NJA Termination Letters

[gutshotdraw]

Okay, I've got my spoon out to stir the pot a little. I'm hearing that the NJA transfers to NJI are receiving termination letters from NJA. I know the LOU has provisions for transfers to return with all accrued seniority once the seat lock is satisfied or possibly earlier under certain circumstances. So what's the deal with these letters? Anyone? Buehler?

The black helicopter conspiracy theorists are saying impending sale........

 

[FLYLOW22]

Whatever.

NJ (inc) sells the Gulfstream 4-5 division.

What fleet will take it's place to represent this important market for NJ Owners?

Something wll take it's place and it will be staffed by NJA pilots.

Do it, or don't do it. Let's get it on one way or the other.

All NJA/NJI transfers will be welcomed back.

 

[old*art]

No offense but I would have to get this info from a reliable source to believe this as other than pot stirring. I can understand them not being happy with one or two who have gone over so far.

 

[gunfyter]

No offense but I would have to get this info from a reliable source to believe this as other than pot stirring. I can understand them not being happy with one or two who have gone over so far.

*Art,

I believe he is referring to the company taking NJA-NJI transfers OFF our seniority list.

Now for some more pot stirring. There are Dassault FalconJet employees in ILG that insist NJA is getting 7X's with deliveries starting in 2009.

 

[old*art]

Could be .... I could understand the confusion there, but were there any termination letters involved ? I just never heard of any .. but then I am the last 5% to find out anything anyhow.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Had an NJA transfer tell me face to face that he and his NJA G-IV classmate each received a termination letter while in the middle of G-IV initial. I was just curious if this is administrative hoop-jumping or something more.

 

[gunfyter]

Administrative.... All retain Right of Return.

 

[Diesel]

Had an NJA transfer tell me face to face that he and his NJA G-IV classmate each received a termination letter while in the middle of G-IV initial. I was just curious if this is administrative hoop-jumping or something more.
__________________

was this at the hyatt?

 

[notaNJApilot]

Administrative.... All retain Right of Return.

I concur. NJA to NJI pilots remain on the seniority list. Any notification they received could be due to switching companies for the purpose of payroll, benefits, etc.

 

[ozpilot]

The real interesting question is when an NJI transferee is offered an upgrade due to his seniority within NJI - should be in about 2 to 3 years.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I've heard it doesn't work that way. They have to upgrade with their NJA seniority. Otherwise switching to NJI FO is the fast-track to Class 4 captain's pay.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Otherwise switching to NJI FO is the fast-track to Class 4 captain's pay.

Hum... now wouldn't that be ironic?

 

[Hawker dude]

Had an NJA transfer tell me face to face that he and his NJA G-IV classmate each received a termination letter while in the middle of G-IV initial. I was just curious if this is administrative hoop-jumping or something more.

dude,

figure it out, non union never wins....so whatever

 

[old*art]

Wolf have you upgraded yet ? How long have you been at NJI ?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Wolf have you upgraded yet ? How long have you been at NJI ?

Hey Buddy,


No

2 1/2 years

 

[YankeeEcho]

Anyone know where one can obtain a copy of the NJA-NJI Leter of Agreement that was executed at the same time as the contract in November of 2005? A link was once posted here but I can't find it now. This describes the NJA-to-NJI procedure, rights and priviledges.

 

[Diesel]

I'm more curious about the impeding sale rumors.

 

[hydrarkt]

I'm buying NJI and firing all those union losers from NJA.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm more curious about the impeding sale rumors.

I might be missing something but...

The G 4/5 is a great product. Our Owners like them. Why would NJ sell them just because of some pesky Union contract or Single Carrier Lawsuit?

Money is money.

If the G Unit were sold off, our owners would still need to be flown by NJA pilots (any new equipment additions) per Scope provisions. Any new fleet types except the existin G4 and 5 are NJA flown.

7X? G4/5? Who cares?

It's more of a marketing dilema I think.

Either way... Single company.

 

[johnsonrod]

I might be missing something but...

The G 4/5 is a great product. Our Owners like them. Why would NJ sell them just because of some pesky Union contract or Single Carrier Lawsuit?

Money is money.

If the G Unit were sold off, our owners would still need to be flown by NJA pilots (any new equipment additions) per Scope provisions. Any new fleet types except the existin G4 and 5 are NJA flown.

7X? G4/5? Who cares?

It's more of a marketing dilema I think.

Either way... Single company.

More flying for underutilized EJM Gulfstream/Challenger/Falcon airplanes...

 

[Diesel]

Hate to tell you if the owners don't see a QS tail they don't want it. No matter if its a EJM plane or not.

They pay for QS they are going to get qs

 

[FLYLOW22]

More flying for underutilized EJM Gulfstream/Challenger/Falcon airplanes...

There are also Scope limits on this type of flying. So long as it's done within limits of the CBA, so beit.

But what's the point? Shedding the G 4/5 operation or pumping up EJM ops within Scope limits just to spite NJA pilots is completely retarded, below NJ management, counter to IBB efforts and a complete 180 from progress made since 2005.

Can't see it happening.

 

[old*art]

I could not agree more. RTS is a businessman first and foremost and I - personal opinion - feel he thinks he has finally met a pilot leadership group as tough as he is who are dedicated to seeing NJA succeed and grow .. which he respects. NJI will be assimilated per his original promise long ago .. define assimilated however you want. Still trust but verify.

 

[ozpilot]

RTS has said time and time again that the NJI can unionize anytime they want, but the pilots have to want to do so.

I can't see the NJI pilots voting in 1108 any time soon. Why?

Given that half the NJI pilot group is first officers, why would any vote for a union when they would immediately place them towards the bottom of a greatly expanded seniority list? No Gee-Wiz upgrade for you!

As for the Captains most of the ones I've spoken to still see the teamsters as a bunch of beer carrying truck drivers, and don't see any advantage to joining the union.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

They pay for QS they are going to get qs

Totally agree. EJM doesn't cut it for the long haul. People want to see that paint job, that blue uniform on the FA, the brown interior, etc. etc.

As for the sale, I don't see it. The lift cannot go away, and it cant be quickly replaced. I just cant see NJI being sold, but still flying NetJets Owners under the current arrangement.

But don't take my advice, I still own Midway stock... any day baby, any day it gonna pay.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I can't see the NJI pilots voting in 1108 any time soon. Why?

Because the 1108 hasn't given them a reason too, thats why.

I gotta know what's in the pot before I raise the bet.

 

[hydrarkt]

hmmm... job protection, great contract, fatigue language, scope language, pay protection... that's not enough??? I'm sure there's much more!! Cmon over, the water's warm!

 

[hydrarkt]

Also, the general perception is that if NJI pilots come to 1108 volunteeirly, the seniority list integration will be much better for them. If 1108 has to file the single carrier lawsuit and force integration, it won't be as beneficial to the NJI pilots. Of course, there's the chance that the single carrier lawsuit will fail. Then it's business as usual. But the best thing for all, including the company is an integrated seniority list.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Also, the general perception is that if NJI pilots come to 1108 volunteeirly, the seniority list integration will be much better for them.

But the best thing for all, including the company is an integrated seniority list.

Perceptions: Looking at a painting in the M.M.A. and seeing a whale swimming in the ocean, while your wife sees an Eskimo roller skating on the moon.....

Until the 1108 makes a public statement, NJI pilots will do nothing. Last year I was very much interested in finding out what your leaderships position was. So I called every old friend I had over there (found out one of my old students was on the 1108 MEC). I was told through the grape vine, the MEC promised not to talk with NJI pilots under any circumstances until after the Single Carrier. So... if you're not talking.....

I do agree 100% that the best thing for everyone (company included) is for the pilot groups to find common ground, and work together. At no time can this turn into another NWA/Republic debacle, my family's livelihood depends on it (and so does yours).

The A pilots @ NJI have proven (except for THE ONE) we can get along and share a cockpit, although I haven't done it myself yet.

My $5.00 goes on:


No sale of NJI
No filing of Single Carrier
No NJI union movement
NJA homebasing for all
NJA/NJI LOA continues for eternity
6-10 years from now, 'possible' merger of the pilot groups

 

[CastofThousands]

My $5.00 goes on:


No sale of NJI
No filing of Single Carrier
No NJI union movement
NJA homebasing for all
NJA/NJI LOA continues for eternity
6-10 years from now, 'possible' merger of the pilot groups

I wanted to codify this so we can revisit the issue in the near future. I respectfully request we move on to the acceptance and solutions phase of the issue. An amicable resolution and burring the past is very much in everyone’s best interests.

If someone is naive enough to think that this isn’t being addressed – they are failing to accept the state of affairs (NetJets has outperformed every expectation in 2006 and 2007) and the simple fact a pilot’s union that is business solution based has cracked both codes; principled labor disputes and business solutions. NetJets has never performed better while NetJets owners have never been more pleased with the service. One of the main reasons is the talent and business solutions initiatives the union initiated with a management team that was prepared to try something new. Clearly this is to the benefit of all; owners/cardholders, employees, and shareholders.
We’re only closing the first phase of a multi-phase transition. The moral of the story – a large unionized pilot group has more to offer than many ever realized. Further, the unionized group is out performing any historical data.

Quite simply, that’s how the unionized pilots will get what they want – professionalism and performance. As they say, just follow the money, and the money says labor peace benefits all. Then ask one simple question. If Interest Based Bargaining sets new standards, what’s the only outstanding issue to long-term labor peace? With this answer we can all move on to the acceptance and solutions phase of the issue.

Respectfully,