NJA size

[gunfyter]

Hmmm. Good info, but I suspect management knows the comparative costs. Interesting thoughts, though.

I'd love to see the numbers but I don't think it could be that significant.

I'd rather take a pay cut than trade scope. But I am not doing that either. I am just saying... Scope is our jobs.

 

[rajflyboy]

I'd say not a chance.. Outta of the throngs of "leaders" I've seen come and go over the last decade. Hansell is by far the worst leader. The guy is basically non-exhistant.


Sokol was probably a better leader than Hansell, but Sokol was definitely the most arrogant and detrimental to an operation. He had no clue what to do with a high end luxury business utilizing airplanes as the product.

It's sad that the two worst executives I've ever seen in aviation had to happen to NJA back to back. They made executives at regionals actually look pretty good!!

IMO Hansell will be done shortly. (by shortly I hope within 1-1.5 years. If not sooner)

Naa

Attorney man is around for the long haul. He would have already been gone if that was the plan. He is toting the Sokol line.

 

[Hogprint]

I'd love to see the numbers but I don't think it could be that significant.

I'd rather take a pay cut than trade scope. But I am not doing that either. I am just saying... Scope is our jobs.

I'd rather have a pay freeze and not trade scope...if it came to that...

I hear what you're saying though.

 

[jtf]

I think he is around as long as he can continue to squeeze money/ and/ or concessions from the union contact without the troops rallying to stop him. Every time a case goes to arbitration there is a good chance we will lose a part of what we fought for before since the arbitrator can split the difference. All Hansell has to do is continue to break the contact to take little pieces here and there. He will only stop when we stop him. I'm doing my part. Bring your fine toothed comb to go over your airplanes with. Don't fly tired. Follow your brief exactly without offering any help when you see the train wreck coming. If we all do these things WB will notice and Hansell will no longer be a usefull tool. Maybe then WB will decide to bring in a leader to move forward once there is nothing left to squeeze out.

 

[G4dude]

Given your willingness and desire to sell me out, and damage my family further, I highly doubt we'll be having many "good" conversations.

I'm so ashamed. How could I be so callous and cold and mean?

 

[G4dude]

I think he is around as long as he can continue to squeeze money/ and/ or concessions from the union contact without the troops rallying to stop him. Every time a case goes to arbitration there is a good chance we will lose a part of what we fought for before since the arbitrator can split the difference. All Hansell has to do is continue to break the contact to take little pieces here and there. He will only stop when we stop him. I'm doing my part. Bring your fine toothed comb to go over your airplanes with. Don't fly tired. Follow your brief exactly without offering any help when you see the train wreck coming. If we all do these things WB will notice and Hansell will no longer be a usefull tool. Maybe then WB will decide to bring in a leader to move forward once there is nothing left to squeeze out.

Me and my colleagues at the former NJI will fight you tooth and nail if you try this nonsense, especially during these precarious economic times. That is a promise. We will fly overtime, volunteer to help out the company, and do whatever we can to minimize the damage. Enough of this nonsense. If you don't like your job, quit.

 

[G4dude]

I'd love to see the numbers but I don't think it could be that significant.

I'd rather take a pay cut than trade scope. But I am not doing that either. I am just saying... Scope is our jobs.

This scope thing must be a bigger issue than I thought. Aren't we just discussing a few more days available in a busy quarter to broker out trips?

 

[imacdog]

It's much more than that.

 

[Hogprint]

That "scope thing" is the glue that holds the whole shebang together. Without it you have a stack of paper that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Just ask the old timers who worked under the '97 contract. You have a few in the G fleet.

 

[NJAowner]

Who will notice -- the owners

If we all do these things WB will notice

and so will the owners.

FYI -- I know morale is down. Management is mostly responsible for this. But owners are noticing the lack of morale and at the end of the day, no longer care as much as they used to nor do they care who is to blame. Owners will continue to leave for other providers and this is not in the long term best interest of NJ pilots nor management. But at the end of the day, when business is gone, does it really matter who is to blame??

 

[imacdog]

If the owners take notice and leave, then WB will really take notice and actually make change happen. If he doesn't then the company isn't worth saving anyway. The pilots can only do so much.

 

[OPECJet]

Me and my colleagues at the former NJI will fight you tooth and nail if you try this nonsense, especially during these precarious economic times. That is a promise. We will fly overtime, volunteer to help out the company, and do whatever we can to minimize the damage. Enough of this nonsense. If you don't like your job, quit.

I actually don't see you, or any of your "colleagues" as a threat. It takes a spine to walk to an airplane....

 

[NJAowner]

WB gives him management team much discretion and to use aviation lingo, a very long runway. By the time he pulls the plug again (since he already pulled it once), it may very well be too late. It goes back to Marketing 101: it is much easier to retain a customer than gain a new one. And i will add to it -- especially since it is now almost a zero sum gain -- very new significant private aviation customers are coming along.

 

[BentOver]

Owner-- I understand what you are saying.. But I think it is important to remember, pilots--especially pilots at NJA who have been the bastard children of other airlines who's managment teams screwed up-- have and will take a stand and from what I can gather, most have had enough with threats and such..

They don't want to have the place burn down. But for the most part, if it comes to letting the place die VS. keeping respectable work rules in place and having the QOL we(they) deserve. I think many are willing to let the chips fall where they may. NJA is(was) a great job. But there are other jobs, other careers and the pilots of NJA deserve better than to have some two bit con-man ruin the company and then let some lawyers son screw it up even more.

Managment has made their bed, they can sleep in it. It's time for management to sh!t or get off the pot.

When the 2nd most junior pilot on the active list writes an elloquent e-mail saying he's not afraid of a layoff. He will not vote for any erosion of our QOL.. That should tell management that maybe their barking up the wrong tree. It's time for them to figure out a strategy that doesn't include threatening the pilot group every 6 months.

 

[G4dude]

Owner-- I understand what you are saying.. But I think it is important to remember, pilots--especially pilots at NJA who have been the bastard children of other airlines who's managment teams screwed up-- have and will take a stand and from what I can gather, most have had enough with threats and such..

They don't want to have the place burn down. But for the most part, if it comes to letting the place die VS. keeping respectable work rules in place and having the QOL we(they) deserve. I think many are willing to let the chips fall where they may. NJA is(was) a great job. But there are other jobs, other careers and the pilots of NJA deserve better than to have some two bit con-man ruin the company and then let some lawyers son screw it up even more.

Managment has made their bed, they can sleep in it. It's time for management to sh!t or get off the pot.

When the 2nd most junior pilot on the active list writes an elloquent e-mail saying he's not afraid of a layoff. He will not vote for any erosion of our QOL.. That should tell management that maybe their barking up the wrong tree. It's time for them to figure out a strategy that doesn't include threatening the pilot group every 6 months.

What a shame. We have one of the best flying jobs in the world, and y'all are going to screw it up. Every time I think I have seen the depths of Union Stupidity Stampeding, something like this gets started.

 

[G4dude]

If you crash the company, we have NOWHERE to go in this economy.

 

[jtf]

I will be in the first wave out the back door. I will fight for what the contract promises and do what I have to do to enforce it. I will put my comb away and help with the poor scheduling when management stops attacking my contract. I can accept furlough if it is due to the shrinking overall- not shifting my work within the company umbrella. Unfortunately the RLA that we work under doesn't really protect the contract and it takes tougher action to enforce. I can accept the occasional bone head moves by management that cause some grievances, but there are not just some anymore. Management is actively attacking the contract and simply taking concessions through the arbitration process. I will do my best to not let this happen. More and more eyes are opening and coming to the same conclusion. Good luck covering all the lowly Cessnas and Hawkers with the big Gulfsteams. I guess I'm willing to test the market and would rather take my chances than accept a weakened contact. All management has to do to change my actions is live within the contract. Is that really asking too much?

 

[BORG]

This scope thing must be a bigger issue than I thought. Aren't we just discussing a few more days available in a busy quarter to broker out trips?

If you really don't understand how big an issue scope is, I implore you to educate yourself. Those of us with primarily corporate backgrounds haven't necessarily been exposed to the issue as much as those at the airlines, however we should learn from the airlines' mistakes.

I was forced to learn about scope the hard way when I, and EVERY other pilot at Midwest Airlines, were replaced by Republic pilots who flew jets painted in our colors, with our name (they even dropped the "Connection" from Midwest Connection) on our routes, with our passengers (booked through Midwest reservations agents and boarded through Midwest gates) while we were furloughed because we refused to take 40-80% pay cuts and because we had a weak scope clause.

Just like the current NJA situation it started small, in our case with Republic providing feeder services, then code share. It wasn't long before they were flying on routes that were previously served by our B717s and MD80s in their own 99 seat E190s for a fraction of the pay we were making. Midwest management had no reason to negotiate reasonable pay rates with the Midwest pilot group because they had a replacement group lined up that was willing to do it for a much lower rate. While, like you, I am in favor of the free market ideas that allowed this to happen, I believe we need to protect what we've worked hard to get lest we replicate the race to the bottom that the airlines are running.

Is this what they have in mind for NJA/EJM? I don't know, but I don't think we can afford to give the company the wiggle room to even allow the possibility of this. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me..."

 

[hockeypilot44]

Delta and United both accepted dramatically lower pay in order to survive. There are many more examples, Fischman.

The Delta and United pilots accepted concessions to avoid bankruptcy. ALPA convinced the pilot groups that if the companies filed for bankruptcy, their pensions would be destroyed. The companies filed for bankruptcy anyway. In the long run, those concessions were huge mistakes.

 

[gunfyter]

Nice post Borg.