NJA Struggling?

[fischman]

That's the funniest thing I've read today. :laugh:

I haven't worked for a company with a union for years and by coincidence, it's the longest stretch I've ever seen without the threat of a furlough or layoff.

I've seen the light.. and it's clear you would rather live with turmoil. Some people are just gluttons for punishment.

I guess your memory isn't that good. Your company furloughed 104 pilots last week.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I guess your memory isn't that good. Your company furloughed 104 pilots last week.

I haven't worked for a company that has furloughed pilots in over 5 years fischman. That stopped after MY last layoff and I went to a non-union company.

 

[B19 Flyer]

And doctors and lawyers.

Key point in negotiations is to try and set the bar lower. What B19 is doing is trying to reduce our self worth so that we accept less in our professional lives.

Find once single post where I have stated that a pilot should be paid less. Never, not once have I ever stated that. Go ahead, find it. There is my challenge.

It's the contract that strangles companies and takes away options, not the payroll.

A CBA is big picture stuff, the cost doesn't stop with payroll, it goes to scope, the bid process, hotels, being able to negotiate cost within the business community. Pension, health and benefits programs are locked in and financial decisions can't be made to be more cost effective. A CBA hampers the company from making good business decisions that are far above and beyond the payroll and matching government contributions that they have to make.

Never once have I stated that a pilot should make less, but I do believe that there should be fairness throughout the organization and senior leadership should have the ability to adjust to an ever changing marketplace.

A CBA prevents that.

 

[Diesel]

You really crack me up.

Never once have I stated that a pilot should make less, but I do believe that there should be fairness throughout the organization

Translation: Pilots are paid to much now and pay needs to be reduced to increase profits.

senior leadership should have the ability to adjust to an ever changing marketplace.

Translation: We (management) want to pick the low hanging fruit (pilot pay) instead of cleaning up our own house and having to make decisions that affect our own careers. We will just pick easy quality of life issues that won't affect our own quality of life.

It's the contract that strangles companies and takes away options, not the payroll.

Translation: We (management) want to be able to make the changes we want so that we can cover up our lack of understanding of our own jobs.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You really crack me up.



Translation: Pilots are paid to much now and pay needs to be reduced to increase profits.

Never stated that. The challenge is for you to find the post were I did.


Translation: We (management) want to pick the low hanging fruit (pilot pay) instead of cleaning up our own house and having to make decisions that affect our own careers. We will just pick easy quality of life issues that won't affect our own quality of life.

Once again, never stated that. But if that is your understanding of it, it's no wonder the union walks on the pilot group the way they do.

Translation: We (management) want to be able to make the changes we want so that we can cover up our lack of understanding of our own jobs.

Pilots fly airplanes. If they could manage, they would become managers but most of them haven't the courage to take on things bigger than work on a flight by flight basis. Walk in their shoes before you make that statement, I'm sure you haven't.

...............

 

[Diesel]

Pilots fly airplanes. If they could manage, they would become managers but most of them haven't the courage to take on things bigger than work on a flight by flight basis. Walk in their shoes before you make that statement, I'm sure you haven't.

Oh how really wrong you are. Currently I run 3 different business and a 4th one coming online in January. So I walk in their shoes and I still throw the BS flag when i see it.

Union busters bust unions. They usually have something morally wrong with them that comes from being touched as a child, a couple of divorces and trying to lash out at the world against those that have it better than them. They justify it that they are doing it for the greater good but when they go back to their rental apartment and realize that nobody is there for them they die a little each day inside. Trying to justify that the money is worth the pain.

 

[RNObased]

That's the funniest thing I've read today. :laugh:

I haven't worked for a company with a union for years and by coincidence, it's the longest stretch I've ever seen without the threat of a furlough or layoff.

Well good for you. Then why don't you concentrate on your job, or is your job to spead hate??

I don't live in turmoil; don't project your issues onto others, it is a sign of mental illness.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Oh how really wrong you are. Currently I run 3 different business and a 4th one coming online in January. So I walk in their shoes and I still throw the BS flag when i see it.


So, if the people that work for you simply came in and told you that you are going to increase their pay (thereby increasing your contribution to the goverment also), and force you to give them vacation and create work rules where they get 50% of every day off each month, (or your suppliers doubled their costs) you would just reach into your pocket and just give it to them without questioning them.

You are so full of crap you stink.


Union busters bust unions.

I'm not a union buster. anymore than you are a legitimate small business owner.

They usually have something morally wrong with them that comes from being touched as a child, a couple of divorces and trying to lash out at the world against those that have it better than them.

I think anybody that demands and blackmails their employer through the use of a union is weak, and unable to take command of their own life and career. They are like the schoolyard bully that will take everybody elses lunch money right up until somebody fights back. Morals? None. I've seen union behavior in negotiations. Have you?


They justify it that they are doing it for the greater good but when they go back to their rental apartment and realize that nobody is there for them they die a little each day inside. Trying to justify that the money is worth the pain.

Isn't that funny you should say that.

The selfish union leadership would prefer to send all their pilots to an unemployment line (and subsequently their rental apartments) rather than put together a CBA that is fair for the entire company.

...................

 

[B19 Flyer]

Well good for you. Then why don't you concentrate on your job, or is your job to spead hate??

I don't live in turmoil; don't project your issues onto others, it is a sign of mental illness.

If you work for a union carrier, then you have either gone through union turmoil yourself or have put others through that turmoil.

Non-union companies can't enjoy that feeling that you appear to consider normal.

I'm not the one spreading hate, I'm non-union.

 

[fischman]

I haven't worked for a company that has furloughed pilots in over 5 years fischman. That stopped after MY last layoff and I went to a non-union company.

Yet another lie.

Come on man... Do you honestly think we don't realize you work for FLOPS??? How stupid do you think we are? You have yet again demonstrated your low opinion of pilots.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Union busters bust unions.

I'm not a union buster. anymore than you are a legitimate small business owner.

In your own words, since Diesel actually is a legitimate small business owner, it would naturally follow that...

 

[brokeflyer]

the problem is management has to get the most amount of profit regardless of what that does to anyone else. Management creates this aroma of hate.

They create unhappy employees then wonder why business is bad. Then they have to blame someone, well they just created a union, the bastards.....well I can't belive my employees would turn on me. I mean i pay a 10 year capt a whole 54,000 a year!!!! I guess it must be the union's fault, cause im a expert at running this company.

Management will continue to destroy a company, look at the piss poor management at the failures on wall st......look at the piss poor management in the auto industry.

undisputed facts there.......go about your business.

 

[Semore Butts]

What a "dope" B-19.

Translation: Pilots are paid to much now and pay needs to be reduced to increase profits.

Never stated that. The challenge is for you to find the post were I did.

You must be the only person on this board that doesn't get that Diesel was "reading between the lines". (B-19=Ignoramus)

That in itself kinda says something about you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yet another lie.

Come on man... Do you honestly think we don't realize you work for FLOPS??? How stupid do you think we are? You have yet again demonstrated your low opinion of pilots.

In your case, you're really stupid if you think I work for FLOPS.

Where am I demonstrating a low opinion of pilots?

If a union is so damn smart, they should just go out and begin their own unionize airline and all of you can go flock to work at it.

They can't, because they haven't a clue as to how to run one and it is proven every day.

 

[imacdog]

Work for Flops or union-bust for Flops, it's all the same really. They pay you to union-bust. While professional pilots go about their business being productive members of society, you contribute nothing except to attempt to demoralize others. Is this what you really wanted to do when you were growing up? If not, why did you fail so miserably at what you did want to do?

 

[Freedom]

You are right on target...

Yet another lie.

Come on man... Do you honestly think we don't realize you work for FLOPS??? How stupid do you think we are? You have yet again demonstrated your low opinion of pilots.

Not only does Bob19 work at FLOPS, he is a Vice President.

Everyone at FLOPS knows this. Bob19 was hired to bust the Union drive; when he failed, he was directed to correct his failure by preventing us from solidifying to obtain a Contract.

He is still practicing his Union Busting trade, because he most likely knows that once a Contract is obtained by the Pilots, he is out of a job.

The longer he can delay it, the longer he draws his check from Options.

Therefore, I don't blame him for the attempts he makes on this Board. But if he thinks he is fooling us...he truly is the fool.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

In your case, you're really stupid if you think I work for FLOPS.

Where am I demonstrating a low opinion of pilots? By insulting our intelligence. We know who you are. If I am wrong, prove it. Where do you work?

If a union is so damn smart, they should just go out and begin their own unionize airline and all of you can go flock to work at it. Hmmm..... Isn't there an airline where the employees actually own it?

They can't, because they haven't a clue as to how to run one and it is pr oven every day. Like Bill Olsen. The former 1108 president who took on a management position answering only to Richard Santulli? Try again B19. I have a rebuttal for all your generalizations.

I went ahead and ran a spell check for you again. You're welcome.

 

[Diesel]

Oh how really wrong you are. Currently I run 3 different business and a 4th one coming online in January. So I walk in their shoes and I still throw the BS flag when i see it.


So, if the people that work for you simply came in and told you that you are going to increase their pay (thereby increasing your contribution to the goverment also), and force you to give them vacation and create work rules where they get 50% of every day off each month, (or your suppliers doubled their costs) you would just reach into your pocket and just give it to them without questioning them.

You are so full of crap you stink.
Yeah thats what you have to tell yourself to try and justify what you are doing. I make sure that all my employees are compensated very well, that they have excellent benefits and that they feel they are part of the company and have a stake in it going forward. You have done none of that at FLOPS creating such ill-will towards you and your managment idiots that the pilots have said enough is enough. Yet you still don't hear. You blame the union. You shift blame to something other than yourselves. If you looked at NJA as soon as the contract was signed and everyone was pulling the same direction on the rope profits, productivity and moral went through the roof. Yet you stick your head in the sand.


Union busters bust unions.

I'm not a union buster. anymore than you are a legitimate small business owner.

Whatever you need to tell yourself. But those that know me can vouch that I tell no lies.

 

[RNObased]

If you work for a union carrier, then you have either gone through union turmoil yourself or have put others through that turmoil.

Non-union companies can't enjoy that feeling that you appear to consider normal.

I'm not the one spreading hate, I'm non-union.

Blah, blah, blah....... B19 is awesome all of the rest of us suck. Blah, blah, blah....Unions suck and NJA is doomed, because we actually make a decent living. Blah, blah, blah....Only the great company that B19 works for will be left standing thanks to his awesome abilities at god knows what.

Did I miss something???? Maybe a couple more blah, blahs. Same old crap B19 different subject. Stick to talking about something you know and leave your hate for them. Done with you for a long time.

 

[realityman]

Yeesh!! Put B19 on ignore! Really, he'll get tired of talking to himself eventually.

First, I know Diesel and he is a legitimate business owner. I guess B19 is proven wrong yet again.

Second, I've been with NJA for almost 12 years now. We had some real turmoil for less than a year. And the returns on it were well worth it. But the vast majority of my existence here has been peaceful. We have nearly 3000 pilots here, and I'd be willing to bet that less than 5% are truly unhappy because of our union. So much for B19's theory that unions create turmoil or make its members unhappy.

Finally, the union actually REDUCES uncertainty and turmoil. When I first started here, our union was admittedly very weak. As a result, if we needed answers, about anything, from the company we simply wouldn't get them. Now, with a strong union, information flows smoothly and quickly to the union members. Want to know why something is happening the way it is in training? Just ask the appropriate union comittee and you'll get an answer quickly. This reduces turmoil.

Please just ignore B19. He continues to display that he knows NOTHING about how our union works.

Want to know how most in management operate? Just watch the news these days and see how many executives are still walking away with HUGE bonuses while the average worker suffers. It should be criminal that AIG is going to pay out $500 million in executive bonuses while accepting billions in taxpayer money to bail them out. But that's management thinking for you.