NJI heading to the Teamsters

[Grizz]

Gee - I wonder what BBJ pilot this could be? :laugh:

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Is this an example?

Hopefully the NJI guys will treat the NJA guys with professional respect as the work force is blended.

I believe an NJA pilot has already set the precident for how they feel relations should stand between NJA and NJI pilots.

In his own words on 9/23/2005:

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel
Keep dreaming. It will be done. Just do all of us a favor. When you are over here and are someone's FO, just do your job and get the papers, ice, coffee, catering and clearance and let us know when it's done.

Repeat after me.....STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE

 

[wolfpackpilot]

BBJ guy


Actually you are incorrect on being forced into the union. For arguments sake, let’s say in three years NJI operations are dissolved into NJA. Unless I am completely laid off from my employer and given a written notice of such; I cannot be forced to join or pay any dues or fees associated with Union membership in the event my company is sold, traded (whatever) to a unionized work force. Federal Law protects employees (the term is grandfathered) who did not vote for union representation at the time the union was ushered in or when a non union work forced is merged with a union workforce.

Now if my employment is terminated, and I get a letter saying I can apply to ‘x’ company, then I must abide by the rules of any labor contract that is in place. I still don’t have to join the union, but most states require the employee to pay an administration fee which basically covers the union dues anyway.

A person could hypothetically be forced to work under the rules of a union contract, but they cannot be forced to join a union.

Either way, I will believe it when I see it. Three years is a long time, and my bet is NJI gets sold before your clock strikes midnight.

 

[Mach92]

BBJ guy


Actually you are incorrect on being forced into the union. For arguments sake, let’s say in three years NJI operations are dissolved into NJA. Unless I am completely laid off from my employer and given a written notice of such; I cannot be forced to join or pay any dues or fees associated with Union membership in the event my company is sold, traded (whatever) to a unionized work force. Federal Law protects employees (the term is grandfathered) who did not vote for union representation at the time the union was ushered in or when a non union work forced is merged with a union workforce.

Now if my employment is terminated, and I get a letter saying I can apply to ‘x’ company, then I must abide by the rules of any labor contract that is in place. I still don’t have to join the union, but most states require the employee to pay an administration fee which basically covers the union dues anyway.

A person could hypothetically be forced to work under the rules of a union contract, but they cannot be forced to join a union.

Either way, I will believe it when I see it. Three years is a long time, and my bet is NJI gets sold before your clock strikes midnight.

All you can ever do is be negative. It will happen and if its sold then what? Why do have SUCH a hard time with us ALL being one list? What is your beef?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Just a guess here, but I'd say his beef is with comments from people like Steel when they say "staple, staple, staple."

 

[hydrarkt]

It's a done deal.... NJI is on life support and the grim reaper is hanging around. The good news for NJI is that there is life after death!!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Just a guess here, but I'd say his beef is with comments from people like Steel when they say "staple, staple, staple."

Or this

Posted by Starman:

Either way, he'd wind up at the bottom of our seniority list.

Or this

Posted by Starman:

That's ok though Wolfpack, you can upgrade in the Ultra in a year or two.


I’ve certainly conducted myself in a civil manner on this board, refraining from unsavory and disgusting references as so many others choose. I have on numerous occasions stated my support for NJA pilots, at the same time objecting to the manner in which some have acted.

I, like many of my fellow NJI pilots didn’t just show up on the flying scene yesterday. I was a soldier, freight pilot, corporate pilot, and an airline pilot (3 of them) long before I came to NJI. I earned the right to be were I am today, no one just gave it too me. So of course I take an interest in what happens to my company because I have a vested interest in it. I’m not here building time waiting for the next big game, I fly the world’s most renowned business jet from one continent to the other. NJI is a great company, managed by great people. I signed on with the expectation that I would work doing ‘a’ and receive ‘b’ as a reward. Now, the IBT wants to change it. And of course because NJI pilots aren’t unionized, that means the IBT thinks they should make all the decisions on how, when, where and so forth.

Basically my gut instinct tells me I smell a rat. I don’t think this has anything to do with senior NJA pilots wanting to fly Gulfstreams. I think it has everything to do with a bunch of young 3-5 year ultra pilots looking for a seat grab. Only time will tell if I’m right or wrong, and if I’m wrong, then I’ll apologize, if I’m right, shame on you!

 

[Hawkered]

Wolf,

You won't have to join the union because of your Grandfather rules, but you'd still have to pay dues. If you didn't the IBT has a legally enforcable right to tender your resignation on your behalf.

 

[old*art]

Wolf - if you have the experience you state then you know you can no more judge the NJA pilot group by the posters here than I can judge the NJI group by the arrogant three I saw sitting in one of our hotel bars under the NO PIPES OR CIGARS sign puffing away on their obnoxious cigars - yes one was a female FA lol. Just as we knew the starting pay at NJA you had to know NJI was built on the rep of NJA financially and the broken promises of an un-named individual. It was not going to be allowed to stand, and it was done by the pilots of NJA - not national IBT. And 1108 is an aberration within the IBT organization. You will not find any of our current leadership's names in the indictment list in the back of every IBT magazine. IBT is just the partner we were given to dance with in this fight - and it was a fight.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

wolfpackpilot let me know your address I will send you my extra gold tie!!!!!

 

[Hawkered]

...and on top of that, you have to remember that many crews have just spent years in a Citation Ultra without an APU, while the guys at NJI have got an easy ride in a G-Whizz. NJA spawned NJI, not the other way 'round.

I would take a humbled Ultra captain and teach him/her international procedures in a heartbeat over some self-described "legend".

It is part of the National Labor Relations Board policy to ensure fairness in collective bargaining agreements. By holding onto the same clientele, under the same marketing brand and treating two groups of employees completely seperately would not have "flown" at the upper echelons of litigation.

It is time for you guys at NJI to realize that we have guys with 400 hours of combat time in F-15s and another 5,500 of heavy jet in MD-11s and DC-10s flying around in Ultras! Life has a way of making you humble.

 

[Hogprint]

Wolfpack,

I hear what you're saying, but can you see any benefit to the merger? I don't know this, but I'm willing to bet that since we secured the TA that maybe RTS would bump pay for your side of the house. Kind of a, ease the pain, type raise?

I know nerves are kind of raw at this point, but hopefully we can pull off an easy transition.

PS Great win in ATL Saturday!

 

[SeaSpray]

All you can ever do is be negative. It will happen and if its sold then what? Why do have SUCH a hard time with us ALL being one list? What is your beef?

Maybe it's just because he doesn't want to be a union puppet with someone else pulling his strings and making all his decisions for him. Many pilots chose, as I would have, to go to NJI precisely because it was non union.

 

[Hawkered]

..and many pilots at NJA have chosen to make you part of us, because you took some of our aircraft and our flying.

Your chronology of events needs some correcting.

 

[GVFlyer]

..and many pilots at NJA have chosen to make you part of us, because you took some of our aircraft and our flying.

Your chronology of events needs some correcting.

I can see that this is going to get nasty, but for what it's worth, it was an exception to scope by IBT Local 248 in December 1994 that allowed EJI/NJI to come into being and ensured Gulfstream's participation in making it possible. It looks like you guys have changed your mind.

GV

 

[Grizz]

GV,

Obviously RTS did too...that's why it's in the new TA. Not to mention the fact that he's finally delivering on the promise he made to the pilots who were at EJA at the time.

 

[AA717driver]

Three years is an eternity in this business. Did NJA get any guarantees that any of its pilots could go with NJI in the event of a sale within those three years? TC

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Yes thats the answer. Sale NJI just to screw the pilots. You have to be smarter than that. Santulli wants to make money and not dismantle the company he built. If you were all smart you would organize join the 1108 and get a little protection from being stapled to the bottom of NJA seniortiy list.

 

[Publishers]

I still believe that the single carrier action has no chance. BTW what is to stop NJI from putting together their own in house union or joining another.

 

[BBJPILOT]

BBJ guy


Actually you are incorrect on being forced into the union. Never said you would be! For arguments sake, let’s say in three years NJI operations are dissolved into NJA. Unless I am completely laid off from my employer and given a written notice of such; I cannot be forced to join or pay any dues or fees Now here is where you are wrong, you will not have to join, but by Federal Law (that would be the RLA) you would be required to pay a Service Fee, and just so happens that the current "Service Fee" is the same as the dues the "members" pay. associated with Union membership in the event my company is sold, traded (whatever) to a unionized work force. Federal Law protects employees (the term is grandfathered) who did not vote for union representation at the time the union was ushered in or when a non union work forced is merged with a union workforce. The law you are talking about applies to pilots already in and who came to work at an already unionized workforce, nobody HAS to "Join" the Union, everyone HAS to pay a service fee. A Single Carrier is a representation dispute, and once it is determined that a Union does in fact represent the class and craft, then you are going to be paying a fee. You just wont have grievance protections. You will work under the contract, you just wont get to vote on it, etc. Allegheny-Mohawk is the merger law, may want to read up on that!

Now if my employment is terminated, and I get a letter saying I can apply to ‘x’ company, then I must abide by the rules of any labor contract that is in place. I still don’t have to join the union, but most states require the employee to pay an administration fee which basically covers the union dues anyway. Correct, as stated above, doesn't matter either way.

A person could hypothetically be forced to work under the rules of a union contract, but they cannot be forced to join a union. Never said you would, just that the operation will be unionized at a given date.

Either way, I will believe it when I see it. Three years is a long time, and my bet is NJI gets sold before your clock strikes midnight.

And under the many other scope rerquirements and the RLA, that would be fine as well.