NJVote 73%Yes 5%No 21% NoVote

[Hogprint]

FamGuy said:

What I do not agree with is the tactics that are being employed to try and achieve some of these goals. I find them heavy handed and malicious.

OK...once again. Examples please. Specific if you don't mind. I've asked you at least twice and another once or twice. Still nothing. Until we have some specifics, then we have to assume it's nothing but SPIN.

As for investing in NJE, I think a good company is always looking to expand into new markets. Do you want to be part of a company that isn't expanding? That's how you achieve financial stability and we all continue to get raises.

I want to be part of a stable company that treats all of its employees with respect.

Just what raises are you speaking of? I haven't had one that covers the cost of living yet. I hope you are enjoying yours.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Difference between you and us is that most of us could do any of those management jobs. Many of us have. Hardly any of the casino personnel can do our job. You're easily and cheaply replaced. We are not.

hyrdarkt - I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If the pilots are omniscient and all powerful then why dont they step up and take some of the open manager positions?

I find it amusing that everyone wants to sit back and take potshots at the managers, second guessing every move, yet when asked if they want to take a shot at leading everyone scrambles to find cover...

Again, if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

As for easily replaced, I know I can be replaced. I know the pilots can as well. No one is irreplacable. I actually put a lot of stock in something that one of the airline pilots observed here in an earlier thread - no pilot should leave the cockpit in the current economic environment.

 

[Semore Butts]

Family Guy

I respect you and your views.

You know that I want this company to do great.

I really don't agree with you here.

I do think the "its just business, nothing personal" attitude sucks.

Why does management have to suck whatever it can from a much deserving pilot group? Or any group for that matter (Enron type deal). This delay crap is company and company alone.

You can hardly blame anybody for wanting to lash out at management. The society that we have regarding profit, profit, profit. Whatever happened to caring for ones fellow man? It just makes me wanna puke.

NJA Owner, you say the way is through the owners? Apparently you think much more highly of yourselves then Santoulli does. Get a grip man, he doesn't give 2 shi#ts about you. At least it doesn't seem that way from what I've seen? You don't have anymore influence then we do. If you do lets see it. You don't have your lively hood to lose like we do.

Troll, truly you are the lowest of the low, here only to try to discourage a great group of people that are only trying to achieve a livable life in a very difficult time. Do you go to sleep at night saying hahahaha, I discouraged a lot of people from trying to have a better way of life for there families today.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself sir, or maam, or whatever you are..

Wouldn't that look great on your Tombstone?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Family Guy....... please the guy doesn't even have the balls to say what department he works in. He wants us to listen to him. He's like background noise. Nobody really listens or cares. He should come out of the closet.

Dude - for someone that doesnt listen or care you sure have dedicated a lot of your posts to me. I think half of your posts have been in response to me. Must be getting to you.....

 

[FamilyGuy]

OK...once again. Examples please. Specific if you don't mind. I've asked you at least twice and another once or twice. Still nothing. Until we have some specifics, then we have to assume it's nothing but SPIN.

Hogprint - as for negotiation tactics, I do not approve of the slow downs, DNIF's, etc that inconvenience the owners. The owners should not be caught in the middle. They are everyone's bread and butter and deserve to be above the fray. I understand that some pilots view this as a way at getting back at the company but this is extremely short-sighted.

As for conduct on this board - I find the continual bashing of the company, Mr. Santulli, the managers, and most alarmingly the owners, as reprehensible. I'm also disgusted at some people who seemingly will stop at nothing to discredit the company by airing any and all company dirty laundry here. Everyone should recognize this is negotiations and let the representatives of both groups negotiate behind closed doors....not here in public.

As for examples of pilot misconduct, I do not feel it appropriate to engage in that type of discussion on this public board and I will not post examples of pilot misconduct (or company misconduct).

I want to be part of a stable company that treats all of its employees with respect.

Just what raises are you speaking of? I haven't had one that covers the cost of living yet. I hope you are enjoying yours.

Hog - agreed. I want to be part of a good stable company that treats all employees well. So far, this is the best I've found.

As for raises, I would be surprised if you've made the same salary every year you've been here. I know, the pilots dont want to talk about the seniority raises you get for each year of service, but the union groups are the only ones I know that get an automatic raise every year and then get the opportunity every 3-5 years to reset the pay scale through negotiations. Come over to the non union side where everything is performance based and there is no reseting of the base scale unless you take on additional responsibility by getting promotions.

 

[Heavy Set]

Hogprint - as for negotiation tactics, I do not approve of the slow downs, DNIF's, etc that inconvenience the owners. The owners should not be caught in the middle. They are everyone's bread and butter and deserve to be above the fray. I understand that some pilots view this as a way at getting back at the company but this is extremely short-sighted.

As for conduct on this board - I find the continual bashing of the company, Mr. Santulli, the managers, and most alarmingly the owners, as reprehensible. I'm also disgusted at some people who seemingly will stop at nothing to discredit the company by airing any and all company dirty laundry here. Everyone should recognize this is negotiations and let the representatives of both groups negotiate behind closed doors....not here in public.

As for examples of pilot misconduct, I do not feel it appropriate to engage in that type of discussion on this public board and I will not post examples of pilot misconduct (or company misconduct).

Hog - agreed. I want to be part of a good stable company that treats all employees well. So far, this is the best I've found.

As for raises, I would be surprised if you've made the same salary every year you've been here. I know, the pilots dont want to talk about the seniority raises you get for each year of service, but the union groups are the only ones I know that get an automatic raise every year and then get the opportunity every 3-5 years to reset the pay scale through negotiations. Come over to the non union side where everything is performance based and there is no reseting of the base scale unless you take on additional responsibility by getting promotions.

You sound either very naive or like a master manipulator. Give me a break, how long have these negotiations been going on and on and on? The managment's stonewalling is ridiculous and its inability to understand the importance of maintaining "front line" employee morale is what is reprehensible... This is a service business afterall and employee morale and willingness to go that extra mile is critically important (evidently management doesn't understand that basic concept). What would Herb Kelleher think about management's tactics? Doubt he would be impressed.

Family Guy, thanks for humoring us on these boards. Your holier-than-thou and condescending attitude is indicative of what can be found at HQ. There is no integrated team working toward a beneficial, symbiotic relationship. At the end of the day, the strike will happen and the pilots will ultimately be paid far better than the current compensation levels and QOL will improve. There are no positive alternatives...

 

[Hogprint]

I do not approve of the slow downs, DNIF's, etc that inconvenience the owners

I think we've been around in circles on this, but it deserves another go.

There have not been any SLOW DOWNS. This is an illegal job action. If there had been a slow down, this company would have taken the first C X screaming to the NMB. As far as I know, this hasn't happened.

DNIF. If you are sick, don't fly. What more legally can you say?

As for raises, I would be surprised if you've made the same salary every year you've been here.

You are correct. I have not made the same salary every year. I think I actually received $100 raise after my first or second year. I'm just playing with the hand I've been dealt. Those raises have not even covered the cost of living I might add.

Did you get to negotiate a raise for yourself every year you've worked here? I hope so. This is the hand you've been dealt.

Maybe the casino should organize????? I think I still have Loc. 284's number. Then you can enter into the land of milk and honey!

 

[FamilyGuy]

You are correct. I have not made the same salary every year. I think I actually received $100 raise after my first or second year. I'm just playing with the hand I've been dealt. Those raises have not even covered the cost of living I might add.

Did you get to negotiate a raise for yourself every year you've worked here? I hope so. This is the hand you've been dealt.

Maybe the casino should organize????? I think I still have Loc. 284's number. Then you can enter into the land of milk and honey!

Glad to see you've still got your sense of humor hogprint.

I appreciate the offer, but I've been there, done that. Thanks. I've had my fill of unions and prefer the relative peace on the non-union side.

I wont blow smoke and tell you that everythings perfect on this side, cause its not....but for me its much better.

Negotiate raises? not lately. we used to be able to make a good argument when the company was doing well, but havent seen much of that recently. Now everything is performance based, which doesnt bother me too much since I've always been willing to stack my work up against anyone else.

No offense, but for me, I'd rather be judged on my own merits than take the lowest common denominator raise.

Good luck with the negotiations.

 

[El Chupacabra]

We have had ZERO raises for 7 years.

Not only that the pay negotiated 7 yrs ago was for the Citation S-II. Not the X or the Falcon.

 

[hydrarkt]

Ha

I find it amusing that everyone wants to sit back and take potshots at the managers, second guessing every move, yet when asked if they want to take a shot at leading everyone scrambles to find cover...

Again, if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.
.

Once again you have no idea what you're talking about. 3 years ago I personally gave the then Chief Pilot a method for fixing the endless time it took to get the paperwork for a simple maintenance procedure done. He told me that it was a great idea. Think they fixed it??? NO!!
Another pilot here told the company how to greatly reduce the costs of catering while still getting the same quality. He did a large study and got the data to all the right managers, who promptly blew him off.
There are numerous other example of pilots here trying to "fix" what management can't. Management can't get out of its own way.
Do you realize that the US took over 2 countries and formed 2 democracies faster than it's taking NetJets to field a Blackberry???
If management here had listened even a little bit to the suggestions given to them over the years this place would be a much better company. It's egos and "know it all" attitudes that are hurting this company.
You can try to spin all you want. You know the real deal and so do we. I'm not really sure who you're trying to "turn" but it's not working

 

[FamilyGuy]

Once again you have no idea what you're talking about. 3 years ago I personally gave the then Chief Pilot a method for fixing the endless time it took to get the paperwork for a simple maintenance procedure done. He told me that it was a great idea. Think they fixed it??? NO!!
Another pilot here told the company how to greatly reduce the costs of catering while still getting the same quality. He did a large study and got the data to all the right managers, who promptly blew him off.
There are numerous other example of pilots here trying to "fix" what management can't. Management can't get out of its own way.
Do you realize that the US took over 2 countries and formed 2 democracies faster than it's taking NetJets to field a Blackberry???
If management here had listened even a little bit to the suggestions given to them over the years this place would be a much better company. It's egos and "know it all" attitudes that are hurting this company.
You can try to spin all you want. You know the real deal and so do we. I'm not really sure who you're trying to "turn" but it's not working

hydra - this supports my point. If you have all the solutions then become the managers and fix the problem. Dont sit back and just b!tch about it.

As for the 2 countries and 2 democracies - I'll withhold judgment. Neither the democracies or the blackberries seem to be going that well right now (I'd like to be able to concede the point though, since I voted for Bush)

 

[x402]

If you have all the solutions then become the managers and fix the problem. Dont sit back and just b!tch about it.

3 years ago I personally gave the then Chief Pilot a method for fixing the endless time it took to get the paperwork for a simple maintenance procedure done. He told me that it was a great idea

Another pilot here told the company how to greatly reduce the costs of catering while still getting the same quality. He did a large study and got the data to all the right managers, who promptly blew him off.


I don't see our guys sitting back bitching, there are 2 examples. There are hundreds more and we get turned away every day. We are pilots and enjoy our jobs. Managment, good management that is, uses the assets they have to improve the product and bottom line. The upper managment at NJA, Inc. does not consider the pilot group to be an asset, they see us as a liability. Turf wars inside middle and upper mgt are destroying NJA. We have offer a partnership, they tell us 'We don't get the BIG picture.' We have pilots who have just left mgt that validate this view. So you see we have tried from outside and from inside, we'll continue to attempt to effect positive change through the contract negotiation process.

 

[Fracster]

Its just the mentality of NutJets. Look at CMHTroll. There are morons like him/her running rampant.


The sad truth is there are some tremendously talented people in CMH. Many of these employees have spoken up, made great suggestions just to be turned down by some management person whos mental acumen is well below par.
If the idea did not register in the mind of management it never existed. The egos are so large they are unable to accept constructive criticism from an hourly employee. Atleast they are consistent....consistently incompetent that is.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I am no longer going to pull the rabbit out of my hat. I will do as I am told, let the Casino call the shots, I will not fly tired, sick, or hungry, if I see a train wreck ready to happen...I will step aside and let it happen. I will fly my plane with the highest degree of safty and professionalism. I will not fly broken planes and I will not operate in the "gray". I will treat the Owners the way they deserve to be treated.


I don't need to do anything to disrupt this operation...The folks in CMH are fully capable of doing that on their own.

Once again....this pilot group has not engaged in ANY ILLEGAL work action. If we did, don't you think this Management would have cried "foul" a long time ago. They haven't bvecasue they CAN'T. We aren't messing things us.....We're just not covering for the one who really are.

 

[Diesel]

FamilyWhore

I'm not on the negotiating committee. Guys a lot smarter than me are taking care of that.

It's sad that people will think that your opinions are the views of those in the casino. There are some really great people up there and your views put them in a bad light.

Of course you're lucky it's the internet. You can post all day long in anonymity.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I have already told you what needs to be done. Raise management fees and pay the pilots.

Do I need to move to CMH and take a managers job to get that done?

Oh... and don't sell airplanes that you can't get on the property fast enough. And don't sell off core fleets.

Oh... and stop using Citation X's to back up G-IV/V flights. Don't you know NJI and NJA are separate companys? We have our own owners we need to fly.

 

[Some Dude]

Family Guy I just don't like you. Why would anyone want to get into management here? Heck the leaders change every two years so why work for a boss that won't be here later? Why be a manager and have your department turned upside down with a new president every two years?

I would never work in management here. I wouldn't want to work with idiots and persons that lie to each other and the pilots. The flight department positions are filled with alcoholics, persons who have sexual misconduct charges against them, persons who falsified FAA documents, etc. That doesn't sound like a group I would want to work with. We have a degenerate management team. There are a few good apples it's just too bad their talents are made to rot on the tree instead of being picked to serve.

 

[hydrarkt]

hydra - this supports my point. If you have all the solutions then become the managers and fix the problem. Dont sit back and just b!tch about it.

Why on Earth would we want to become managers with NutJets?? To try to fix problems? That wouldn't help. You know damn well that the bureaucracy there is terrible. Nothing significant ever gets done because of all the territorial infighting that is prevalent there. We have come up with many ideas to try to help. It is the manager's job to implement those ideas if it will help.

 

[Schrode]

I have already told you what needs to be done. Raise management fees and pay the pilots.

Sad part is . . . management DOES raise the management fee on the aircraft. I believe it is 3% minimum each year. In 2000, management contacted the owners advising them the current contract with the pilots was soon to be amended and the management fee would need to have an addional increase to fund the increased pilot wages, they raised the management fee an addional % (don't know what it was) that year and on new contracts. They got their money . . . and spent it on a HPN facility and NetJets Europe. You know, cause the pilots need to work more, if they want more pay.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Oh... and stop using Citation X's to back up G-IV/V flights. Don't you know NJI and NJA are separate companys? We have our own owners we need to fly.

WHAT? The GIV/V's have been bailing the X's out since they got here. Almost half the trips on the IV are CX rescue's and a bunch on the V, NOT the other way around. The owners get their airplane or better!