Nja/nji

[CE750Driver]

You guys might fly a trip to China, what... once a year? We go once a week.

Contrary to popular opinion, operating throughout the far corners of the globe doesn't include TEB and PBI. We have crew planners that work 5 days a week doing nothing but organizing trips throughout the world.

I look forward to working with NJA pilots, and all of you (those that come over) can look forward t working with our NOC... Totally different level of interaction than what you have in CMH.

You may wanna check where the BBJ's go in a typical week. Your once a year to China statement is way off base.

 

[Grizz]

Because the union will still be getting the dues from them, only, the union does not have too, and will not defend any of theses guys if something should happen. These pilots will also not be eligible for any union benefits, like medical, or retirement, that is in the works. Sounds sad too me.

Incorrect. Agency fee payers are afforded full protection in collective bargaining and representation. That's what they pay the fee for.

What they don't have access to is membership rights such as voting on contracts or officers, running for office, access to member's only areas such as the message board and and future member's only benefits we might create.

 

[gunfyter]

Don't worry ... It will be Fair.

and everybody will be happy....

 

[gutshotdraw]

It's called SIFA. That's the system we have in place for extended international duty assignments.

As for you comments about the pay scale and overtime rates...

I am one of the guys here that totally agrees with the way the virtual seniority list is set up. I never quite agreed with the guys who want to staple you guys to the bottom. Believe me, there are quite a few here that would like to see that happen. I'm not one of them. For years, we've been screaming that NJA and NJI are one in the same. If that's the case, I can't see forcing any NJI pilot to eat ******************** at the bottom of the seniority list.

That being said, watch the way you come across when you're talking about how you're going to get paid.

Dude, what are talking about? Did you actually read the post? I'm saying pay rates, benefits, overtime etc. will be the SAME.

The reality is... you're no better than any of us here right now regardless of what kind of airplane you're in.

Like I said, did you read the post? I've never said we're any better, or worse, than any pilot group. My point is, and always has been, that the G-IV/V operation DOES have some differences that will be addressed in a transition agreement. No better, no worse, just different.

If/when NJA and NJI merge, there will be one payscale and one set of rules. You guys over there that believe you deserve some sort of special treatment are in for a HUGE surprise.

None of the people I know think we're "something special" or deserve special treatment. In fact, a growing number are looking forward to being covered by the contract because they actually believe you are treated better in some respects and the contract will even the playing field. Certain recent events have convinced more than a few folks that some of the protections offered by the contract would be a good idea.

I've made it a point to meet as many NJI crews as possible over the past year. 100% of them have been great. They're all open to a great future as one company and I think that's great. Somewhere, however, there's a handful of guys who think they're better than us simply because they sport a cool looking Gulfstream polo shirt. That's simply not going to go over well when they come strutting in to CMH for company indoc training. Just keep that in mind.

We won't be coming to CMH for company indoc since NJI will continue to operate as a separate company, with a separate operations center, a separate operating certificate, and yes, some different company policies. The only difference after the "merger" is that the entire pilot group will be represented by NJASAP and the collective bargaining agreement (and applicable LOA's).

As with all things, time will tell.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Quote None of the people I know think we're "something special" or deserve special treatment. In fact, a growing number are looking forward to being covered by the contract because they actually believe you are treated better in some respects and the contract will even the playing field. Certain recent events have convinced more than a few folks that some of the protections offered by the contract would be a good idea.

My feel on this one, from the line, is that if there were a vote for/against NJASAP representing the NJI pilots in the near future we would easily be over 51% as a DIRECT result of "certain recent events" ! That said I suspect Okatie knows the merge is inevitable and is acting accordingly.

 

[Semore Butts]

Watch out for the upcoming lecture Fly!

Bafoon 19 will be here in a minute to tell you how you are screwing up.

Not that he knows crap about it, but that won't stop him.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

You may wanna check where the BBJ's go in a typical week. Your once a year to China statement is way off base.

Look, Im not trying to start an argument. We have 2 BBJs? Sure they go all over the world. Whats the ratio of BBJ pilots to the rest of the NJA pilots? .005%?

All NJI pilots (every last one of us) span the globe on a weekly basis. Thats how NJI/NJA differ. You can end up doing 22 hours of airlining just to get home here. We fly aircraft that can stay aloft for 15 hours... Get the difference now? Thats all Im saying.

 

[imacdog]

We understand what you're saying dude. Point being though, we still have contractual language that covers this type of flying.

 

[RTRHD]

You can end up doing 22 hours of airlining just to get home here.

The day that never ended for me was a 12hr GV flight from Gold Coast Australia- Bangalore India crew swap, run to the terminal and airline threw Heathrow to ORD then to IAH. That was 25hrs flight time of just air lining. I forget why we needed to get back so bad. :bawling:

 

[gutshotdraw]

B

You IN-Sane bro. Homey don't play that. At least, until we start racking hourly overtime for those marathon days...:beer:

 

[ozpilot]

The day that never ended for me was a 12hr GV flight from Gold Coast Australia- Bangalore India crew swap, run to the terminal and airline threw Heathrow to ORD then to IAH. That was 25hrs flight time of just air lining. I forget why we needed to get back so bad. :bawling:

B
At least, until we start racking hourly overtime for those marathon days...:beer:

Hmm ... hourly overtime kicks in at 12 ... 12+25=37 hours. 37-12=25 hours of o/t @ around $80 per hour for a 5 year captain. If the merger happens, I think the NJI guys and girls are going to like that part of the contract ...

FWIW - my longest airline, in a previous life, was Beijing to Sydney, 8 hours in Sydney, airline to Heathrow, ground to Gatwick, airline to Stockholm. Almost 48 hours ...

 

[RTRHD]

B

You IN-Sane bro. Homey don't play that. At least, until we start racking hourly overtime for those marathon days...:beer:

I know it was kidda crazy,but it had to get done so lets just do it. Besides there are some benefits to traveling out of duty. :beer: RIGHT?

 

[RTRHD]

37-12=25 hours of o/t @ around $80 per hour for a 5 year captain. If the merger happens, I think the NJI guys and girls are going to like that part of the contract ...

I bet that part of it does not happen. A different work rules scenario. But we will see.

 

[G200_PILOT]

We won't be coming to CMH for company indoc since NJI will continue to operate as a separate company, with a separate operations center, a separate operating certificate, and yes, some different company policies. The only difference after the "merger" is that the entire pilot group will be represented by NJASAP and the collective bargaining agreement (and applicable LOA's)./QUOTE]


OK, can you please tell me where you're getting your information from? I know you're a smart guy. You passed a Gulfstream type ride so you have to have SOME brains! Nonetheless, I don't quite think you know what "single carrier" means. If you think the only thing that will change is that you will now be part of a Union, you're in for a rude awakening. No, I don't know how the specifics will pan out but I can tell you that IF the two entities were to join in recognition of a "single carrier", then we won't be operating as two separate companies. Please keep that in mind while you're typing away trying to explain to me how it's going to be.

 

[imacdog]

I bet that part of it does not happen. A different work rules scenario. But we will see.

Why would it not happen? Our pilots doing this type of duty are in fact making this overtime.

 

[G200_PILOT]

The day that never ended for me was a 12hr GV flight from Gold Coast Australia- Bangalore India crew swap, run to the terminal and airline threw Heathrow to ORD then to IAH. That was 25hrs flight time of just air lining. I forget why we needed to get back so bad. :bawling:

No, hang on. These guys are right. That would NEVER happen here at NJA. The day would have been over CONTRACTUALLY at the end of your 12 hour G-V flight. After a mandatory 10 hours of rest, they then would have had another 14 hours to get me as far as they could. Regardless of how much airlining there is, we don't work for free.

We don't:

Work for free before 8 am on out first day.

Work for free after the 9th hour of duty on our first day if we started before 8 am.

Work for free after the 12th hour of duty after the first day.

Work for free after the midnight point on our last scheduled day.

These rules apply to ALL of our airplanes.

 

[RTRHD]

Why would it not happen? Our pilots doing this type of duty are in fact making this overtime.

I am not saying they are not getting the OT, I am sure they our. But there are several benefits in having another operating certificate. There are ways to make both sides happy without doing single carrier. This is just my hypothesis. (had to use spell check on that one) But I bet we will have different operating rules, again I know nothing just typing. :cartman:

 

[RTRHD]

No, hang on. These guys are right. That would NEVER happen here at NJA. The day would have been over CONTRACTUALLY at the end of your 12 hour G-V flight. After a mandatory 10 hours of rest, they then would have had another 14 hours to get me as far as they could. Regardless of how much airlining there is, we don't work for free.

We don't:

Work for free before 8 am on out first day.

Work for free after the 9th hour of duty on our first day if we started before 8 am.

Work for free after the 12th hour of duty after the first day.

Work for free after the midnight point on our last scheduled day.

These rules apply to ALL of our airplanes.

You just made my point!!!!!

 

[G200_PILOT]

RTRHD, my point is that a duty day like the one you described will never happen here once the two sides join. I'm not sure what part of this you're not getting but "single carrier" is coming and it's probably coming faster than you think. Your theory of the two sides joining, but not, is wrong. Single carrier means just that.

I'm sorry to be this blunt about it but the bottom line is NJI will no longer exist after the two sides join. This isn't a deal where NJI has a choice on what rules they get to keep and which ones they don't want. Look up our current CBA and those will be the rules that YOU'LL be working under in the near future. Sorry to come across this way but you're looking at this integration totally wrong.

 

[Ultra Grump]

RTRHD, my point is that a duty day like the one you described will never happen here once the two sides join.

Actually, I'm sure an A-Teamer would have no problem getting a duty day like he described. All he would have to do is volunteer to go past 14 hrs. As long as he's not operating an aircraft, he would still get the OT. I can foresee a LOT of that happening with the "I" guys after the integration.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Actually, I'm sure an A-Teamer would have no problem getting a duty day like he described. All he would have to do is volunteer to go past 14 hrs. As long as he's not operating an aircraft, he would still get the OT. I can foresee a LOT of that happening with the "I" guys after the integration.

Well now we're talking about a whole different issue. The money issue would depend on where you are in your tour. Staying on the clock to get to where they need you on day 2 of 7 is totally different than them trying to get you home on day 6 of 7 after realizing that they can't do it in two 14 hour duty days. Sounds like an after midnight is the better outcome in that case than a few extra hours past 14.

 

[RTRHD]

That long day was trying to get home. We all were in agreement to just keep going. But we will see what plays out.

 

[G200_PILOT]

That long day was trying to get home. We all were in agreement to just keep going. But we will see what plays out.

The "rules" you're currently working under now are much different than ours. So aren't your schedules. I'm aware of how they can shift your schedules. I hope you're aware of the fact that they can't do that with us. If you're on the 7&7 schedule then day 7 is your last day. Period. The company knows they have to get you home by midnight or 14 hours on your last day. They also know that "special deals" are not allowed and watched carefully. In "special deals" I mean that they can't call you up and force you to work beyond the 14 hour mark. They also can't pressure you into feeling like you're letting them down if you stand your ground. I can tell you from personal experience that if you reach the 14 hour mark on your last day, they'll book you a hotel room wherever you are and they'll get you home the next day.

 

[CE750Driver]

We understand what you're saying dude. Point being though, we still have contractual language that covers this type of flying.

Bingo. See the difference now Wolf?

 

[IDEtoNJA]

No, hang on. These guys are right. That would NEVER happen here at NJA. The day would have been over CONTRACTUALLY at the end of your 12 hour G-V flight. After a mandatory 10 hours of rest, they then would have had another 14 hours to get me as far as they could. Regardless of how much airlining there is, we don't work for free.

These rules apply to ALL of our airplanes.

G200_PILOT,

Under the provisions of the current NJA CBA the Company could and probably would require you to exceed any and all duty time limitation in case the duty period in order to accommodate extended international travel duty only!

Now, one would receive overtime compensation for any and all duty hours beyond 12, as well as, "compensatory" rest on the back-end.

IDEtoNJA

 

[IDEtoNJA]

We won't be coming to CMH for company indoc since NJI will continue to operate as a separate company, with a separate operations center, a separate operating certificate, and yes, some different company policies. The only difference after the "merger" is that the entire pilot group will be represented by NJASAP and the collective bargaining agreement (and applicable LOA's)./QUOTE]


OK, can you please tell me where you're getting your information from? I know you're a smart guy. You passed a Gulfstream type ride so you have to have SOME brains! Nonetheless, I don't quite think you know what "single carrier" means. If you think the only thing that will change is that you will now be part of a Union, you're in for a rude awakening. No, I don't know how the specifics will pan out but I can tell you that IF the two entities were to join in recognition of a "single carrier", then we won't be operating as two separate companies. Please keep that in mind while you're typing away trying to explain to me how it's going to be.

G200_PILOT,

Technically, NetJets could maintain separate operating certificates and separate operations, and at same time, have NJA/NJI/NJLA recognized as a "Single Transportation System."

Does it really matter under which certificate any of the NetJets aircraft are operated under? This holds true as long as, all NetJets pilots are placed on the same seniority list; and, all NetJets pilots operate under the same CBA. I.e. The Gulfstream pilots could remain on a separate certificate with recurrents conducted away from CMH.

LOA 01-013 currently states that the current CBA and attached LOA's will apply to all pilots on the NetJets seniority list equally. The only concessions LOA 01-013 gives the Company for the Gulfstream operation are: The 15-Day Flex Schedule will not be offered; and, certain amendments to the process of vacancy awards and the application of seat/equipment/program locks.

IDEtoNJA

 

[lookin4better]

Is NJI still hiring?

 

[YankeeEcho]

We won't be coming to CMH for company indoc since NJI will continue to operate as a separate company, with a separate operations center, a separate operating certificate, and yes, some different company policies. The only difference after the "merger" is that the entire pilot group will be represented by NJASAP and the collective bargaining agreement (and applicable LOA's)./QUOTE]


OK, can you please tell me where you're getting your information from? I know you're a smart guy. You passed a Gulfstream type ride so you have to have SOME brains! Nonetheless, I don't quite think you know what "single carrier" means. If you think the only thing that will change is that you will now be part of a Union, you're in for a rude awakening. No, I don't know how the specifics will pan out but I can tell you that IF the two entities were to join in recognition of a "single carrier", then we won't be operating as two separate companies. Please keep that in mind while you're typing away trying to explain to me how it's going to be.

Gutshot is correct . . . G200 is wrong . . . 'single carrier' does not mean that two divisions cannot operate separately. Even IF the NJI pilots are forced into the union, the word 'merger' is still inappropriate - separate operations have been assured by Woodbridge.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Gutshot is correct . . . G200 is wrong . . . 'single carrier' does not mean that two divisions cannot operate separately. Even IF the NJI pilots are forced into the union, the word 'merger' is still inappropriate - separate operations have been assured by Woodbridge.

YankeeEcho,

The operations, as far as, the FAA is concerned may or may not be "merged." I believe that this would be the only correct statement! For goodness sake, are our combined operations one seamless and
"merged" operation in the eyes of the owners? I certainly hope so!

NetJets may or may not keep the operating certificates separate. This would be in the same fashion as the NJLA certificate is being kept separately from the NJA certificate.

Once a "Single Transportation System" is recognized, the pilot groups will be merged onto one seniority list! I believe that the Virtual Seniority List will become the "official" Company Seniority List.

Furthermore, all pilots on the Company Seniority List will be covered, protected, and bound by all the provisions of the 2007 CBA and its associated LOA's. The 2007 CBA will apply whether a pilot flies under the NJA, NJI, NJI(BDL), or NJLA FAA certificates. Therefore, NJI will not be able to utilize Company policies that are not in compliance with the CBA.

Whether NetJets management will or will not approach the union leadership to negotiate amendments to the 2007 CBA as it pertains to the NJI operation is to be seen.

IDEtoNJA

 

[Diesel]

separate operations have been assured by Woodbridge.

Not to bust nuts but I don't believe anything that comes out of woodbridge. Remember when they were saying that NJI would never be union and now guess what thats where its going.

I do chuckle when I see one side talking about the other. There are a lot of misconceptions about what one side does versus the other. There are some great work rules on the NJA side and there are some great flexibility options on the I side. But as a group grows bigger they can't handle all the questions, or schedule shifts, or name recognition that comes from being small and mobile.

I'm personally going to hate to see us go to perdiem. While the A side flies every day we just don't. The planes and trips aren't like that. So having nice dinners and lunches are a way for us to bond. I can count on one hand how many times I went to dinner on the A side. Mainly you just browned bagged it to the hotel room. I side, dinner if you'd like to, room service if you want, and its that simple task that can bring a crew and a company together. I don't think a lot of people get that because pilots are whores and will save that crew meal just to save perdiem.

So for me its the little things. I believe the companies will operate individually with the pilots on the same senority list. NJI is a great marketing device by saying we specialize in long haul international. I treat london and paris now like TEB and LAX. That is a great marketing tool for the company.

Changes are coming. I have the unique perspective to see both trains coming at me.