NJVote 73%Yes 5%No 21% NoVote

[Diesel]

Familyguy

Who really cares about YOU?

Last time i checked you didn't make the plane go. We do. Elitist Yup but we've trained, and worked hard to get to the position we are at.

You don't have a leg or a say in this fight. So you're just making yourself feel important.

Sad truth is nobody cares.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Well, let's see. What was on the to do list...

Separate from Local 284.
Form new Local 1108.
Learn how to run Local 1108.
Start several volunteer programs and run said programs.
Start to actually enforce existing CBA.
Represent pilots brought in for bogus reasons.
etc, etc, etc.

Yeah. I can see where it might have been a bit of a busy 9 months of gestation for this baby. I bet the address list is one of the items to be corrected but like many other problems a faulty contact list was just another one inherited by the Fab 5 and Local 284. It takes a while to fill in potholes.

New group. Same problems. WAAAAY better solutions that take time to fully implement.

I see the union spinmeisters are out in force to try and explain why 400 of their own didnt participate in the recent strike vote.

you guys are trying hard but there is still something that doesnt ring true in the latest 'explanation'....

if its the old contact list from local 284 that's to blame for the 'no votes' then why was everyone able to vote in the election for a new MEC?

Everyone was able to cast a vote in the election of a new MEC, yet something happened to the list in the intervening 9 months?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Familyguy

Who really cares about YOU?

Last time i checked you didn't make the plane go. We do. Elitist Yup but we've trained, and worked hard to get to the position we are at.

You don't have a leg or a say in this fight. So you're just making yourself feel important.

Sad truth is nobody cares.

Diesel - if you didnt care you wouldnt respond.

Truth is that you get frustrated when I expose the flaws in the arguments on this board.

As I said over a month ago, you should be grateful....I'm giving you free critiques of your negotiation positions....

 

[Hogprint]

FG said:

I see management taking the high road and always telling everyone in the company that the vast majority of pilots are excellent and continue to deliver high quality service. I do not see the company publicly airing the actions of the malcontents, even though it would no doubt incense the owners to know the details of some of the games being played at their expense.

I see management taking the low road every week.

* Tried to have two brothers fired for allegedly sleeping (plenty more to this story you wont hear from the High Roaders)

* crews needlessly being called into CMH for, horror of horrors, delaying a flight at 0400 because they didn't have food, water or brief sheets. Could have been cleared up with a phone call, but instead $1200 in airline tickets later, two work days wasted, plus whatever it cost to get another crew to the plane.

* after crew confirmed with the Death Star that one airport did not have fuel and diverted to another so mission could be completed, Death Star bozos tried to turn around and hang crew out to dry on the issue. Luckily cooler heads prevailed (ACP was old military buddy), and crew did not do the CMH 1 approach

I could go on and I'm sure every pilot here has some good war stories about the High Roaders beating this pilot group like a rented mule.

Can someone give me specific examples of "games being played at owners expense"? Just one good specific example would do.

 

[El Chupacabra]

why don't the non union pukes that don't like working with union flight crews quit and work somewhere else? Union pilots built this company before you got here...

 

[hydrarkt]

Everyone wants more money. I do, you do, its pretty much universal.

Difference between you and us is that most of us could do any of those management jobs. Many of us have. Hardly any of the casino personnel can do our job. You're easily and cheaply replaced. We are not.

 

[Some Dude]

Family Guy....... please the guy doesn't even have the balls to say what department he works in. He wants us to listen to him. He's like background noise. Nobody really listens or cares. He should come out of the closet.

 

[Heavy Set]

Diesel - if you didnt care you wouldnt respond.

Truth is that you get frustrated when I expose the flaws in the arguments on this board.

As I said over a month ago, you should be grateful....I'm giving you free critiques of your negotiation positions....

Dude, NJA pilots are paid far less than their counterparts in the corporate world (same aircraft types) and yet they fly A LOT more on average. Can you refute that?

Schedule or no-schedule, NJA pilots are basically the primary interfaces with your customers. Surprising (or not) that you would treat your "front line" employees with such acrimony when their service is SO CRITICAL to your customer-service ethic... It doesn't make a lot of sense and it is extremely short-sighted. Do you find this level of acrimony between SWA management and pilots? Nope.

It's clear that NJA management has squandered a lot of its cash on inefficiency and cross-subsidization of other divisions (Netjets Europe, NJME, etc.). It's time to INVEST in your pilot group in order to bolster morale and actually improve customer service.

Otherwise, you'll find Flight Safety doing really well financially as many, many NJA newhires are trained in the coming months to cover for attrition (if the strike doesn't happen - although we all know that it will). Well, at least Warren will be happy with Flight Safety's results...

 

[FamilyGuy]

Dude, NJA pilots are paid far less than their counterparts in the corporate world (same aircraft types) and yet they fly A LOT more on average. Can you refute that?

Heavy - no, I cant refute that. But we all know, and its been beat to death on this board, that there are clear, fundamental differences between the corporate jobs and fractional. Staffing ratios for one, schedules for another....

The same logic that says you shouldnt compare us to the airlines says that you shouldnt compare us to the corporate world. The real question is how will this contract compare against the other fractionals?

Schedule or no-schedule, NJA pilots are basically the primary interfaces with your customers. Surprising (or not) that you would treat your "front line" employees with such acrimony when their service is SO CRITICAL to your customer-service ethic... It doesn't make a lot of sense and it is extremely short-sighted. Do you find this level of acrimony between SWA management and pilots? Nope.

Heavy - you're correct - the pilots are the primary interface with the owners and their service & attitude is critical to the success of the product. I know many of our pilots and personally have a lot of respect for the job they do. 95% of our pilots are top-notch professionals and I support them in asking for an industry leading wage. (Fractional industry) Read my previous posts and you'll see that I've stated this numerous times.

What I do not agree with is the tactics that are being employed to try and achieve some of these goals. I find them heavy handed and malicious. While the fight for fair pay is respectable, it does not give the union, or pilots on this board, license to undermine the product the owners receive, slander Mr. Santulli or his duly appointed executives, and generally trash what is a very good company.

It's clear that NJA management has squandered a lot of its cash on inefficiency and cross-subsidization of other divisions (Netjets Europe, NJME, etc.). It's time to INVEST in your pilot group in order to bolster morale and actually improve customer service.

I will be the first to tell you that there is inefficiency and waste in the system. But guess what - there is waste and inefficiency in every company. I've worked at a fair number of companies over the years and I've seen waste everywhere. Dont think that any company out there is perfect.

To be fair, a good part of the waste that I see here is due in large part to the rapid growth of the company. Things that weren't worth focusing on 3 years ago are now so large that they need to be looked at and fixed. That's a good problem to have.

As for investing in NJE, I think a good company is always looking to expand into new markets. Do you want to be part of a company that isn't expanding? That's how you achieve financial stability and we all continue to get raises.

and again, I do agree that the company needs to invest in the pilots and pay them a fair wage. no argument there. But I dont think it should be to "bolster morale and actually improve customer service". It should given because its the right thing to do and the pilots deserve it. I do my job to the best of my abilities every day, regardless of whether I think I should be paid more. Pilots and all other employees should do the same if they are truly professionals.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I support them in asking for an industry leading wage. (Fractional industry)

​

Are fuel prices lower because the fuel goes into a fractional airplane?

​

Forget the Fractional Industry. We are the fractional Industry. If the fractional Industry can only survive by underpaying pilots compared with the rest of Business Aviation... let it die.


even H2 will support that statement.