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[fischman]

I enjoy a challenge. So far, I haven't seen one.

 

[LAZYB]

It must be exhausting to hear the views of someone with whom you disagree. Unless you are a grownup, you IGNORE and stick your fingers in your ears. Too bad, I enjoy the conversations.

I thought that Golden Goose blog was keepin ya busy. :smash:

 

[Semore Butts]

Oh G4 Nooooooooo....... Learn the contract dude!

Geez G4, I don't know where to start? Holy Smokes!


Me and my colleagues at the former NJI will fight you tooth and nail if you try this nonsense, especially during these precarious economic times. That is a promise. We will fly overtime, volunteer to help out the company, and do whatever we can to minimize the damage. Enough of this nonsense. If you don't like your job, quit.

So you will bend rest and maintenance rules to help out the company? Try what nonsense? If you are fatigued, you shouldn't be flying. If it's broke, it's broke, period.
(Let me add, I hate when my airplane breaks! It adds alot of stress and basically f$%ks up my day)

There is no doubt that former NJI pilots would overall be willng to fight for the company until the last NJA pilot is gone.

This scope thing must be a bigger issue than I thought. Aren't we just discussing a few more days available in a busy quarter to broker out trips?

That few more days will be at the cost of however many jobs. If you wanna give in on scope, thats your call. But, don't think you ought to learn what the hell it is before you capitulate to it?

(Oh, and when the furloughs come? There will be 20+ "G" CPT's walking the streets before me, don't know how many FO's.)

What a shame. We have one of the best flying jobs in the world, and y'all are going to screw it up. Every time I think I have seen the depths of Union Stupidity Stampeding, something like this gets started.

I think y'all are going to screw it up. Y'all got sold out by this management team you hail so much into a union (Clue #1) Y'all retained or gained your pay and basing (Clue#2) Y'all got upgraded to CPT way ahead of junior NJA guys (Clue #3) Y'all are prently protected by the scope language (Clue #4)

If the plan is indeed to move things to EJM and reduce our aircraft, and go to Globals, you have a buttload of Junior "G" CPTS and FO's that are gonna be in trouble. (No FA to clean the back of that 2 pilot aircraft in your new fleet either)

I'm sorry you didn't get the cards dealt that you wanted, I didn't either. The more untied we get as a group, the faster we will get management and the union pushing in the same direction.

Sorry about the long post, Take care, Semore

 

[G4dude]

Geez G4, I don't know where to start? Holy Smokes!


Me and my colleagues at the former NJI will fight you tooth and nail if you try this nonsense, especially during these precarious economic times. That is a promise. We will fly overtime, volunteer to help out the company, and do whatever we can to minimize the damage. Enough of this nonsense. If you don't like your job, quit.

So you will bend rest and maintenance rules to help out the company? Try what nonsense? If you are fatigued, you shouldn't be flying. If it's broke, it's broke, period.
(Let me add, I hate when my airplane breaks! It adds alot of stress and basically f$%ks up my day)

There is no doubt that former NJI pilots would overall be willng to fight for the company until the last NJA pilot is gone.

This scope thing must be a bigger issue than I thought. Aren't we just discussing a few more days available in a busy quarter to broker out trips?

That few more days will be at the cost of however many jobs. If you wanna give in on scope, thats your call. But, don't think you ought to learn what the hell it is before you capitulate to it?

(Oh, and when the furloughs come? There will be 20+ "G" CPT's walking the streets before me, don't know how many FO's.)

What a shame. We have one of the best flying jobs in the world, and y'all are going to screw it up. Every time I think I have seen the depths of Union Stupidity Stampeding, something like this gets started.

I think y'all are going to screw it up. Y'all got sold out by this management team you hail so much into a union (Clue #1) Y'all retained or gained your pay and basing (Clue#2) Y'all got upgraded to CPT way ahead of junior NJA guys (Clue #3) Y'all are prently protected by the scope language (Clue #4)

If the plan is indeed to move things to EJM and reduce our aircraft, and go to Globals, you have a buttload of Junior "G" CPTS and FO's that are gonna be in trouble. (No FA to clean the back of that 2 pilot aircraft in your new fleet either)

I'm sorry you didn't get the cards dealt that you wanted, I didn't either. The more untied we get as a group, the faster we will get management and the union pushing in the same direction.

Sorry about the long post, Take care, Semore

Man, I would REALLY miss the FAs. They feed and water us, organize our social lives on the road, smell good (the ladies, anyway), and supply a girlish giggle (ladies) every now and then which livens up a 14 hour flight over the Pacific immeasurably! Regarding the Union, so far I have no complaints personally. I am just worried what they might do, that they might go too far, in the economic hard times I think are coming soon. Italy has started to crumble now, and the Italians have the third largest economy in Europe and are saddled with a MASSIVE welfare state.

 

[CA1900]

G4, this union has a history of working with the company to find mutually agreeable solutions to problems. That's what the 2007 IBB contract was all about, and gave the company all kinds of flexibility that the 2005 contract lacked. That's what the Voluntary Measures were all about, which saved millions for the company and averted the furlough until Sokol showed up with his hatchet.

The union is not the problem here. I hope you'll realize that soon.

 

[G4dude]

G4, this union has a history of working with the company to find mutually agreeable solutions to problems. That's what the 2007 IBB contract was all about, and gave the company all kinds of flexibility that the 2005 contract lacked. That's what the Voluntary Measures were all about, which saved millions for the company and averted the furlough until Sokol showed up with his hatchet.

The union is not the problem here. I hope you'll realize that soon.

I hope you are right. I tend to get spooked by the radicals, and forget that most of the union members are normal reasonable people. And I, of course, am ABSOLUTELY normal and reasonable.

 

[rajflyboy]

G4, this union has a history of working with the company to find mutually agreeable solutions to problems. That's what the 2007 IBB contract was all about, and gave the company all kinds of flexibility that the 2005 contract lacked. That's what the Voluntary Measures were all about, which saved millions for the company and averted the furlough until Sokol showed up with his hatchet.

The union is not the problem here. I hope you'll realize that soon.

IBB caused the furlough. Wake up

 

[G4dude]

IBB caused the furlough. Wake up

I was thinking the economy caused the furlough.

 

[BentOver]

I was thinking the economy caused the furlough.

IMO, IBB allowed the company more efficiency. Which, of course, eliminates the need for more and more pilots. did BB cause the furlough? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The economy and Madoff were the cause. If the economy never tanked there would never had been furloughs and NJA would have still been growing even today.

What IBB did was make the job tolerable for the long term SIC's. Which, even today, is hugebecause the duration of being an SIC is only getting longer.

Coming from a long term SIC, if it wasn't for IBB, the NJA SIC's would have been in big trouble today financially.

 

[rajflyboy]

IMO, IBB allowed the company more efficiency. Which, of course, eliminates the need for more and more pilots. did BB cause the furlough? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The economy and Madoff were the cause. If the economy never tanked there would never had been furloughs and NJA would have still been growing even today.

What IBB did was make the job tolerable for the long term SIC's. Which, even today, is hugebecause the duration of being an SIC is only getting longer.

Coming from a long term SIC, if it wasn't for IBB, the NJA SIC's would have been in big trouble today financially.

Patience. None was displayed for IBB. So now here we are. You get what you get because YOU voted for the ********************.

 

[BentOver]

Patience. None was displayed for IBB. So now here we are. You get what you get because YOU voted for the ********************.

Let me put it in basic terms...I am furloughed, I voted for IBB and I am still happy with my decision to vote yes. And would do it again.

The gains for the SIC's in terms of QOL (basing) and pay (a livable wage right from the get go) far exceed any gripes a Captain such as yourself had with the details you didn't like. Make no mistake, IBB was not meant for the PIC's, it was a tool aimed at the SIC's. Sorry if you don't like the fact the PIC's were generally shorted vs. the SIC's on this one. I feel no remorse because generally EVERY contract in recent history has benefitted the PIC's while the SIC's get a simple "don't worry you'll upgrade soon" speech.

As a furloughed SIC, I would not care about returning IF the old CBA were still in effect. Nor would I probably have stayed for the length that I did. The pay sucked and the basing was a serious issue. Especially considering the pre-'05 guys were getting to live at home while the rest were driving hours to get to a base.

Finally, your vote lost. Sorry. You are in the minority...........(still somehow you're under the dillusion that everyone is now unhappy they voted yes. That is simply not the case. I have not heard of one single pilot that wishes they had voted differently. So your arguement that we are where we are and we have to live with it, holds no merit )




What baffles many is that you think that a better deal could have been had in 2010 or later.(date the '05 CBA became amendable.)

 

[fischman]

You are beating a dead horse. You'll NEVER be able to convince him that IBB was the right choice, just like you'll never be able to convince G4 that NJASAP is a GOOD THING, just like you'll never be able to convince me that George Bush was a good President.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[BentOver]

You are beating a dead horse. You'll NEVER be able to convince him that IBB was the right choice, just like you'll never be able to convince G4 that NJASAP is a GOOD THING, just like you'll never be able to convince me that George Bush was a good President.

Ain't gonna happen.

That's good..Never thought Bush was a good President......!!

Although he probably would be a fun dude to drink a beer with on his ranch??

 

[B747Flyer]

G4, this union has a history of working with the company to find mutually agreeable solutions to problems.

I'm not so sure I get that impression when I read ML's rants on the 411...

 

[rajflyboy]

My entire point with IBB is this:

Don't screw up the next time you read a contract and vote on it. Think before you act.

 

[BentOver]

My entire point with IBB is this:

Don't screw up the next time you read a contract and vote on it. Think before you act.

Like what was said earlier..you have to provide details of what you don't like. Otherwise your arguement has no merit. It's easy to say it's a POS. But you have to explain what parts you think are POS. I elaborated what was important to many post-'05 supporters of IBB. You have never provided what you don't like about IBB.

Homebasing and a nearly doubling SIC pay meant something. What exactly don't you like, that way, the next time something like this comes up we can make informed decisions.

 

[G4dude]

I'm not so sure I get that impression when I read ML's rants on the 411...

Me neither.

 

[G4dude]

You are beating a dead horse. You'll NEVER be able to convince him that IBB was the right choice, just like you'll never be able to convince G4 that NJASAP is a GOOD THING, just like you'll never be able to convince me that George Bush was a good President.

Ain't gonna happen.

I liked Bush's foreign policy. I just wish he had vetoed all those bloated spending bills. As for NJASAP, it could be worse, a lot worse. It seems to be a relatively well behaved union. So we have that going for us, which is good.

 

[fischman]

I liked Bush's foreign policy. I just wish he had vetoed all those bloated spending bills. As for NJASAP, it could be worse, a lot worse. It seems to be a relatively well behaved union. So we have that going for us, which is good.

I'm glad you feel that way.

As a former ALPA member, I can tell you that i feel NJASAP is the smartest union I have ever been involved with. We are reasonable, but demand strict compliance with the CBA.

If you get involved, stay informed, and just read the private boards, I think you'll feel better about us.

 

[rajflyboy]

so

We talked about the G Wiz merger which hasn't worked so far. Now lets hit another topic about IBB that we gave away. Company Credit card and concur. Another big giveaway. We earned much more with our own credit cards and unfortunately we have the same liabilities with the company card that we have with our own card.

 

[G4dude]

so

We talked about the G Wiz merger which hasn't worked so far. Now lets hit another topic about IBB that we gave away. Company Credit card and concur. Another big giveaway. We earned much more with our own credit cards and unfortunately we have the same liabilities with the company card that we have with our own card.

I AM curious about the credit card thing. Why did the company not want to let us use our own cards?

 

[Pervis]

I AM curious about the credit card thing. Why did the company not want to let us use our own cards?

Only a guess, but when we had our own, company was required to pay us within a much tighter time frame than they have to pay the corporate card. Many millions stays on the books for considerably longer. All an accounting gimmick.

I do admit I averaged about 15k points monthly on my own Hilton AMEX, while I have yet to each 100k in over 3 years on the corporate card. Not to mention the reduction in bennies with AMEX-vs-GE.

 

[rajflyboy]

Only a guess, but when we had our own, company was required to pay us within a much tighter time frame than they have to pay the corporate card. Many millions stays on the books for considerably longer. All an accounting gimmick.

I do admit I averaged about 15k points monthly on my own Hilton AMEX, while I have yet to each 100k in over 3 years on the corporate card. Not to mention the reduction in bennies with AMEX-vs-GE.

Exactly

and many people think that the holder of this card is not liable for the bill at the end of the day

 

[Pervis]

You got that right Raj. Look at the terms and it clearly states that regardless of the agreement between you and your company, you're ultimately responsible. That was one of the biggest misconceptions when we were "sold" the card.

 

[rajflyboy]

You got that right Raj. Look at the terms and it clearly states that regardless of the agreement between you and your company, you're ultimately responsible. That was one of the biggest misconceptions when we were "sold" the card.

Too many pilots don't understand this simple fact.

 

[G4dude]

Too many pilots don't understand this simple fact.

Hmmmm

 

[OPECJet]

Only a guess, but when we had our own, company was required to pay us within a much tighter time frame than they have to pay the corporate card. Many millions stays on the books for considerably longer. All an accounting gimmick.

I do admit I averaged about 15k points monthly on my own Hilton AMEX, while I have yet to each 100k in over 3 years on the corporate card. Not to mention the reduction in bennies with AMEX-vs-GE.

Glad to see someone else saying what I got called out for on the union board when it was a hot topic.

 

[imacdog]

Yeah it was a huge loss to give up all those hotel points on our own cards, it basically wiped out any savings from having guaranteed no-premium health coverage that was not in the 2005 contract. Oh wait, no it didn't.

 

[NJAowner]

Cards

FWIW -- for a company with a large number of cards outstanding to employees, the biggest advantage of a company card is consolidated reporting in that the data available to the company on its spending can help the company analyze its spending patterns. This can not easily be done with employee cards. Also, there can be "behind the scenes" discount negotiated with the card issuer based upon that data. I know the pilots viewed it as a benefit, btu very few companies allow employees to keep their points.

 

[rajflyboy]

Should I continue on with the failures of IBB ?

Some of you need to quit being led by the sheep when you vote. Pay attention to what you are voting for. Don't vote yes unless all the facts add up to something that makes sense.