swear allegiance to the Queen. As I said before, and then you pretended it didn't happen, we actually refuted all that so that we could be a different type of country.

And now I'm just a jingoist because I like the principles our country founded itself on, and want to see them preserved? And of course, you're the enlightened one because you want to take the the path of least resistance, and surrender our autonomy and independence to "Mother Europe" and the EU, so that we can be taken care of by the central government. I can see why you think yourself a centrist.

Bubba

Where do I start? So much misinformation in so few little words.

BTW in your earlier post. Not my Quote! Maybe made by someone else who argues my point of view, but this was not made by me.

a)Oh so my grandfather who is of Polish, German ancestry fought in WWII because he only saw England as his ancestral home? He's still around, wanna guess what his response to this will be? You are so confused.

b)Socialism is a part of that progression I listed, it's not the big bad pooh bah you are so scared of. Soviet Style Communism is not socialism! It was totalitarianism that misappropriated some of Karl Marx's socialistic ideas. Ever actually read any of his writings? Did you know that Karl Marx was all about freedom? Freedom from being enslaved by the industrial revolution. Freedom to be able to just go to your local church on Sundays to worship without the fear of getting fired from your job.

c)You never said the US culture was superior moral or otherwise... You didn't have to. It's so implied in the social political discourse in our country today that it is just accepted as a truth. So no you didn't say it, but you are really going to stand here and tell me that you don't feel that way? Please...

d)No, I don't think it's going to be like the Mayan thing at all. This time it will have profound effects on your's and mine lifestyles for generations to come. No amount of sticking your pretty little conservative heads into the sand will prevent it.

e) And now to the whopper of them all. "We are so different" "We are better than they are".... This attitude you display here is precisely why the rest of the world laughs at us more and more each day. I have news for you. WE ARE AN EXTENSION OF EUROPE. I never said we are still a colony, but we are another step in the progression and evolution of how an educated (hope lives eternal) population attempts to govern itself.

You don't even know your own history about how the Constitution came about, and you sit here telling me about it. Let me help you. The first body of government our white European Founding Fathers dreamed up was called the Continental Congress. It was all about States rights and had no central Federal component to it. It failed badly mostly because whatever it tried to do, it did not have its own funds to do it with. (No powers of taxation)

So after watching this mess and realizing how vulnerable they were to England re invading their colony to restore order, the Founding Fathers reconvened again and wrote the Constitution as we know it today. It, for the first time established a centralized form of governance. It established the idea that Federal law superceeds state law. It established a leader (President) who could command an army etc. It also allowed for direct taxation of the population so it could have an independent treasury that could enforce it's new laws and decrees. So the Constitution was created not to limit Federal Power but rather it created Federal Power in the first place. It's just amazing how many of you right wingers keep quoting the Constitution without ever actually understanding what that Document actually does and does not do. Let me say it again. The Constitution was not created to limit Federal Power, it created it.

As far as my desires for a one world government or whatever you are trying to imply here. It's just so much nonsense... Please where in my posts have I pleaded for that?

The really ironic thing is that this paranoid conspiratorial worldview may actually have some merit insofar as that most things in our present time are being controlled by major corporations who are worldwide, have no popularly elected officers and are basically under the control of only a few very economically powerful people who really answer to no one but themselves. This is what you weenies love to call the "free market" So in some bizarre way, your blindness is actually contributing to your worst nightmare!