NJA Termination Letters

[Diesel]

Hate to tell you if the owners don't see a QS tail they don't want it. No matter if its a EJM plane or not.

They pay for QS they are going to get qs

 

[FLYLOW22]

More flying for underutilized EJM Gulfstream/Challenger/Falcon airplanes...

There are also Scope limits on this type of flying. So long as it's done within limits of the CBA, so beit.

But what's the point? Shedding the G 4/5 operation or pumping up EJM ops within Scope limits just to spite NJA pilots is completely retarded, below NJ management, counter to IBB efforts and a complete 180 from progress made since 2005.

Can't see it happening.

 

[old*art]

I could not agree more. RTS is a businessman first and foremost and I - personal opinion - feel he thinks he has finally met a pilot leadership group as tough as he is who are dedicated to seeing NJA succeed and grow .. which he respects. NJI will be assimilated per his original promise long ago .. define assimilated however you want. Still trust but verify.

 

[ozpilot]

RTS has said time and time again that the NJI can unionize anytime they want, but the pilots have to want to do so.

I can't see the NJI pilots voting in 1108 any time soon. Why?

Given that half the NJI pilot group is first officers, why would any vote for a union when they would immediately place them towards the bottom of a greatly expanded seniority list? No Gee-Wiz upgrade for you!

As for the Captains most of the ones I've spoken to still see the teamsters as a bunch of beer carrying truck drivers, and don't see any advantage to joining the union.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

They pay for QS they are going to get qs

Totally agree. EJM doesn't cut it for the long haul. People want to see that paint job, that blue uniform on the FA, the brown interior, etc. etc.

As for the sale, I don't see it. The lift cannot go away, and it cant be quickly replaced. I just cant see NJI being sold, but still flying NetJets Owners under the current arrangement.

But don't take my advice, I still own Midway stock... any day baby, any day it gonna pay.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I can't see the NJI pilots voting in 1108 any time soon. Why?

Because the 1108 hasn't given them a reason too, thats why.

I gotta know what's in the pot before I raise the bet.

 

[hydrarkt]

hmmm... job protection, great contract, fatigue language, scope language, pay protection... that's not enough??? I'm sure there's much more!! Cmon over, the water's warm!

 

[hydrarkt]

Also, the general perception is that if NJI pilots come to 1108 volunteeirly, the seniority list integration will be much better for them. If 1108 has to file the single carrier lawsuit and force integration, it won't be as beneficial to the NJI pilots. Of course, there's the chance that the single carrier lawsuit will fail. Then it's business as usual. But the best thing for all, including the company is an integrated seniority list.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Also, the general perception is that if NJI pilots come to 1108 volunteeirly, the seniority list integration will be much better for them.

But the best thing for all, including the company is an integrated seniority list.

Perceptions: Looking at a painting in the M.M.A. and seeing a whale swimming in the ocean, while your wife sees an Eskimo roller skating on the moon.....

Until the 1108 makes a public statement, NJI pilots will do nothing. Last year I was very much interested in finding out what your leaderships position was. So I called every old friend I had over there (found out one of my old students was on the 1108 MEC). I was told through the grape vine, the MEC promised not to talk with NJI pilots under any circumstances until after the Single Carrier. So... if you're not talking.....

I do agree 100% that the best thing for everyone (company included) is for the pilot groups to find common ground, and work together. At no time can this turn into another NWA/Republic debacle, my family's livelihood depends on it (and so does yours).

The A pilots @ NJI have proven (except for THE ONE) we can get along and share a cockpit, although I haven't done it myself yet.

My $5.00 goes on:


No sale of NJI
No filing of Single Carrier
No NJI union movement
NJA homebasing for all
NJA/NJI LOA continues for eternity
6-10 years from now, 'possible' merger of the pilot groups

 

[CastofThousands]

My $5.00 goes on:


No sale of NJI
No filing of Single Carrier
No NJI union movement
NJA homebasing for all
NJA/NJI LOA continues for eternity
6-10 years from now, 'possible' merger of the pilot groups

I wanted to codify this so we can revisit the issue in the near future. I respectfully request we move on to the acceptance and solutions phase of the issue. An amicable resolution and burring the past is very much in everyone’s best interests.

If someone is naive enough to think that this isn’t being addressed – they are failing to accept the state of affairs (NetJets has outperformed every expectation in 2006 and 2007) and the simple fact a pilot’s union that is business solution based has cracked both codes; principled labor disputes and business solutions. NetJets has never performed better while NetJets owners have never been more pleased with the service. One of the main reasons is the talent and business solutions initiatives the union initiated with a management team that was prepared to try something new. Clearly this is to the benefit of all; owners/cardholders, employees, and shareholders.
We’re only closing the first phase of a multi-phase transition. The moral of the story – a large unionized pilot group has more to offer than many ever realized. Further, the unionized group is out performing any historical data.

Quite simply, that’s how the unionized pilots will get what they want – professionalism and performance. As they say, just follow the money, and the money says labor peace benefits all. Then ask one simple question. If Interest Based Bargaining sets new standards, what’s the only outstanding issue to long-term labor peace? With this answer we can all move on to the acceptance and solutions phase of the issue.

Respectfully,

 

[YankeeEcho]

I wanted to codify this so we can revisit the issue in the near future. . . . . . The moral of the story – a large unionized pilot group has more to offer than many ever realized. . . . . . Further, the unionized group is out performing any historical data. . . . . Respectfully,

Dear Cast of Thousands;
Your statement is eloquent, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but specious.
It assumes that only with a union (and/or because of a union) can these performance measures be achieved. This is wrong. Others have met those criteria without a union and can continue to do so. I applaud your success and the achievement of increased performance - but don't force your solutions on others that don't need or want them.
I respect your right of self-determination - please respect ours.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Dear Cast of Thousands;
Your statement is eloquent, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but specious.
It assumes that only with a union (and/or because of a union) can these performance measures be achieved. This is wrong. Others have met those criteria without a union and can continue to do so. I applaud your success and the achievement of increased performance - but don't force your solutions on others that don't need or want them.
I respect your right of self-determination - please respect ours.

I've been saying this for months and everybody seems to think I'm the CEO of two different fractionals because I don't believe that unions help anything nowadays. You hit it right on the button. Nicely stated.

 

[Count]

Dear Cast of Thousands;
Your statement is eloquent, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but specious.
It assumes that only with a union (and/or because of a union) can these performance measures be achieved. This is wrong. Others have met those criteria without a union and can continue to do so. I applaud your success and the achievement of increased performance - but don't force your solutions on others that don't need or want them.
I respect your right of self-determination - please respect ours.

YE,
Its not about union or not union, its about cash.
More class 4 airplanes for NJA = more money for NJA pilots.

 

[Willy21]

Honest question here. What happens in 5-10 years when the GIV-GV line is replaced by something else? Is NJA going to give up scope on a new class 4 aircraft? Probably not. Wouldn't it be better to solve these problems before we get backed into a corner and things get ugly?

 

[CastofThousands]

Dear Cast of Thousands;
Your statement is eloquent, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but specious.
It assumes that only with a union (and/or because of a union) can these performance measures be achieved. This is wrong. Others have met those criteria without a union and can continue to do so. I applaud your success and the achievement of increased performance - but don't force your solutions on others that don't need or want them.
I respect your right of self-determination - please respect ours.

In my world only family, friends, and “The Man” above come before profession. Please notice I didn’t say union, which in my mind solely exists to advance the interests of our profession. As long as there is a “house” for the profession to convene, protect, and advance our professional interests, I will sleep well at night.

A pilot’s (*note “pilot’s,” not pilots) union or association is only as effective as the leadership and more so, the membership. As with any organization, ignorance and complacency are poison pills. So while many refer to it as a union, I genuinely only see it as an organization that exists for the profession, not for the benefit of the [union] organization. Meaning, L-1108 exists for the pilots, not the Teamsters. It is my personal opinion the IBT will eventually lose the NetJets pilot group (and possibly the Flight Options pilot group) because the IBT believes the pilots exist for the benefit of the Teamsters; backwards thinking, at best. So consider me the purist or the elitist, but rest assured my interests are continued professional development. This requires strong companies, progressive labor relations, and like minded people working together for everyone’s benefit; customer, employee, and shareholder. What makes NetJets unique is the fact the pilot group has incredible confidence in the pilot’s union leadership and organization – they respond to the leadership and organization – and today they are responding in a way that no management team has ever been able to get them to respond. The common thread to all of the above is, the union. Will it stay this way indefinitely? Most likely not. What we have today is very unique in every sense of the imagination. BUT, if management can learn and retool the organization to balance customer, employee, and shareholder interests, they will be able to build off the inertia NetJets has today. Ironically, I am saying management should be so good, employees should perform so well, and the customers should be so excited to write that check every month that the pilot’s union can primarily focus on professional issues such as safety.

If one takes a step back and looks at the global professional issues they should be able to recognize there are much better things to invest in than fighting management. That being said, management must do their part first, so the union/association can redirect their time and resources. So to the point, if having a union/association keeps management honest and fair, but, the union/association invests more time and efforts into professional issues such as realistic duty and rest regulations while advocating “one level of safety,” ATC funding and “Next Gen” ATC infrastructure the union/association is creating something the sole pilot looking for the pay check and the flight time can’t; a profession as opposed to a job.

Respectfully,

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Honest question here. What happens in 5-10 years when the GIV-GV line is replaced by something else?

The GIV is currently being replaced by the G450, and the V by the G550. Both of these planes are state of the art new generation aircraft that will see service life's of 15+ years. It will be another 10 before Gulfstream even announces a replacement for these aircraft.

Your looking at a minimum of 20-25 years before the current G planes are gone. Wow... just realized I will be too, its the big 40 this November for me.

 

[old*art]

Ah come on Wolf, you know the SSBJ is just around the corner !! Its the "Burn Before Reading" project at SAV.

 

[gunfyter]

Wow... just realized I will be too, its the big 40 this November for me.

That was the good old day....

 

[ProFracPilot]

It will be another 10 before Gulfstream even announces a replacement for these aircraft.

Maybe not a replacement for those aircraft. But there's going to be "Global Express Killer" (wide cabin) announced in the not-too-distant future...

...thread hijack over...

 

[wolfpackpilot]

But there's going to be "Global Express Killer" (wide cabin) announced in the not-too-distant future.../quote]

I believe your correct. Gulfstream absolutely has "something" new in the works. But I dont think it will be a replacement for any current product. The 450/550 line is selling very well, and I don't see them shutting it down for many years to come.

However, if the new wide cabin aircraft does everything the 550 can do and more; and it's within 25% of the current price of a 550 then its a different game.