Nja News

[skiandsurf]

Man you guys make it tough for me to make a decision!

Dont think about the types of plane you will be flying at both carriers, rather the type of flying. At JB, you will have a big "rubberband" on the tail of your plane always pulling back to home base. At NJs, you will be anywhere and everywhere.

Also, think about where both companies (and you) will be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs.

Vacation time.
401k.
Medical/Dental Insurance.

Upgrades at NJs has slowed drastically. Not sure about JB.

Most airlines pinch every penny till their fingers hurt, NJ throws away so much money, it must not be a concern......I only hope that doesnt change.

 

[On Your Six]

Netjets is the industry leader by a wide margin.

JetBlue is in the middle of a very competitive pack that is getting squeezed more and more by newcomers. Watch Mother Delta and CAL put more of a squeeze on JetBlue in the future. NY will be a major competitive battleground.

At the end of the day, I'd rather fly celebrities, sports figures and business tycoons (as long as they don't nag me too much) to interesting destinations (Aspen, Napa, Palm Springs, Martha's Vineyard, Jackson Hole, Hilton Head, Kahalui, etc.) than fly JLo's neighbors from the Bronx to Orlando and Nashville. But that's just me. Sure, the JetBlue guys will never load any bags - but they can't escape the clean-up duties (something both sets of pilots will have in common).

Add to that the ability to take 3-week vacations on 7/7 (one week of vacation between two normal weeks off during a month) if you take that schedule ultimately and that situation can't be beat in my opinion. Take a long term viewpoint.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you choose.

 

[clueless]

Man you guys make it tough for me to make a decision!

You find yourself in a great (but agonizing) position. You have two good options, and you can probably be happy at both companies. One piece of advice I would give you is that once you make your decision, you must make it the right decision. That is, enjoy the good aspects of whichever place you end up, make the most of your opportunity, and don't second guess your choice.

I've done both jobs (not JB and NJ, but major airline and frax). Both have aspects that I like and dislike. I do not fly fractional any longer, so you know which side of the fence I ended up on.

My two cents:

I never liked the 7/7. Hated it at first, came to terms with it as time went on, was joyously happy to leave it behind. I can see that if you came from a 135 job on a 24/7 beeper 31 days a month with no hard days off, then the 7/7 would be nirvana....it's just to freakin' long to be away from home for me. (FWIW, the wife didn't care for it, either...and no, neither one of us was "ready" for me to leave for another tour after 7 days home. We love each other and enjoy spending time together, which is convenient when you're married to one another.)

I did like knowing my schedule months in advance...that is one part of the frax job I miss. However, I have tremendous flexibility currently to get the days off I need or want, so overall my QOL is light years better with respect to home time.

Had vacation last month and I only had to work 5 days...actually worked 7 to make a little extra $, and, really, even I didn't need 25 days off!

I did not commute for the frax job, and I do not commute for the airline. Commuting sux in general, but I really can't see commuting for a 7/7 frax job. No commuting is another one of the huge benefits of the frax job, and if you lose that aspect of the job, you will really never be home. (See "Those who quit NJ" thread for cautionary tales.)

The "variety" of flying is somewhat true, but for me a runway is a runway and a hotel is a hotel. I did fly to some cool places: Aspen, Eagle, St. Maarten, etc. But a huge amount of frax flying is TEB, HPN, PDK, PBI, MDW, SNA, etc. Your first time into Aspen is pretty cool...your fifth time can be just a pain in the butt.

At the end of the day for the frax, I often wondered if I had actually accomplished anything of real value. Sure, I had flown my pax safely to where they wanted to go, but taking a couple of guys and their oversized golf bags to Hilton Head for a $10K boys weekend just wasn't very satisfying.

At the end of the day now, after I have flown 500 or 600 people (regular Joes and Janes, that is) to their destinations, I feel much more as though I have contributed something to the greater good.

Did I take my own advice and make the frax choice the right choice? Yes, while I was there I did. I made a great effort to do my job well and to enjoy the good aspects of it while trying not to focus on the parts of it I didn't care for. I also kept my irons in the fire, and now have my dream job.

Sorry for the rambling post. I hope it is even a little helpful. Good luck with your choice. I hope you make the right decision!

 

[skiandsurf]

I've done both jobs (not JB and NJ, but major airline and frax).

Good info. Curious though, which airline and frax?

 

[johnsonrod]

Working for the wrong frax can contribute to a crap work environment and low morale (that is the case for any aviation job). If it offered 7/7 it could have been either FLOPS or Citationshares because both offer schedules similar to NJA's schedule. Flight Options has imploded over the last few years and I am sure working there could have contributed to a negative attitude. Many FLOPS pilots have left over the last few years as the situation has deteriorated.

From what I have seen, NJA pilots tend to be happier (excluding the domicile situation which will hopefully improve) and they appreciate their great pay/benefits and schedules relative to their peers. Not everyone likes 7/7, but at least the reserve schedule is an option at NJA. Did you see that NJA ad in the WSJ today? NJA has 3500 pilots (this number might include Netjets Europe), hundreds of airplanes, 500+ flight attendants, hundreds of dispatchers, etc. - it is not a small operation and instead it is bigger than many airlines out there...

I think you should focus on the type of flying you want to do and then go with it. If you care about multiple fleet types and a wide variety of flying, NJA might be the better choice (especially since the reserve schedule can compare to a "normal" airline schedule and won't require as many nights away from home as the 7/7). If you want a familiar routine with a more typical schedule and you don't care about variety ("an airport is an airport"), then JetBlue might be for you. Both choices are solid at the end of the day.

Good luck.

 

[Heavy Set]

I just found that Netjets ad in the WSJ that Johnsonrod was referring to - it says:

• 3500 pilots
• 350 flight attendants
• 700 maintenance professionals
• 265 owner service representatives
• 70 schedulers
• 8 meteorologists
• 120 aircraft dispatchers
• 1,700 other professionals

That is a big operation. Not sure how many are related to Netjets USA vs. Netjets Europe vs. Netjets Middle East. Regardless, it is a big company and it is unionized - I have always personally seen that as a positive because you have rights and you are protected - as you know JetBlue pilots are not unionized. Some people hate unions but I am not one of those people (we can all have our own opinions about unions).

Having flown 747s for a 121 operator and now flying corporate, I really enjoy my current job and the interaction I have with the owners. I enjoy visiting new places every tour - I prefer the smaller strips in beautiful places with their own "character" than flying into saturated O'Hare and JFK which I still hit every once and awhile.

Flying the XL/XLS would be great because it would give you the opportunity to fly into all types of challenging airports and get to know the system. I have heard it is a very nice flying aircraft - especially that XLS. Flying "bigger aircraft" should not be an issue for a C-5 pilot who has flown one of the biggest airplanes out there. The Airbus would be small for you just like the XLS. I agree that schedule (7/7 or reserve vs. traditional airline schedule) and type of flying (don't know your destinations until the day before or day of flying vs. set airline route structure) should be your primary considerations because pay is roughly the same over time.

Tough choice, but I would make that choice and then stick to it...

 

[fischman]

I just found that Netjets ad in the WSJ that Johnsonrod was referring to - it says:

• 3500 pilots
• 350 flight attendants
• 700 maintenance professionals
• 265 owner service representatives
• 70 schedulers
• 8 meteorologists
• 120 aircraft dispatchers
• 1,700 other professionals

That is a big operation. Not sure how many are related to Netjets USA vs. Netjets Europe vs. Netjets Middle East. Regardless, it is a big company and it is unionized - I have always personally seen that as a positive because you have rights and you are protected - as you know JetBlue pilots are not unionized. Some people hate unions but I am not one of those people (we can all have our own opinions about unions).

Having flown 747s for a 121 operator and now flying corporate, I really enjoy my current job and the interaction I have with the owners. I enjoy visiting new places every tour - I prefer the smaller strips in beautiful places with their own "character" than flying into saturated O'Hare and JFK which I still hit every once and awhile.

Flying the XL/XLS would be great because it would give you the opportunity to fly into all types of challenging airports and get to know the system. I have heard it is a very nice flying aircraft - especially that XLS. Flying "bigger aircraft" should not be an issue for a C-5 pilot who has flown one of the biggest airplanes out there. The Airbus would be small for you just like the XLS. I agree that schedule (7/7 or reserve vs. traditional airline schedule) and type of flying (don't know your destinations until the day before or day of flying vs. set airline route structure) should be your primary considerations because pay is roughly the same over time.

Tough choice, but I would make that choice and then stick to it...

FWIW, NJA currently only has about 2700 pilots.

 

[johnsonrod]

FWIW, NJA currently only has about 2700 pilots.

Total number probably includes NJI, NJE and NJME. Still a pretty big operation. How many pilots working at JetBlue?

For argument's sake, can someone at NJA give an example of how a reserve schedule can mirror a "typical" airline schedule? Just want to see how similar those types of schedules can be.

 

[dudemize]

How many pilots working at JetBlue?

I was told I would be around 1900 give or take a few.

 

[jonjuan]

NJ throws away so much money, it must not be a concern......I only hope that doesnt change.

You should know what they say about hope. Rick could care less as he'll depart the pattern in a couple of years, leave with his millions, and stick the pilots with the bill. Sounds eerily similar to DAL when Leo Mullin walked away with millions a few years ago. Better hope you currently have HBA, or not care, because those who don't will never see it.

 

[Diesel]

currently have HBA, or not care, because those who don't will never see it.

I don't believe that. Its contract negotiations.... and i can tell you this those that don't have HBA's will have them in the next contract. At least if my vote counts for something.

The next ceo can do anything he wants. The contract is already in place and the next contract is brewing.

 

[hydrarkt]

At least if my vote counts for something.

.

It doesn't!!!!

 

[Mooneymite]

FWIW, NJA currently only has about 2700 pilots.

Flying the XL/XLS would be great because it would give you the opportunity to fly into all types of challenging airports and get to know the system. I have heard it is a very nice flying aircraft - especially that XLS. Flying "bigger aircraft" should not be an issue for a C-5 pilot who has flown one of the biggest airplanes out there. The Airbus would be small for you just like the XLS. I agree that schedule (7/7 or reserve vs. traditional airline schedule) and type of flying (don't know your destinations until the day before or day of flying vs. set airline route structure) should be your primary considerations because pay is roughly the same over time.

...

2620 pilots on the April seniority list.

Everyone has their own idea about how an airplane should fly, but I think the XLS is the worst flying airplane I've ever been typed in. I like the trips, the average leg length and the crews, but the airplane is awful.

Everything about it is "rinky-dink"; the two position stabilizer is an abortion and the autoflight system is a joke. I'm sure there are people out there who love it. I do not.

 

[johnsonrod]

2620 pilots on the April seniority list.

Everyone has their own idea about how an airplane should fly, but I think the XLS is the worst flying airplane I've ever been typed in. I like the trips, the average leg length and the crews, but the airplane is awful.

Everything about it is "rinky-dink"; the two position stabilizer is an abortion and the autoflight system is a joke. I'm sure there are people out there who love it. I do not.

Is it an improvement vs. the regular XL? What "better" airplanes are you comparing it to? Are you suggesting that starting on the Ultra, Encore or Beechjunk would be better for a newhire?

If you really hate the XL/XLS, what aircraft type would you like to bid to next? Hawker 800XP-C? G200?

 

[RideandDrive]

You nailed it on the XL. Autopilot is terrible and the thing is most unpleasant to handfly.