No comment

[PBRstreetgang]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...low-vets-angered-by-delta-airlines-treatment/

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yeah, no comment huh?

So then why did you repeat another posting of this article?

You stay classy PBR......

 

[General Lee]

No comment? Really? If someone dropped the ball, I have a feeling they will find out what happened. Here is what was stated in the article about the ramifications:



Michael R. Thomas of Delta’s corporate communications office in Atlanta offered this emailed statement regarding Knighton’s letter:

“The story in no way reflects either Delta’s standard operating procedure or the very high regard we hold for our nation’s service members. We are sorry for the difficulties that transpired and are investigating this event to determine the appropriate next steps.”

Asked to list possible next steps–reprimands, fines, suspension, termination–or estimate how long the probe might last, Thomas sent a second email: “As previously stated, we are actively looking into the incident and have no additional details to share at this time.”



On many flights I have flown, I have heard the FAs give PAs looking for military people to give upgrades to if there are open seats. As far as trading seats, I don't know if that is allowed, or what the procedure is from Coach to First. Do you do that at the gate? Do you do that enroute? Come on PBR, tell me how you would do that?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

Boarding someone in an aisle chair is supposed to happen during the pre-boarding process. Something obviously prevented this. But if it's "humiliating" for this Marine, why wouldn't it be humiliating for any other disabled person?

What did the 104 degree fever have to do with anything?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Boarding someone in an aisle chair is supposed to happen during the pre-boarding process. Something obviously prevented this. But if it's "humiliating" for this Marine, why wouldn't it be humiliating for any other disabled person?

It would be just as humiliating I'm sure. However, in this day where airlines (and other businesses) are making a point of crowing about "taking special care" of veterans (especially wounded ones) who gave to their country, it's in direct contradiction to that. That's why it was brought up.

What did the 104 degree fever have to do with anything?

Probably nothing to the actions in the incident, other than weaking and stressing the veteran to the point of tears.

Anyway, having said that, one action by one crew doesn't define any company or any airline. Or even necessarily that particular crew, since we don't know all the details. The facts is, most companies and people DO try to take better care of veterans. I've heard numerous airlines, including Delta, offer to board servicemen and women first, offer upgrades, etc. We as a society are doing a much better job of this than we did in previous generations. While there may be something to this particular incident that needs to be addressed, Delta as a whole has nothing to be ashamed about.

Bubba

P.S. Please nobody tell Gen'l Lee that I stuck up for Delta, okay?

 

[IBNAV8R]

Anyway, having said that, one action by one crew doesn't define any company or any airline.

Sadly, it does. One incident like this offsets ten-million acts of kindness.

I'm guessing this is not the first incident for this crewmember - just the first one to make the news.

 

[General Lee]

Well said Bubba. I would think most airlines try to show respect to our Military personnel, and I always thank them for their service. Hopefully situations like the one above don't happen too often.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[328dude]

Just saw about 40 rampers standing around a Delta jet in Atlanta an hour ago paying respects to a fallen warrior being offloaded on the ramp.

It was nice to see that today. Good show.

 

[Spud]

Just saw about 40 rampers standing around a Delta jet in Atlanta an hour ago paying respects to a fallen warrior being offloaded on the ramp.

It was nice to see that today. Good show.

Today especially... that whole business in CT really got to me.

WTG DL Ramp.

 

[HA25]

this is disgraceful.... but I can't just lay blame on Delta here, this is endemic in our industry... the level of service is at such a low that I expect better service at a DMV than when I travel in the back of a passenger plane on the vast majority of carriers.

I blame the over unionization of FAs, "Customer Service" Agents, and other personell who are employed by the airlines to deal with the public, and instead of putting on the best possible face for our employers, so many of them disregard the most basic needs of a person, such as their basic human dignity.

 

[filejw]

this is disgraceful.... but I can't just lay blame on Delta here, this is endemic in our industry... the level of service is at such a low that I expect better service at a DMV than when I travel in the back of a passenger plane on the vast majority of carriers.

I blame the over unionization of FAs, "Customer Service" Agents, and other personell who are employed by the airlines to deal with the public, and instead of putting on the best possible face for our employers, so many of them disregard the most basic needs of a person, such as their basic human dignity.

Fact check only union workers at DAL are pilots and dispatchers..

 

[johnsonrod]

That story is truly shocking if true. Time for a lower FA age limit. Sorry, many of those old bag, jaded, cat-farming, obese Delta stews have to go...

 

[Golden Falcon]

The state of cabin crew attitude and service levels at US major carriers is appalling full stop, best thing they could all do is turn it into a post- grad type travel life experience during the transition from college to career type job..attract younger men and women who have no intention of staying after the enjoyment factor wears off...kinda like overseas airlines where I fly...we still have seniors, but very few, and there is for sure no financial incentive to stick around, and even our seniors seem to enjoy the job,

 

[Quack]

Well you get what you pay for...lack of common sense and decency. This is not just a Delta problem, but industry wide. You could take this article and insert any given airline in the subtitle and we'd point fingers and say how despicable XYZ airline is, but the reality is that our industry is despicable sometimes. This happens at every airline...

 

[HA25]

Fact check only union workers at DAL are pilots and dispatchers..

you're right, I'd forgotten about that, which makes it all the worse.... but having said this, the way DAL treats their FA's is de facto like they're a member of a union, this way they prevent them from voting one in..... it's 2 and a half, a dozen of the other...

 

[HA25]

The state of cabin crew attitude and service levels at US major carriers is appalling full stop, best thing they could all do is turn it into a post- grad type travel life experience during the transition from college to career type job..attract younger men and women who have no intention of staying after the enjoyment factor wears off...kinda like overseas airlines where I fly...we still have seniors, but very few, and there is for sure no financial incentive to stick around, and even our seniors seem to enjoy the job,

been saying this for two decades now, and I've even had other pilots look at me like I've got 3 eyes and landed form Mars.. Pray they don't allow cabotage, or Emirates, Korean Air, and Singapore will wipe Delta, United, USAir, et al off the face of the earth

 

[SWA Bubba]

this is disgraceful.... but I can't just lay blame on Delta here, this is endemic in our industry... the level of service is at such a low that I expect better service at a DMV than when I travel in the back of a passenger plane on the vast majority of carriers.

I blame the over unionization of FAs, "Customer Service" Agents, and other personell who are employed by the airlines to deal with the public, and instead of putting on the best possible face for our employers, so many of them disregard the most basic needs of a person, such as their basic human dignity.

Delta's level of unionization notwithstanding, I find your remark above especially ironic when viewed with your pro-socialism remarks on the other thread. When we're as socialist as Europe's most left-leaning countries, everyone will be in a union, everyone will get paid no matter what, and no one will give a crap--service or otherwise.

Bubba

 

[filejw]

you're right, I'd forgotten about that, which makes it all the worse.... but having said this, the way DAL treats their FA's is de facto like they're a member of a union, this way they prevent them from voting one in..... it's 2 and a half, a dozen of the other...

Funny this ....from what I have been told this incident has zero to do with FA's but the contract workers who load wheelchair bound pax onto the aircraft. No matter you guys are on a roll, keep the FA bashing going you guys are good at it...

 

[HA25]

Delta's level of unionization notwithstanding, I find your remark above especially ironic when viewed with your pro-socialism remarks on the other thread. When we're as socialist as Europe's most left-leaning countries, everyone will be in a union, everyone will get paid no matter what, and no one will give a crap--service or otherwise.

Bubba

Europeans (I hate to say it) are simply better at unions than we are...the unions there (called trade unions) are more like guild.. they do a better job of policing their own than their management.. Here it's the opposite, a union seems to be the last one to protect the quality of who their company hires.. it's all about numbers and dues here, money, greed and power.. European trade unions actually vet their memebrship and the work ethic, professionalism and attitude towards the job and the customer are an order of magnitude better than it is here.

Cultural? maybe..

So do I believe that EVERYone should be in a union here in the USA? No... just those of us with professional licenses, education and a skill/standing that makes it so we need protection from the all mighty profit motive.

 

[HA25]

Funny this ....from what I have been told this incident has zero to do with FA's but the contract workers who load wheelchair bound pax onto the aircraft. No matter you guys are on a roll, keep the FA bashing going you guys are good at it...

who's call is it if they can a paying customer can swap seats in 1st with the guy? Contract worker?

who assigned the guy the last row in coach and boarded him last? A contract worker? So they farm out Red Coats now to 3rd party companies?

 

[B727FA]

Just saw about 40 rampers standing around a Delta jet in Atlanta an hour ago paying respects to a fallen warrior being offloaded on the ramp.

It was nice to see that today. Good show.

That won't make the news.

 

[B727FA]

you're right, I'd forgotten about that, which makes it all the worse.... but having said this, the way DAL treats their FA's is de facto like they're a member of a union, this way they prevent them from voting one in..... it's 2 and a half, a dozen of the other...

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[HA25]

That doesn't even make sense.

yeah it does, just ask around, I don't feel like going into a long winded discussion about it right now.

 

[General Lee]

That doesn't even make sense.

Most of the DL FA's don't want a union, because not having one is almost as good as having one, without the dues. Sure, you can get yourself into trouble if you do something wrong, but there are enough "union drives" to keep the company on "be nice mode." When the merger with NWA came along, those FAs had a different attitude. It had always been a fight between management and those FAs, so they were used to infighting, and used to having a union. This last vote was close, resulting in no current union, and now DL has to prove that they can co-exist without one, or the next union drive could be successful.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HA25]

Thanks general. And they say you contribute nothing around here. Sheesh.

 

[General Lee]

been saying this for two decades now, and I've even had other pilots look at me like I've got 3 eyes and landed form Mars.. Pray they don't allow cabotage, or Emirates, Korean Air, and Singapore will wipe Delta, United, USAir, et al off the face of the earth

Our airports in the US don't have the room for that. Most of the concourses are already full, and for a good reason. It is a struggle to try to get an extra gate at most busy airports.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Thanks general. And they say you contribute nothing around here. Sheesh.

Yeah, I try...... sometimes I do get under the skin of some people on here, and that might be because I am right.... But, overall, I enjoy the industry and even the banter on FI...


Have you done your IOE on the big bus yet? Any cool trips on IOE? Is it a lot different than the Evergreen 747 and Gemini MD11 you previously flew? Do you like it better? Take care.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Daddy]

Delta is definitely less military friendly than most. They do not treat their military reservists very well at all either according to those i know who work there and serve in the reserves. I am sure there are worse out there but Delta is definitely in the lower tier for respecting veterans. Sadly, most people do not really care since it doesn't affect their phone, internet, or cable TV. They will buy the ticket from the cheapest airline or the best rewards program regardless...it is what it is.

 

[HA25]

Yeah, I try...... sometimes I do get under the skin of some people on here, and that might be because I am right.... But, overall, I enjoy the industry and even the banter on FI...


Have you done your IOE on the big bus yet? Any cool trips on IOE? Is it a lot different than the Evergreen 747 and Gemini MD11 you previously flew? Do you like it better? Take care.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I'm all OE'd on the 717 now and got 60 hrs of inter island so far. Got more landings in the last month than the prior two years.

I'm awarded the 330 and start class sometime early next year. Hoping to bid west coast turns mainly and see home more often.

 

[OHGOON]

Europeans (I hate to say it) are simply better at unions than we are...the unions there (called trade unions) are more like guild.. they do a better job of policing their own than their management.. Here it's the opposite, a union seems to be the last one to protect the quality of who their company hires.. it's all about numbers and dues here, money, greed and power.. European trade unions actually vet their memebrship and the work ethic, professionalism and attitude towards the job and the customer are an order of magnitude better than it is here.

Cultural? maybe..

So do I believe that EVERYone should be in a union here in the USA? No... just those of us with professional licenses, education and a skill/standing that makes it so we need protection from the all mighty profit motive.

I don't think they do unions better in Europe. The main difference is that Europe's population is thankfully still very pro union which makes it politically dangerous to be seen as too aggressively anti union, therefore most companies have stopped their eternal war with them. Instead in many countries they integrate Union reps right into the management structure up to and including their Board of Directors. It leads to greater understanding of each others problems which makes for more honest compromises that benefit both sides. The end result is that both sides naturally must learn to coexist rather than continually attempt to wipe each other off the face of the earth.

By contrast, the US population has allowed itself to be swindled into believing that Unions are bad for the economy, etc resulting in a very hostile anti Union environment. This in turn allows most management to take incredibly aggressive anti worker positions without paying any political price. Add it all up and you have a recipe for very confrontational Labor relations.

Put another way, why should a worker feel loyalty or go above and beyond when he/she is constantly given the message that they don't matter and are totally replaceable whenever management feels like it? Blaming Unions for this state of affairs is like blaming the deer when some drunk hunter falls out of his blind and breaks his neck.