NJI Response/No Response

[flyjetspeed]

WoooHooo 100% 7/7, more to come, stay posted!! From what I read in the LOA there is nothing to prevent NJI mgt. from keeping NJA pilots in the right seat until they have been there long enough to upgrade along with everyone else. It's just gonna cost a bunch more money. If the 1108 objects to this policy I suppose they could make some trouble however there is no LEGAL recourse that I can see.

 

[WGFP48]

There isn't an insurance company in the country that will allow a new NJA or for that matter anyone else to have the keys as PIC without meeting experience requirements and that will take a year or two to meet...so, no NJA pilot will come over as PIC right from the Git Go...just ain't gonna happen here or anywhere else...LOA or not! Sorry to burst your bubble...

 

[FLYLOW22]

Insurance policy? What are you talking about? BKH self insures NJ when it all comes down to it. There is no insurance policy except one arm of BKH saying, "Ok self. I am now insuring you."

On another note, the G ain't the end all beat all Dali Lamma of aeroplanes. It doesn't require an inordinant amount of effort or ability to pilot. It won't require any "time" in the right seat... nor will the LOU be allowed to be interpereted that way.

Think that if it makes you feel better though.

 

[WGFP48]

FL22
You can say what you say, but it will still be nearly a year before any NJA capt is PIC at NJI...maybe even longer...but since everything is about $$ , any capt who comes to NJI will be hurting his pay chances...he will make more to stay in the Falcon 2000 or whichever jet gets him the level 4 pay...so I really don't think that a senior NJA pilot will really make the move..unless he/she wants the additional type rating.

 

[gunfyter]

A YR 8 Captain (moving from the X) would get a 20K raise... . Hire dates in 1998 and 1999.

I don't care what seat I am in as long as I get the cash.

Also I am against baiting each other. Best to be working together.

 

[zman300]

I can't believe anyone honestly thought they were coming over STRAIGHT into a PIC position. 4 Stripes, yes...captain pay, sure...G-IV type, no problem...but PIC right off the bat? Uhhhhhh....

I can answer affirmatively to what someone else wondered in an earlier reply. I AM happy at NJI regardless of what the guys at NJA are getting. I've always said I hoped they got everything they deserved. I must say that I'm even HAPPIER as we begin to hear more details about what'll happen at NJI in the next three years, however. It's all good, and we should all be happy (though of course, some on both sides never will be). As more NJI details emerge, though, I suspect there'll be some bitter pills at NJA; some people just won't be happy unless they think others are miserable. Oh well.

 

[Diesel]

I have to admit i'm curious as to what you guys are hearing about what is going to happen at NJI in 3 years.

Because we have it in writing what is going to happen during the 3 years and the end of it.

I'm not bitter just enjoying the show from the sidelines.

 

[zman300]

I have to admit i'm curious as to what you guys are hearing about what is going to happen at NJI in 3 years.

Because we have it in writing what is going to happen during the 3 years and the end of it.

I'm not bitter just enjoying the show from the sidelines.

Stay tuned. One thing is certain: communication within NJI has been a bit(!) lacking, but not without reason. That's why you see wide-ranging replies from NJI folks here. Nevertheless, we'll all get on the same sheet of music soon enough.

 

[Diesel]

ibt1108 is writing the music...

 

[squonk]

Lounging in HPN today and heard that Bombardier sent over a Global to take RTS for a demo spin? Can this be confirmed? Looks like G v/s G?

To throw my .02 worth in, I would not expect an NJA bubba to go over and jump in the left seat at NJI. I would also not expect upgrade to take two to three years. I can see a happy medium between the two though. ANy thoughts.

 

[RTRHD]

Too many jokes. Must act professional. No really, who do you think has better lawyers? Do the owners want to go to Australia with a Citation captain? FYI, The International Procedures course at FSI sucks; it does not teach you anything. Don’t you think the owners are asking this……………..

 

[Spyguy]

?????

I have to admit i'm curious as to what you guys are hearing about what is going to happen at NJI in 3 years.

Because we have it in writing what is going to happen during the 3 years and the end of it.

I'm not bitter just enjoying the show from the sidelines.

Diesel, I am again curious, as I was when the TA first came out, concerning the part addressing NJI/NJA. The only thing you have in writing are two things. 1: NJA guys will be coming over and flying with NJI guys. 2: There will be a HEARING concerning NJA/NJI becoming one company (and you can not even bring up the LOA or the fact that NJA pilots are flying for NJI). That is it. Anything else on both sides is speculation. It appears from the rumor mill that both sides are thinking very differently. The LOA, the same one that every NJA union rep on here loves to fall back on, has a ton of wiggle room in there for managagement to move on concerning NJA/NJI. My 2 cents from reading the "rosetta stone" for the NJA union.

 

[Diesel]

rtrhd- Yeah because going international is really hard. Maybe if i'm really nice you'll teach me how to make position reports and learn how a slot works..... See you at 50w.

Common man get overyourself. It's a gulfstream not the shuttle.

By the way the lawyers worked out great for you guys. You got sold out to keep the NJA pilots happy. I know the truth sucks but it's still the truth.

 

[Diesel]

I can't really tell you whats going on a public message board but it's in the works. It's just not done yet. Should be soon though.

 

[Spyguy]

It will be interesting to see everything play out. Hope it works out for everyone on both sides and a better or two better companies come from it.

 

[Diesel]

yup i'm interested too. It is fun too watch though.

 

[Correcting]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something that says an NJA guy going over to NJI as a PIC will need something around 100 hours before being released as a PIC. Why 100 hours you ask? Because that's the number that NJA uses when a person moves to PIC in a different aircraft.

Oh, but I forgot the G-WIZ is just so hard to fly. The Citation X is trickier than the G-WIZ. And yet, we have pilots at NJA that routinely move from "simple" planes like Ultras and Excels to the big, scary, Citation X and get released with 100 hours in the Ten.

Oh, but that big bad G-WIZ can go over the ocean. Wait a minute, so can our Tens and Falcons and BBJ's. Guess NJA guys have just been winging it on all those international flights and hoping nothing goes wrong.

 

[Diesel]

I got released in the X in 50 hours. So by that logic i should get released in the straight wing, non slatted, non moving elevator, g-wiz in about 10 hours.

 

[RTRHD]

I got released in the X in 50 hours. So by that logic i should get released in the straight wing, non slatted, non moving elevator, g-wiz in about 10 hours.

Straight Wing...........UMMMMMM A REAL AERONAUTICAL EXPERT WE HAVE HERE. And the Elevator moves also, that is how it goes higher and lower. Or did you mean the STAB, it moves also. Maybe GV Flier will jump in here.

 

[Diesel]

dude it's called sarcasm. Hopefully your doctor will have the same sense of humor when he tells you have AIDS.

 

[gunfyter]

Diesel, when you give rides to G-IV owners ... do they know you are a Citation pilot?

 

[zman300]

I can't really tell you whats going on a public message board but it's in the works. It's just not done yet. Should be soon though.

Well crap! Wish I'd known you already know what's going to happen to NJI...no need to post from our side, then. I, for one, no longer will. Hope the rest of your curious/inquisitive buds here caught your post above so they can quit asking dumb, premature questions about NJI. Fill 'em in soon as you can please!

 

[Archie Bunker]

I can't believe anyone honestly thought they were coming over STRAIGHT into a PIC position. 4 Stripes, yes...captain pay, sure...G-IV type, no problem...but PIC right off the bat? Uhhhhhh....

Just a dumb Part 121 guy here trying to learn more about NJA and NJI....but why not PIC right off the bat if that person's seniority will allow it? At my airline we have guys checked out as Capt in a new aircraft that they have never flown before all the time. They just complete the required training...sims, and a type rating ride in the sim, followed by Approx 25 to 30 hours IOE in the jet, and then they are the Capt. I mean...if a guy has been a Falcon Capt at NJA for 5 years, what's the big deal about becoming a Capt on the G-IV or G-V right away?

 

[RTRHD]

Hey Diesel, I was just screwing with you man. No harm intended, congrats on the money. Really the hardest thing is keeping the wingtip out of things.
You and your family have a good Christmas.

RTRHD

 

[zman300]

Just a dumb Part 121 guy here trying to learn more about NJA and NJI....but why not PIC right off the bat if that person's seniority will allow it? At my airline we have guys checked out as Capt in a new aircraft that they have never flown before all the time. They just complete the required training...sims, and a type rating ride in the sim, followed by Approx 25 to 30 hours IOE in the jet, and then they are the Capt. I mean...if a guy has been a Falcon Capt at NJA for 5 years, what's the big deal about becoming a Capt on the G-IV or G-V right away?

Yes, well, "25-30 hrs. IOE in the jet." Your airline has decided that's adequate, and at least they have a guideline. But we're talking here about NONE. Type check in the sim, and wham, you da man?! I don't know, but I've never received any kind of training where I walked out of a virtual box and was given the keys to an airplane. We all know the sim is a far cry from the real thing, and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't say I was proficient or highly knowledgeable in any airplane after the initial type check. But I'm just a simple man

 

[XTW]

But we're talking here about NONE. Type check in the sim, and wham, you da man?! I don't know, but I've never received any kind of training where I walked out of a virtual box and was given the keys to an airplane.

So let me see if I have this right. At NJI, there is never any IOE on the actual aircraft after initial training? No line time given by any company check airman to insure company SOP's are being done properly? Sounds strange to me, but who am I to know.


X

 

[Diesel]

I've allways been surprised that at my wife's company once you're the captain and you switch planes you don't spend any time in the right seat after ioe to get more time in the airplane. I think a lot of it has to do that you have a lot of support in the 121 world and see most of all the same airports.

At NJA when we I moved from the Ultra to the X i still had to get 50 hours in the plane before i could be released in the aircraft. I'm sure it's the same way between the GIV and GV.

We do a lot of whacky stuff that sometimes really isn't the normal stuff like ILS to ILS like the 121 world. A approach into ase is a fine example.

If NJI wants to keep captains in the right seat till they get 100 hours or so that's fine. There are some things that these planes do that only time and experience in the plane will show you.

 

[Archie Bunker]

So let me see if I have this right. At NJI, there is never any IOE on the actual aircraft after initial training? No line time given by any company check airman to insure company SOP's are being done properly? Sounds strange to me, but who am I to know.X

My thoughts exactly.

I fly for Delta, and I can only speak for them, but everyone that finishes their type rating ride (Capt), or proficiency check (F/O) in the sim flys with a Line Check Airman for his first rotation (20-25 hrs), then receives a line check. The new Capt also gets to have the Feds ride along for a leg or two for his FAA line check. Once that is completed, the new Capt signs for the aircraft, and is in command.

I was just curious as to why NJI would require some senior NJA Capt (typically a person senior enough to hold the left seat of the G-IV or G-V) to be an F/O for a year or two. Seems stupid to me, but I have no experience in the NJA/NJI world.

Have you guys hashed out the seniority integration rules yet once NJI is taken into the fold in 3 years, or is this a touchy subject?

 

[Diesel]

i can't speak for the NJI guys but I assume that if you are a capt in the 4 and you move to capt in the 5 there is some timeframe... 50 hours probably before you get released.

In the X i think the min time before you are released after IOE being a captain is 100 hours. You can have them release you at 50 if you feel fine about it.

I really think the reason it's there is because we are our own company when out on the road. The company gives you the credit card and says you've got our support for anything you need but you have to make the decision. It's stupid stuff too like trying to show the fueler that the Single point is in the front of the plane not in the back with the lav. Trying to figure out how to make a problem reset itself or what your minimums are for going into a 4500 foot field with blowing wind.

I know it sounds weird but trust me you need extra time in a new plane just to figure out how that fleet does everything. Also the time flying with another captain can be invaluable showing you the ropes on the plane before you take command of it yourself.

 

[G4dude]

First of all, the GIV is no harder to fly than anything else, although the FMS can be quite a handful. The brakes are rather difficult to operate smoothly. Y'all will enjoy it thoroughly, and we will welcome you to NJI. We have a good time, and our corporate culture is absolutely first rate! Congratulations on the new contract!
The only thing my fellow dudes and dudettes are saying about NJA is how glad we are the conflict is over, so we can all go back to doing what we enjoy, namely getting paid to eat at good restaurants.:beer: