NJA Struggling?

[Freedom]

Old Political Game: Repeat it enough and they start believing it...

The sad part is, that with the union on the property for the last 3 years, FLOPS couldn't give them a pay or benefit increase even if the wanted to. But, the collective union is smarter than company leadership

Written by Bob 19

Problem is Bob19, the fact that you bring us back to the idea that Management ever had any intent of voluntarily giving this Pilot group a Payraise, falls straight in line with Managements' "Promise" before the Union Representational Vote:

"If you just Vote down the Union, we will be giving the Pilots a Payraise."

Well, 67% of our Pilots saw through your BS Bob, and told you to shove your lie back up the hole it came out of.

Some of the 33% may have believed you; or just were too apathetic to vote. Either way, after they have seen the Terror campaign that you and the rest of Management have unleashed upon this Professional Pilot Group, I'd venture to say, you now have well over 85% against you Bob19.

But you go ahead and keep attempting to justify that inflated paycheck of yours; we know you have to show your boss you are doing something with your day.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[B19 Flyer]

"If you just Vote down the Union, we will be giving the Pilots a Payraise."

Well, 67% of our Pilots saw through your BS Bob, and told you to shove your lie back up the hole it came out of.

Some of the 33% may have believed you; or just were too apathetic to vote. Either way, after they have seen the Terror campaign that you and the rest of Management have unleashed upon this Professional Pilot Group, I'd venture to say, you now have well over 85% against you Bob19.

But you go ahead and keep attempting to justify that inflated paycheck of yours; we know you have to show your boss you are doing something with your day.

Freedom is Not Free

Looks to me there are two groups there that are the smart ones.


Those that voted against the union and can look at the rest of you and say "I told you this would be massive turmoil if we voted it in".

Those that got out of there.

The rest are getting exactly what they asked for.

Nothing.

 

[Freedom]

Wrong again Bob19....

Looks to me there are two groups there that are the smart ones.


Those that voted against the union and can look at the rest of you and say "I told you this would be massive turmoil if we voted it in".

Those that got out of there.

The rest are getting exactly what they asked for.

Nothing.

We got rid of the Devil's Brother Michael Sh-tfinger.

Now we are just waiting for the rapidly approaching day when we get rid of his Pit Bull that was left on the property.

Any idea who that might be Bob19? I believe you'll find out the day after our Contract is settled.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

You guys are the dummys that work for unions.

Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind.

 

[B19 Flyer]

We got rid of the Devil's Brother Michael Sh-tfinger.

Now we are just waiting for the rapidly approaching day when we get rid of his Pit Bull that was left on the property.

Any idea who that might be Bob19? I believe you'll find out the day after our Contract is settled.

Freedom is Not Free

1108 failed if the contract you get is even 1 penny less then what NJ is.

They made you promises they can't keep.

Now, after the contract concession happens over the next year of so there, it might be a different story, but either way.. if it doesn't exceed NJ, then you were lied to.

 

[fischman]

Yeah...

There is no way he is a union buster...

 

[Freedom]

So what are you saying Bob19?

1108 failed if the contract you get is even 1 penny less then what NJ is.

They made you promises they can't keep.

Now, after the contract concession happens over the next year of so there, it might be a different story, but either way.. if it doesn't exceed NJ, then you were lied to.

Are you saying that if a Presidential Candidate makes promises to the American Public, and then once in Office he cannot fullfill all the promises he made, that he or she has been a Bad President?

Name me 1, just 1, US President that has been able to come through on every campaign promise they made; just 1 President Bob19 ?

Besides, regardless upon the exact dollar amount, whatever it finally boils down to, the fact that the dollar amount will not be able to be reduced at Management's will with a simple blackberry email, is more important than the actual number itself.

Moreover, the ability to be Protected from Predators like YOU, who dish out their own "Selective Justice" depending upon whether or not the individual who stepped on their dick or was just not liked by you, was a management butt kisser or not; that alone, will make the Contract worth the battle.

So you go right ahead and attempt to continue your Divide and Conquer tactics.

This Pilot Group now knows who and what you are; and we will fight you every inch of the way, until your last toe is pushed out the door.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[brokeflyer]

I already said this all managements fault because they failed to pay their employees......I also said its undisputable.....topic is now closed.

 

[o2bflyn]

Yeah...

There is no way he is a union buster...

yeah, I mean there is nothing different going on now as compared to the time NJ did their contract. Its not like the economy is in the crapper or anything.

 

[B19 Flyer]

yeah, I mean there is nothing different going on now as compared to the time NJ did their contract. Its not like the economy is in the crapper or anything.

Yeah... apparently the UAW is acting like ALPA and all the other aviation unions, no matter how bad it is, you can't adjust to industry standard... even if it is the taxpayers that are the ones paying the tab to keep the industry afloat. Yep, great comparison here... but if the UAW doesn't smarten up quickly and set an example, the big three are going to be Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

Yep, the unions will fight for their workers right up until the doors are locked and the paychecks stop.

Once again, this proves my point. Unions fail to act when the pressure is on and when they do, it's never enough and the collateral damage to non union workers is always staggering. But I guess those in aviation that love their unions will get exactly what they asked for. Nothing.

 

[BeeDubya]

Once again, this proves my point. Unions fail to act when the pressure is on and when they do, it's never enough and the collateral damage to non union workers is always staggering. But I guess those in aviation that love their unions will get exactly what they asked for. Nothing.

B19,

It proves that some Unions fail. Painting with broad brushes or categorically applying examples of "some" to "all" is simply flawed logic.

I will agree with you that many Unions, aviation and otherwise, have failed to serve their members and not been willing to work with management for mutual benefit. Likewise, many management "teams" have failed their employees and have not been willing to work with their employees (Union or non-Union) for mutual benefit.

Personally, I'd rather judge each Union and management team on their own merits. Some will probably be good, others bad, but very few "shining knights" or "psychopathic evil."

Just my $0.02.

 

[JungleJett]

Have you guys ever thought you might be contributing to the declining mental faculties and reasoning abilities of this B19 person? You are feeding his paranoia of unions by responding to him. You are not doing him or his therapist any favors by interacting with him.

 

[RNObased]

Have you guys ever thought you might be contributing to the declining mental faculties and reasoning abilities of this B19 person? You are feeding his paranoia of unions by responding to him. You are not doing him or his therapist any favors by interacting with him.

Valid point.

 

[o2bflyn]

Yeah... apparently the UAW is acting like ALPA and all the other aviation unions, no matter how bad it is, you can't adjust to industry standard... even if it is the taxpayers that are the ones paying the tab to keep the industry afloat. Yep, great comparison here... but if the UAW doesn't smarten up quickly and set an example, the big three are going to be Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

Yep, the unions will fight for their workers right up until the doors are locked and the paychecks stop.

Once again, this proves my point. Unions fail to act when the pressure is on and when they do, it's never enough and the collateral damage to non union workers is always staggering. But I guess those in aviation that love their unions will get exactly what they asked for. Nothing.

Come on...you can do better than that. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[NJAowner]

Efficiencies

Well my $$ is where my mouth (or keyboard) is.

I think that NJA is the best fractional to handle a downturn in flying. Period. I also think that NJA will not furlough pilots until ablsolutely necessary. NJA would liek nothing else for marketing purposes than to coontinue to show that it is the stongest financially in the business. That way, unlike buying a card, when y9u buy a share you are entrusting the company not only to fly you safely, but to manage your multimillion dollar asset well. Those without financial strength will have trouble convincing owners of this. Thus far, NJA has not copied any of the "savings programs for owners" such as limiting days of flights or being able to change your flight by an hour or two to save you $$.

There will always be inefficiencies at NJA. I posted many months ago that one of the goals of NJA service s to have a plane ready when and where the owner wants it. Period. Unfortunately, to be able to do this can be quite inefficient. However, I the owner want this serivce, accept and pay for the inefficiency. CS for example cna save you $$ is they can move your flight an hour in either direction and will cinfirm the exact time the night before. This is highly efficient -- think of the times NJA could use one plane instead of 2 if it could move the first flight an hour earlier and the 2nd flight an hour later (I arrive at airport KXXX at 3 p.m. and owner 2 wants to leave at 3 pm. Move my flight to a 2 pm arrival and his to a 4 pm departure and the operator can use 1 jet and crew instead of 2. Highly efficient; low customer service). But the owners want to go when they want to go. Period.

Fly safe.

 

[skiandsurf]

CS for example cna save you $$ is they can move your flight an hour in either direction and will cinfirm the exact time the night before. This is highly efficient -- think of the times NJA could use one plane instead of 2 if it could move the first flight an hour earlier and the 2nd flight an hour later (I arrive at airport KXXX at 3 p.m. and owner 2 wants to leave at 3 pm. Move my flight to a 2 pm arrival and his to a 4 pm departure and the operator can use 1 jet and crew instead of 2. Highly efficient; low customer service). But the owners want to go when they want to go. Period.

Fly safe.

I thought NJs had the ability to do the same thing. Its an offer made to the owner, that can be turned down. (what do I know, I just fly them).

I would think that NJs could also get into the charter side of things. With the size of the NJs fleet, I would think that NJs could fly charter flights for less than the competition (less ferry times).

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Be fearful when others are greedy, but greedy when others are fearful. -WB

I think at this point, RTS is not reacting to how the other fractional are behaving, but rather how NJA can increase market shares and provides better Return On Investment for the owners. Like SWA is waiting for UA and Frontier to weaken and move into Denver, NJA is doing the same in the fractional world (I hope).

 

[LukinUp]

Originally Posted by Diesel
Relax everything will be fine. Everyone is in a downturn but there are 5 year contracts.

Not according to this...

http://www.fractrade.com/

Yeah but they would still have to "sell" their share to get out. Pretty sure the market is saturated right now.

 

[7on7Off]

First of all ... there will not be any furloughs.

Aircraft are being delivered. When that changes ... lets talk again.

Little fuel for the rumor fire... I heard that NJA has canceled most if not all of their Cessna delivieries for 2009?

Comments?

 

[brokeflyer]

yeah we're even giving a lot of planes back.....does that make everyone happy now?

EVERYTHING sucks right now, so whatever you can think of that's bad is probly happening. NJA will lay-off, we're giving planes back, we're losing owners.

There now we can talk about football.

 

[NJAowner]

Ski&Surf -- that option for NJA is only for the 10 peak days each year. CS and others offer it all year round for a discount.

 

[theskyking]

Originally Posted by Diesel
Relax everything will be fine. Everyone is in a downturn but there are 5 year contracts.



Yeah but they would still have to "sell" their share to get out. Pretty sure the market is saturated right now.

Not exactly true. The owner has the option to sell his share back to the company after a specified time. Once this sell back window is reached, the owner just has to notify the company that they want to sell the share. The company then has a 30 day window to set the price for the share at a fair market price. Once the 30 days is up, the company is obligated to buy the share and the owner is out free and clear.

The effect the present market has on this scenario is the fair market price that is set for the buy out. The owner would be taking a major hit from what they paid originally to what the share is worth right now.

That's my understanding the buy out clause in all of the NJ contracts.

 

[NETFLIER]

Brokeflyer is either new to fractional/netjets, or just doesnt understand.(probably came from the airlines)

This Cre-cession(credit crunch + recession) will touch all of us. HOWEVER, Netjets is the strongest aviation company in the WORLD financially. Pretax Profit of $450 million in 07' and profit will be made in 08. 09, maybe not so much. We have many areas to cut, should we have to, before our pilot force will be affected.

When we spend a dollar now to advertise, it will actually be worth more than a dollar as competition will cut back due to cut backs. There is no change in our business plan going forward, but there will be much more "careful" spending my management on any growth. 2009 will be a very rough year for all, but i am glad i am at the Company i am, ONLY NETJETS!

 

[jehtplane]

Brokeflyer is either new to fractional/netjets, or just doesnt understand.(probably came from the airlines)

This Cre-cession(credit crunch + recession) will touch all of us. HOWEVER, Netjets is the strongest aviation company in the WORLD financially. Pretax Profit of $450 million in 07' and profit will be made in 08. 09, maybe not so much. We have many areas to cut, should we have to, before our pilot force will be affected.

When we spend a dollar now to advertise, it will actually be worth more than a dollar as competition will cut back due to cut backs. There is no change in our business plan going forward, but there will be much more "careful" spending my management on any growth. 2009 will be a very rough year for all, but i am glad i am at the Company i am, ONLY NETJETS!

I hope for your companies sake you are correct, but I sure would not want to be in the bottom 400 or so on your senoirity list. Good luck to us all.

 

[JungleJett]

Breaking NJA News......furlough.

I heard they just furloughed RTS!

Discuss.....










Seriously people...this is like arguing about death. When it comes, there is NOTHING you can really do about it. If my beloved NJA furloughs, I will probably be in the mix. Will it suck...sure. Will it be the end of the world...doubt it. Will I have to find another gig to pay the bills...yup. Will my kid eat...without a doubt. Will I keep a positive attitude...no other way to live. I trust that our management will make the right business choices and if cutting back on manning is one of them, then I will accept it and hope that I will not be gone for long. I would rather be where I am on the seniority list at NJA then in the top 15% at my previous employer.

 

[brokeflyer]

Brokeflyer is either new to fractional/netjets, or just doesnt understand.(probably came from the airlines)

This Cre-cession(credit crunch + recession) will touch all of us. HOWEVER, Netjets is the strongest aviation company in the WORLD financially. Pretax Profit of $450 million in 07' and profit will be made in 08. 09, maybe not so much. We have many areas to cut, should we have to, before our pilot force will be affected.

When we spend a dollar now to advertise, it will actually be worth more than a dollar as competition will cut back due to cut backs. There is no change in our business plan going forward, but there will be much more "careful" spending my management on any growth. 2009 will be a very rough year for all, but i am glad i am at the Company i am, ONLY NETJETS!

It's hard to be sarcastic online.....re-read my post.

your apology will be accepted.

 

[glasspilot]

I trust that our management will make the right business choices and if cutting back on manning is one of them, then I will accept it and hope that I will not be gone for long. I would rather be where I am on the seniority list at NJA then in the top 15% at my previous employer.

How in the tank do you have to be to make THAT statement? Ya'll running a cult over there?

 

[imacdog]

Glass, while no company is immune to the effects from a shrinking economy, I believe there are many companies out there that have a good chance of going completely under before NetJets does. I don't know where JJ came from but I also feel slightly more secure here than I would at my previous company at any seniority level.

 

[glasspilot]

Ya'll must have worked at one hell of a crap company to prefer furlough to it.

You do know furlough has ZERO pay...even at NetJets, right?

 

[imacdog]

Yes, Glass. However as long as the company is solvent, furlough comes with recall rights. If a company goes completely under, that is not the case. To clarify my previous post, even with the possibility of furlough at NetJets, I still consider it a better career opportunity than hoping my previous company stays solvent.