NJI heading to the Teamsters

[AA717driver]

Ok, where on the NJI list do the 1 for 3 NJA captains go? Do NJI people not bid for schedules or vacation? A minor point but I'm trying to salvage some moral outrage... TC

 

[old*art]

WOW! The seat grab worked. How will the lists be merged? DOH or staple?
I appologize for doubting.

Well, the NJI guys have three years to build time...TC

From most NJA pilots I have talked to it was never about a seat grab - it was about making a certain individual keep his word. As I have said before it makes me tired just to look at a G Whiz - I was just weary of being played off against NJI - and I do not mean the pilots - a good lot used as shills from the ones I have met.

 

[zman300]

Ok, where on the NJI list do the 1 for 3 NJA captains go? Do NJI people not bid for schedules or vacation? A minor point but I'm trying to salvage some moral outrage... TC

No, NJI people don't bid for anything.

Frankly, I don't see where even if NJI were unionized, we'd be getting screwed. I mean, if we're all gonna be one big happy family, I hardly think the "A" guys wouldn't want the best for a Gulfstream operation they'll eventually be a part of. I'll be a G Captain long before those three years; now you're telling me I'll someday get to fly the BBJ? Or I'll make more money flying a smaller jet than I would as a G Captain? Cool! Screw me over, please!

 

[semperfido]

makes me tired just to look at a G Whiz -.

i know just what you mean. if i could only earn what i do flying a C90 five days a week.

 

[BBJPILOT]

Or, the reality of it!

Translation:

We failed to obtain the scope clause language which would have forced Management to merge the two operations and thus would have given the IBT authority to integrate or staple NJI pilots to the NJA seniority list. I rarely post, but time for the facts, and yes, I know them. The choice is simple, stay in negotiations over this issue and continue to draw blood from NJA. NJA (Santulli) decided he didn't have the stomach for it. Offered a 50% pay increase for half the pilots here and many other benefits, yet we still said "not good enough"! Then when it looked like a bad holiday season, NJI was offered up. Not all at once, but in a three year transition to NJA. The term "merger" used by this poster may have been correct, and would require the very same negotiations on integration as will Single Carrier determination, no difference, except one. The pilots at NJA here now will be able to continue bidding the current Captain positions, and FOs at NJA will be able to bid for our open Captain bids for the next three years. And those more senior FOs that wat to, can bid NJI positions.

NJI will remain a separate company and will continue to operate as it does now. With a clock on the wall counting down, yes, with "modifications."As positions open with NJI, a number of NJA pilots (who and how many yet to be disclosed) One out of two FO positions, one out of three Captain, thats right, direct movement to NJI Captain positions will be allowed to transfer to NJI and work as “non-union” employees. Wrong again, all NJA pilots will remain as UNION pilots, continue to accrue seniority, continue to have contract protections and grievance protections from, what do you call it "Goals versus REQUIRED" and will maintain a seniority based on their NJA hire date over NJI hire date seniority. What that means is that all Captains that take NJI Captain positions will very likely have more seniority than any NJI pilot (about 250 pilots at NJA with more seniority than the senior most NJI Captain!)These pilots will be treated as any other new hire. Other than being the SENIOR pilot in the Cockpit.

I can’t believe the ink isn’t even dry, and your already threatening another lawsuit in 3 years. Pathetic to say the lest. Actually, the Company has given it's blessing in this regard, and have "thrown in the towel" by allowing Union pilots flying the aircraft. The 3 year "threat" ia actually a Union/Company agreed to date of filing, not a "threat." A Single Carrier Petition with just one, much less dozens of UNION pilots working in the Non-Union, much smaller operation basically calls for a Summary Judgement in favor of the petitioner by the NMB. And yes, the Company is fully aware of this, just looking for a slower integration to the final days.

And just what bus did I get tossed under? I haven’t had one negative thing happen to me that I can see, and you didn’t get the Gulfstreams handed to you as you wanted, and I’m not getting forced into the IBT. Not for three more years, you are correct!

And now you know!

 

[Grizz]

Gee - I wonder what BBJ pilot this could be? :laugh:

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Is this an example?

Hopefully the NJI guys will treat the NJA guys with professional respect as the work force is blended.

I believe an NJA pilot has already set the precident for how they feel relations should stand between NJA and NJI pilots.

In his own words on 9/23/2005:

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel
Keep dreaming. It will be done. Just do all of us a favor. When you are over here and are someone's FO, just do your job and get the papers, ice, coffee, catering and clearance and let us know when it's done.

Repeat after me.....STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE

 

[wolfpackpilot]

BBJ guy


Actually you are incorrect on being forced into the union. For arguments sake, let’s say in three years NJI operations are dissolved into NJA. Unless I am completely laid off from my employer and given a written notice of such; I cannot be forced to join or pay any dues or fees associated with Union membership in the event my company is sold, traded (whatever) to a unionized work force. Federal Law protects employees (the term is grandfathered) who did not vote for union representation at the time the union was ushered in or when a non union work forced is merged with a union workforce.

Now if my employment is terminated, and I get a letter saying I can apply to ‘x’ company, then I must abide by the rules of any labor contract that is in place. I still don’t have to join the union, but most states require the employee to pay an administration fee which basically covers the union dues anyway.

A person could hypothetically be forced to work under the rules of a union contract, but they cannot be forced to join a union.

Either way, I will believe it when I see it. Three years is a long time, and my bet is NJI gets sold before your clock strikes midnight.

 

[Mach92]

BBJ guy


Actually you are incorrect on being forced into the union. For arguments sake, let’s say in three years NJI operations are dissolved into NJA. Unless I am completely laid off from my employer and given a written notice of such; I cannot be forced to join or pay any dues or fees associated with Union membership in the event my company is sold, traded (whatever) to a unionized work force. Federal Law protects employees (the term is grandfathered) who did not vote for union representation at the time the union was ushered in or when a non union work forced is merged with a union workforce.

Now if my employment is terminated, and I get a letter saying I can apply to ‘x’ company, then I must abide by the rules of any labor contract that is in place. I still don’t have to join the union, but most states require the employee to pay an administration fee which basically covers the union dues anyway.

A person could hypothetically be forced to work under the rules of a union contract, but they cannot be forced to join a union.

Either way, I will believe it when I see it. Three years is a long time, and my bet is NJI gets sold before your clock strikes midnight.

All you can ever do is be negative. It will happen and if its sold then what? Why do have SUCH a hard time with us ALL being one list? What is your beef?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Just a guess here, but I'd say his beef is with comments from people like Steel when they say "staple, staple, staple."

 

[hydrarkt]

It's a done deal.... NJI is on life support and the grim reaper is hanging around. The good news for NJI is that there is life after death!!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Just a guess here, but I'd say his beef is with comments from people like Steel when they say "staple, staple, staple."

Or this

Posted by Starman:

Either way, he'd wind up at the bottom of our seniority list.

Or this

Posted by Starman:

That's ok though Wolfpack, you can upgrade in the Ultra in a year or two.


I’ve certainly conducted myself in a civil manner on this board, refraining from unsavory and disgusting references as so many others choose. I have on numerous occasions stated my support for NJA pilots, at the same time objecting to the manner in which some have acted.

I, like many of my fellow NJI pilots didn’t just show up on the flying scene yesterday. I was a soldier, freight pilot, corporate pilot, and an airline pilot (3 of them) long before I came to NJI. I earned the right to be were I am today, no one just gave it too me. So of course I take an interest in what happens to my company because I have a vested interest in it. I’m not here building time waiting for the next big game, I fly the world’s most renowned business jet from one continent to the other. NJI is a great company, managed by great people. I signed on with the expectation that I would work doing ‘a’ and receive ‘b’ as a reward. Now, the IBT wants to change it. And of course because NJI pilots aren’t unionized, that means the IBT thinks they should make all the decisions on how, when, where and so forth.

Basically my gut instinct tells me I smell a rat. I don’t think this has anything to do with senior NJA pilots wanting to fly Gulfstreams. I think it has everything to do with a bunch of young 3-5 year ultra pilots looking for a seat grab. Only time will tell if I’m right or wrong, and if I’m wrong, then I’ll apologize, if I’m right, shame on you!

 

[Hawkered]

Wolf,

You won't have to join the union because of your Grandfather rules, but you'd still have to pay dues. If you didn't the IBT has a legally enforcable right to tender your resignation on your behalf.

 

[old*art]

Wolf - if you have the experience you state then you know you can no more judge the NJA pilot group by the posters here than I can judge the NJI group by the arrogant three I saw sitting in one of our hotel bars under the NO PIPES OR CIGARS sign puffing away on their obnoxious cigars - yes one was a female FA lol. Just as we knew the starting pay at NJA you had to know NJI was built on the rep of NJA financially and the broken promises of an un-named individual. It was not going to be allowed to stand, and it was done by the pilots of NJA - not national IBT. And 1108 is an aberration within the IBT organization. You will not find any of our current leadership's names in the indictment list in the back of every IBT magazine. IBT is just the partner we were given to dance with in this fight - and it was a fight.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

wolfpackpilot let me know your address I will send you my extra gold tie!!!!!