NJVote 73%Yes 5%No 21% NoVote

[Just Peachy]

ckt bkr blown

You can speculate all you want but the fact is that they didn’t vote. And the normal rule in statistical analysis is you would count them no.


The above is absolutely crap... the normal statistical analysis would project the unaccounted votes on the same ratio as the main counting ... 93% for, and 7% against......... what a piece of work U R.

Good thing your not a pilot, your logic would get the crew killed..

 

[CRAWDADDY]

You can speculate all you want but the fact is that they didn’t vote. And the normal rule in statistical analysis is you would count them no.

Go ahead and just TRY to count me as a NO VOTE. Thanks to 284, I never got a ballot.
Put down the KoolAide, fool

 

[DO-82 driver]

NJAOwner,

We all realize the owner is the line pilots' friend. You have been lied to as much as we have. It was stated not to long ago that if it wasn't for the Marquis program NJ might be in a situation where we would have to possibly lay pepople off.

That make me think how loyal is the Company to their Owners? That question was skirted when asked.

Right now, our demand has exceeded our abilty to supply....and this is the slow period. The Holidays are just around the corner.

 

[gunfyter]

Gunfyter - you are along the lines of what I have been saying here for 3 years. The owners have the ultimate power in this games. You need to appeal to the owners to get what you want. P!ss them off (including a strike) and the tide changes.

<...zip...>

This is common sense.

Well we just have to make sense out of this.

When I fly someone out to Montana from TEB to spend some time at their 90,000 acre ranch... I have to think the money is there. At $500 an acre that would be $45 Million for a place to go fishing. What's the property tax on a 90,000 acre ranch?

Now we are told the company does not collect enough monies to pay us NBAA standard pay.

Common sense says anyone who can afford to fly a X to Montana from NY to go fishing on their 90,000 acre ranch can afford NBAA pilot salaries. Especially when they are only paying a portion because they share ownership in the jet.

Right now my 7th year Citation X PIC pay is less than what the people who ride the Bus to work in Columbus Ohio (Because they can't afford an automobile) are able to pay a 5th year bus driver working for the Columbus Ohio Transportation Authority ... COTA. www.COTA.com

HS Dip. or GED. Have a Steady work history. No history of moving violations.Responsible for operating a Motor Coach in a safe, on-time manner

Common Sense.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I thought this new group was stellar....if that's true, then why cant they handle something as mundane as updating a mailing list when they had 9 months to do it?

Well, let's see. What was on the to do list...

Separate from Local 284.
Form new Local 1108.
Learn how to run Local 1108.
Start several volunteer programs and run said programs.
Start to actually enforce existing CBA.
Represent pilots brought in for bogus reasons.
etc, etc, etc.

Yeah. I can see where it might have been a bit of a busy 9 months of gestation for this baby. I bet the address list is one of the items to be corrected but like many other problems a faulty contact list was just another one inherited by the Fab 5 and Local 284. It takes a while to fill in potholes.

Sounds to me like its new group, same problems....

New group. Same problems. WAAAAY better solutions that take time to fully implement.

If management offered up that explanation for a similar problem you'd be all over them screaming incompetence.....

When management opens their mouths it is a lie. Oh but according to Worth W. B., "It isn't lying if there was no intent". THere would be no screaming. We would simply say, "See... liars".

 

[FLYLOW22]

NJAowner - your observations are right on. Unfortunately the nature of negotiations in aviation seem to always come down to this game of chicken.

Not true. Short sighted management teams bent on short term gains and long term losses "play chicken" or rather back employee groups into a corner with threats and surface bargaining rather than engaging in thought provoking, meaningful, progressive bargaining. (But who cares. They won't be here to worry about it once the golden parachute is deployed).

NetJets management is so short sighted when it comes to employee relations. It is sad. Enron with wings.

In the end though, I think unionized employees have more to lose in the game. Their livelihood is tied to a seniority number. If the company fails or they leave then they have to start all over again at the bottom of the ladder.

That's just it. This isn't a game to us. This is whether or not some of us can get off of food stamps. This is where we live, what we drive, where our kids go to school, quality of life we have. That's pretty importsant stuff dude. No games here.

Many of us could care less about a seniority number lost that isn't worth anything today anyway. NJA needs to make those seniority numbers worth something this time with CASH so that they can use that lame threat next time. Cart before the horse boys.

This isn't that great of a job right now. Help us make it one so you can use that threat next time. You were all skipping ahead too many chapters in Ichan's playbook.

In the today's economy managers and non-union employees move around regularly and are not penalized like union employees when they move.

Oh. Where do you have your resumes out too right now?

So while you see a lot of bravado on this board, take it with a grain of salt. None of the pilots, even the most ardent union supporters, relishes the thought of starting out at the bottom of the seniority list again.

It isn't the loss of artificially over-valued NJA seniority that your be a drag. It's all the damned groundschool training involved with another intitial when starting at a new company. The chairs are uncomfortable.

"Welcome to Brand X..."

 

[CMHTroll]

Reality Check!

Not true. Short sighted management teams bent on short term gains and long term losses "play chicken" or rather back employee groups into a corner with threats and surface bargaining rather than engaging in thought provoking, meaningful, progressive bargaining. (But who cares. They won't be here to worry about it once the golden parachute is deployed).

Management isn't the side that got us put in Abeyance.

NetJets management is so short sighted when it comes to employee relations. It is sad. Enron with wings.

It is obvious that your lack of understanding of employee relations, profit and loss make your statement a joke.

That's just it. This isn't a game to us. This is whether or not some of us can get off of food stamps. This is where we live, what we drive, where our kids go to school, quality of life we have. That's pretty importsant stuff dude. No games here.

No games on the non-union side. Games on the Union side, go slow and pi$$ off the customers.

Many of us could care less about a seniority number lost that isn't worth anything today anyway. NJA needs to make those seniority numbers worth something this time with CASH so that they can use that lame threat next time. Cart before the horse boys.

The door is always open for you to leave. You have no chance for advancement except seniority because you are in a Union. That is your loss.

This isn't that great of a job right now. Help us make it one so you can use that threat next time. You were all skipping ahead too many chapters in Ichan's playbook.

The Job is what you make it and it is obvious you don't want it to be a good one. Your actions speack volumes. Why don't you have your Mec bargain in good faith and get out of abeyance?

 

[Diesel]

You keep coming back to this barganing in "bad faith" but you don't look at your own group. You think we should just bend over and take it like you? I don't think so. I have bent over and over and over for this company day in and day out to help out the owners. I see problems coming down the road and i jump in the way to stop them so the owners don't get screwed. Guess what happens. I get told just fly the plane, or don't say xyz to the owner. Screw that I'm totally upfront with the owners I fly. If it's my screwup it's my screwup. I don't cover for the company period. These are smart FRIGGIN people we fly. They know BS when they see it.

CMHtroll comes on here and just keeps spouting the same thing. Does he really know what our job entails probably not. Does he know that we have pilots on leave due to blown out backs from lifting bags? Probably doesn't even know we load bags.

I don't need to explain what I do on my job. That's why i'm the captain and responsible for EVERYTHING involved in my flight. Myself and my partner make an informed decision and if I have that "bad feeling" I take the heat and don't go. I've lost too many friends in this job.

SO the next time you want to run your mouth and say we are "slowing down" or dragging stuff out on the line I say Go F yourself. Rushing is what killed a close friend of mine. I get paid to make sure the plane gets from A to B and sometimes throw in a Z safely.

CMHtroll you don't fly the line, you have no idea what we do. Go F yourself by saying i'm slowing down or my fellow pilots are trying to F the owners. You come on here and spout crap with nothing to back it up.

Oh and if anybody wants his Extension number PM me.

 

[hydrarkt]

CMHTroll is a troll

I have it on good authority that CMHTroll is a company paid propoganda "spinner." Part of his job is to post misinformation to try to stir the pot.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Not true. Short sighted management teams bent on short term gains and long term losses "play chicken" or rather back employee groups into a corner with threats and surface bargaining rather than engaging in thought provoking, meaningful, progressive bargaining. (But who cares. They won't be here to worry about it once the golden parachute is deployed).

NetJets management is so short sighted when it comes to employee relations. It is sad. Enron with wings.

Surface bargaining? From what I understand, the new MEC and the Company have agreed on all articles except pay and scope. That's a lot of articles to agree on in just 9 months...especially since everyone had to start over once the pilots elected new leadership.

Threats? I dont see management on these boards saying STMFD. I dont see management on these boards mocking the union leadership with deliberate mangling of their names. I see management taking the high road and always telling everyone in the company that the vast majority of pilots are excellent and continue to deliver high quality service. I do not see the company publicly airing the actions of the malcontents, even though it would no doubt incense the owners to know the details of some of the games being played at their expense.

Short sighted on employee relations? None of the other 4 companies under the NJ umbrella seem to have these employee relation problems....seems its limited to the union groups. I wonder why? Maybe you should consider dealing with Santulli without a union to muck things up and see how things go.

That's just it. This isn't a game to us. This is whether or not some of us can get off of food stamps. This is where we live, what we drive, where our kids go to school, quality of life we have. That's pretty importsant stuff dude. No games here.

Its already been posted by one of your fellow pilots (boasting is a more accurate description) that 98% of the pilots are getting PIC pay now due to the coordinated actions to deliberately circumvent the spirit of the contract. In addition, union officials were quoted in the Columbus Dispatch saying that the pilots average between $50,000 and $72,000. This doesnt sound like a food stamp issue.

Everyone wants more money. I do, you do, its pretty much universal. The important point to remember is that the company has a proposal on the table that makes the pilots the highest paid in the fractional industry. Again...doesnt sound like a food stamp issue.

Oh. Where do you have your resumes out too right now?

Nowhere. In fact, I havent even looked at my resume since I was hired here. Executive Jet/NetJets has been very good to me and I have no reason to look anywhere else.