Nja News

[FLYLOW22]

No, it was a serious question. I have heard that several JetBlue pilots have left for Netjets - although this is second-hand information.

Anyone leaving solely to work at jetBlue comeing from NetJets simply want to work for jetBlue or fly a larger airplane. I affectionately call this urge SJS (Shiney Jet Syndrome). WHatever floats your boat. I like pay and days off... Whatever makes a guy happy though.

Are you suggesting that pilots are leaving because they don't like the current domicile system?

Oh, I'd say it with ultimate conviction and confidence. If one looks at the attrition list, it is peppered with pilots with 1 yr of seniority or less (Domicile pilots). But hey, the company is saving money, right?? Out of every 50 leaving, a few retire for good (age), there is occasionally a death(unfortunately) and a few move to NJI (but those names remain on the Union seniority list). I think last list there were 4 exceptions, the rest were Domicile guys.

Weren't they aware of the domicile system when they signed on? I know people would like more flexibility with domiciles and more choices (like Citationshares or just home basing like before), but I would assume current Netjets pilots knew what they were getting into...

I won't vouge for what the company told these pilot sin the interview. The Union isn't allowed access to or participation in the Hiring process at NetJets. The company reaps what it sews.

In dudemize's case, he would be living in the NY area anyway (if he were to go to Jetblue) given his Teterboro domicile so it wouldn't matter.

For him, no. The choice is not about basing. For most, yes... it is.

 

[MILPILOT]

Can anyone shed some light on reserve in LAX on the X? Are the new guys being used, sitting? I understood that the first day of duty you're on the clock(lodging, per dium) even if not assigned a trip, is this correct? I've seen some conflicting info on this thread. I will be commuting to LAX...this means the hotel the night before duty is on me, what about after if still at domicile?

Also, those in LAX/VNY can you pass on the preferred hotels, shuttles, etc..

Thanks,

 

[dudemize]

I also recall Netjets pilots leaving for JetBlue when it was more popular a few years back (do you remember the super-long Netjets vs. Jetblue threads on Flightinfo? Dudemize - you should check them out even though they are a bit outdated).

I've checked out those threads, still some good info in them. The situation was a little different (individual was already a 5 yr NJA Capt). If I was already at NJA I wouldn't leave for JetBlue or vice-versa.

Assuming I live in base for either job, which will give me the most nights at home? I must say the flexibility to drop trips or pick up extra flying (day trips) would be pretty nice.

Tough call!

 

[skiandsurf]

Assuming I live in base for either job, which will give me the most nights at home? I must say the flexibility to drop trips or pick up extra flying (day trips) would be pretty nice.

Tough call!

7/7 schedule...
...6 night gone, 8 nights home (in a two week period).
...12 nights gone, 16 nightshome (in a 4 week period).

1 week of vacation...
...22 nights home
...6 nights gone.

Note...you get 2 weeks of vacation in the second year. Spread them out and you get 2 months of 3 weeks off.

There really is no dropping trips. I have been on line for about a year, and still no need for a sick call. being home for 7 days at a time, my family is usually ready for me to go back to work.

 

[skiandsurf]

.........

 

[dudemize]

7/7 schedule...
...6 night gone, 8 nights home (in a two week period).
...12 nights gone, 16 nightshome (in a 4 week period).

1 week of vacation...
...22 nights home
...6 nights gone.

Note...you get 2 weeks of vacation in the second year. Spread them out and you get 2 months of 3 weeks off.

There really is no dropping trips. I have been on line for about a year, and still no need for a sick call. being home for 7 days at a time, my family is usually ready for me to go back to work.

About twice a year I would have to drop a 7 day block for mil duty as well.

How does the sick call work? What happens if you call in the 1st 2 days of a tour? What about the middle of a tour?

 

[skiandsurf]

How does the sick call work? What happens if you call in the 1st 2 days of a tour? What about the middle of a tour?

I havent called in sick yet, but it is a "click in sick" method. Do not talk to anyone.

If you call in sick for day 1, you are off that week until you call in "well". They can use you right away, so dont call in well at 9pm, you might find yourself driving to the airport a few minutes later.

If you call in sick during a trip, I think they airline you home (if you are able to travel).

Someone who knows more, will be of more help.

 

[fischman]

calling in sick

You are correct. When you call the crew access number one of the options is for "Crew member interactive dnif" (DNIF= Duty Not Including Flying = Sick call).

When you DNIF at the beginning of a tour, you simply stay home and call in "well" when you are ready. Keep in mind, that when you call in well, the company assumes you are ready for immediate duty.

If you DNIF in mid-tour and request to go home, the company will send you home until you call in well.

If you decide you are too sick to travel, don't want to go home, or whatever, they will send you to the hotel. I usually prefer this option because I have 2 little ones at home and don't want to get them sick too.

NetJets really does this right. They leave you alone until you are well because they want you to be productive on your duty days. The best way to do that is give you rest.

Hope that helps.

 

[skiandsurf]

Something else to consider between JB and NJ.

Lets consider in 10 yrs both companies are still in business, and following the current contracts.

NJs 4, 3 week vacations.
JB, not sure but probably 4 vacation periods of 9-10 days, stretchable to 14 days.

I am thinking about "down the road, not tomorrow".

If the NJ job sucked so much, why do we have all of these "over 60 guy" still working......hint....easy retirement job....better than Walmart greeter.

To be honest with you, the only thing I miss from the airline world is the travel benefits. BUT the only reason I miss them, is because of ALL the 7 day off periods. If I was still at an airline, I would only be off for 3-5 days (no time to travel) and with the loads so heavy, wouldnt get on anyway.

 

[MILPILOT]

Can anyone shed some light on reserve in LAX on the X? Are the new guys being used, sitting? I understood that the first day of duty you're on the clock(lodging, per dium) even if not assigned a trip, is this correct? I've seen some conflicting info on this thread. I will be commuting to LAX...this means the hotel the night before duty is on me, what about after if still at domicile?

Also, those in LAX/VNY can you pass on the preferred hotels, shuttles, etc..

Thanks,

anyone?

 

[skiandsurf]

anyone?

Reserve is not like airline reserve.

I am not on the reserve schedule, but know of many that are. The pay is a little more,

You get a normal brief the day before your start day. You are paired up with either another reserve guy for the same period or maybe a 7/7 guy. It doesnt matter. You are not sitting in a crashpad waiting to be called out, like an airline reserve guy.

I too am LAX based (7/7). When I have a LAX overnight, they always pay for my hotel.

For hotel info......pm flyipilot on this board. He has something worked out with one of the hotels.....$70 on satudays, $250 during the week.

Also, I have heard of guys buying $1000 worth of tickets on SWA to be used whenever you want. I am not sure how many tickets you get for $1000. Either 10 or 20. ($100 or $50....must be 20 tickets).

 

[lodgepilot]

reserve

reserve or day 1 7/7 for that matter per diem starts when you
leave your gateway. you will be provided a room at your
gateway day 1, so you just need the room the night b4

for hotel first night try www.biddingfortravel.com
they have instructions for successful priceline bidding
a quick look a minute ago had crowne plaza $58 and marriott $60

 

[johnsonrod]

Can anyone shed some light on reserve in LAX on the X? Are the new guys being used, sitting? I understood that the first day of duty you're on the clock(lodging, per dium) even if not assigned a trip, is this correct? I've seen some conflicting info on this thread. I will be commuting to LAX...this means the hotel the night before duty is on me, what about after if still at domicile?

Also, those in LAX/VNY can you pass on the preferred hotels, shuttles, etc..

Thanks,

Sounds like the X is a very busy fleet when they are not in the shop being repaired. You'll get a good mix of short hops and transcons in the X - although the X appears to do more transcons than any other type in the fleet from what I hear (you'll do a lot of VNY-TEB and SNA-HPN/TEB and back flights). Given your background, I am sure you will appreciate the X's speed too.

A friend of mine joined Netjets on the X out of LAX awhile ago and he really enjoys the diverse flying. In his mind it certainly beats the heck out of flying RJs.

 

[j31flyer]

About twice a year I would have to drop a 7 day block for mil duty as well.

How does the sick call work? What happens if you call in the 1st 2 days of a tour? What about the middle of a tour?

If youre in the C-5, shouldnt your wife be used to you being gone? Just messing with you dude. I PM'd you and gave my 2 cents. I have been here over a year and looking down the road past the 5 yr point, this place is unbeatable. The airlines cant compare to it. I am relaxed when I go home and not pissed off at scheduling, the tkt agents, and whomever else thast makes our job difficult at the airlines.

I don't commute anymore and it's nice to have a pos space airline seat to get home from a tour. Like another guy said, you get home early enough and it's really like 5 days from home. I am on the reserve schedule and do not drop NJ days for mil trips anymore. It costs too much money when NJ takes the pay from you. You have more flexibility to do mil trips on the reserve schedule.

My vote is for NetJets, especially over JB. If your choice were between NJA and SWA or FEX, I could see the dilemma, but not over JB. NJ has a hell of a lot more to offer in the big picture and quality of life areas. Mama will be happier with your decision to go to NJ because you will be home more.

Good luck,
J31

 

[dudemize]

Man you guys make it tough for me to make a decision!

 

[skiandsurf]

Man you guys make it tough for me to make a decision!

Dont think about the types of plane you will be flying at both carriers, rather the type of flying. At JB, you will have a big "rubberband" on the tail of your plane always pulling back to home base. At NJs, you will be anywhere and everywhere.

Also, think about where both companies (and you) will be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs.

Vacation time.
401k.
Medical/Dental Insurance.

Upgrades at NJs has slowed drastically. Not sure about JB.

Most airlines pinch every penny till their fingers hurt, NJ throws away so much money, it must not be a concern......I only hope that doesnt change.

 

[On Your Six]

Netjets is the industry leader by a wide margin.

JetBlue is in the middle of a very competitive pack that is getting squeezed more and more by newcomers. Watch Mother Delta and CAL put more of a squeeze on JetBlue in the future. NY will be a major competitive battleground.

At the end of the day, I'd rather fly celebrities, sports figures and business tycoons (as long as they don't nag me too much) to interesting destinations (Aspen, Napa, Palm Springs, Martha's Vineyard, Jackson Hole, Hilton Head, Kahalui, etc.) than fly JLo's neighbors from the Bronx to Orlando and Nashville. But that's just me. Sure, the JetBlue guys will never load any bags - but they can't escape the clean-up duties (something both sets of pilots will have in common).

Add to that the ability to take 3-week vacations on 7/7 (one week of vacation between two normal weeks off during a month) if you take that schedule ultimately and that situation can't be beat in my opinion. Take a long term viewpoint.

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you choose.

 

[clueless]

Man you guys make it tough for me to make a decision!

You find yourself in a great (but agonizing) position. You have two good options, and you can probably be happy at both companies. One piece of advice I would give you is that once you make your decision, you must make it the right decision. That is, enjoy the good aspects of whichever place you end up, make the most of your opportunity, and don't second guess your choice.

I've done both jobs (not JB and NJ, but major airline and frax). Both have aspects that I like and dislike. I do not fly fractional any longer, so you know which side of the fence I ended up on.

My two cents:

I never liked the 7/7. Hated it at first, came to terms with it as time went on, was joyously happy to leave it behind. I can see that if you came from a 135 job on a 24/7 beeper 31 days a month with no hard days off, then the 7/7 would be nirvana....it's just to freakin' long to be away from home for me. (FWIW, the wife didn't care for it, either...and no, neither one of us was "ready" for me to leave for another tour after 7 days home. We love each other and enjoy spending time together, which is convenient when you're married to one another.)

I did like knowing my schedule months in advance...that is one part of the frax job I miss. However, I have tremendous flexibility currently to get the days off I need or want, so overall my QOL is light years better with respect to home time.

Had vacation last month and I only had to work 5 days...actually worked 7 to make a little extra $, and, really, even I didn't need 25 days off!

I did not commute for the frax job, and I do not commute for the airline. Commuting sux in general, but I really can't see commuting for a 7/7 frax job. No commuting is another one of the huge benefits of the frax job, and if you lose that aspect of the job, you will really never be home. (See "Those who quit NJ" thread for cautionary tales.)

The "variety" of flying is somewhat true, but for me a runway is a runway and a hotel is a hotel. I did fly to some cool places: Aspen, Eagle, St. Maarten, etc. But a huge amount of frax flying is TEB, HPN, PDK, PBI, MDW, SNA, etc. Your first time into Aspen is pretty cool...your fifth time can be just a pain in the butt.

At the end of the day for the frax, I often wondered if I had actually accomplished anything of real value. Sure, I had flown my pax safely to where they wanted to go, but taking a couple of guys and their oversized golf bags to Hilton Head for a $10K boys weekend just wasn't very satisfying.

At the end of the day now, after I have flown 500 or 600 people (regular Joes and Janes, that is) to their destinations, I feel much more as though I have contributed something to the greater good.

Did I take my own advice and make the frax choice the right choice? Yes, while I was there I did. I made a great effort to do my job well and to enjoy the good aspects of it while trying not to focus on the parts of it I didn't care for. I also kept my irons in the fire, and now have my dream job.

Sorry for the rambling post. I hope it is even a little helpful. Good luck with your choice. I hope you make the right decision!

 

[skiandsurf]

I've done both jobs (not JB and NJ, but major airline and frax).

Good info. Curious though, which airline and frax?

 

[johnsonrod]

Working for the wrong frax can contribute to a crap work environment and low morale (that is the case for any aviation job). If it offered 7/7 it could have been either FLOPS or Citationshares because both offer schedules similar to NJA's schedule. Flight Options has imploded over the last few years and I am sure working there could have contributed to a negative attitude. Many FLOPS pilots have left over the last few years as the situation has deteriorated.

From what I have seen, NJA pilots tend to be happier (excluding the domicile situation which will hopefully improve) and they appreciate their great pay/benefits and schedules relative to their peers. Not everyone likes 7/7, but at least the reserve schedule is an option at NJA. Did you see that NJA ad in the WSJ today? NJA has 3500 pilots (this number might include Netjets Europe), hundreds of airplanes, 500+ flight attendants, hundreds of dispatchers, etc. - it is not a small operation and instead it is bigger than many airlines out there...

I think you should focus on the type of flying you want to do and then go with it. If you care about multiple fleet types and a wide variety of flying, NJA might be the better choice (especially since the reserve schedule can compare to a "normal" airline schedule and won't require as many nights away from home as the 7/7). If you want a familiar routine with a more typical schedule and you don't care about variety ("an airport is an airport"), then JetBlue might be for you. Both choices are solid at the end of the day.

Good luck.