NJA announces 1000 applications for pilot positions

[CRAWDADDY]

That's great and all but how long for upgrade, i hear that captains there rarely move on to other jobs and basically never leave.

It's not for lack of desire. Some of the most senior could never be hired at a 121 company when they came.
Many of the rest learned that NJ isn't the best thing to have on your resume if you're ambitious.
If you're looking at the majors, a few years at a regional will get you there quicker than a decade or two here.

 

[realityman]

I can't judge what is justifiable or not. The company isn't very public about what what they have on these guys either, so I presume neither one of us knows everything. I would say that if you're going to call off to go hunting, don't post on a public Facebook page something to the effect of "sorry NetJets, I have better things to do" with a picture of yourself wearing camo and holding a rifle the day you call off sick.

Sure, many rules hadn't been enforced for years, but that doesn't make it ok either. I don't know if these were first offenses either.

There are the 3%ers, then there was one dooshbag. The only one I could truly say was a dbag in my 14 years with the company. He was the guy that caused his brothers / sisters to work harder nearly every single day he was on duty in addition to the few things I mentioned. I don't want to see anyone of you guys out of a job, but I was elated when he left.

Back to the original point many posts ago. Less than a dozen terminated is hardly a management campaign. I Don't know what tactics are being played, or why. If you're telling me that you believe there aren't a few that have the intent to truly hurt the company, you're lying to yourself.

How can you look at the number of firings from '03-'13, and the number fired in 2014 and NOT conclude it's a management campaign of fear and intimidation? The number of firings in the past year has exceeded the number of firings in the past DECADE! It's very easy information to look up. Heck, some of our own guys on our boards have even done the work for you, some even with graphs to illustrate the point. Talk to the stewards, the ones in the trenches with these guys, they'll explain, and what's worse, tell you about the line of pilots the company has in que right now who may be fired. The trend has literally skyrocketed, but you don't see anything sinister?

As for details, yes, I actually have some on a few of the terminated pilots. Once again, with some of them, the information isn't hard to acquire. For starters, if you call a steward and ask a little, they are more than happy to give you the details they're allowed to. For example, they will tell you if the hostages have multiple offenses they were disciplined for in their files. No, they won't tell you what it was for, but in almost all the cases it's a moot point because most of them hadn't received any previous discipline before being fired. In addition, some of the hostages made it known you could call or email them for details (well, at least their side of the story). That info was posted on our boards. Have you spoken directly to any of them? It's very enlightening. The ones who can be contacted are very forthcoming about their transgressions. They don't try to hide that they screwed up. They will also confirm what the stewards said about not having other discipline in their files. I think if you take the time to do a little research you'll discover that in most cases discipline was deserved, but being fired was way beyond what was needed to correct the bad behaviour.

Going back to being sick. I tend to agree with you that if you call in sick it's not a good idea to post pictures of yourself on social media having a good time during a sick day. Bad form and likely to cause you some problems with your employer. That being said, there are plenty of illnesses that would keep me out of the flight deck, but not preclude me from participating in other activities. For example, an inner ear infection would prevent me from flying, but I could go out and compete in a marathon, or take the family to an amusement park, or go hunting. Doing what you described is not necessarily evidence that a wrong was committed. A comprehensive investigation would easily reveal what was really going on. Once again, take the time to talk to the stewards and find out about the company's "comprehensive investigations". You may be shocked to learn what evidence the company is choosing to ignore and proceed with the firings.

If, after you've done the research I've suggested, you can come back here and still tell me you don't think it's a management campaign of intimidation and fear, then maybe your perspective will seem more reasonable.

By the way, I enjoy your posts and ability to discuss without insults and name calling. And I don't think your perspective is necessarily wrong. I just think you haven't learned enough about the firings to have a fully formed perspective.

 

[Some guy]

I ask the questions I ask so I can see perspective from a different point of view. Your latest post helps me understand (a little) the irritation that is out there. From my point of view, there have been a select few over the years that have caused many problems. These problems have been largely ignored until the last year. If the company is terminating without first trying discipline, then yes there is a problem.

When a new temp ACP has been at the desk for a few weeks, I'll ask him what he thinks. I always get the same response..."I had no idea". They see those of us at the center of the operation do not treat anyone on the road any different from anyone else. They see some of the ridiculousness that we've been seeing for years and they're stunned. Again, it's a small number that cause the problems and maybe (hopefully) you haven't experienced it. These are the guys that turn your 10 hour day into 14 because you're their recovery.

Those of us sitting at the core of the operation can scroll through IJet and usually pinpoint where we're going to have problems based solely on the names assigned to a tail. That's a problem. For the other 97% who bust their asses every day, thank you. We know you're tired.

SG

 

[ghostrider64]

Pretty funny quoting a "pilot" that doesn't exist as a "pilot" at netjets.

Kind of like Carmen Sandiego.... Where in the world is Brian Gallagher?

 

[Some guy]

Pretty funny quoting a "pilot" that doesn't exist as a "pilot" at netjets.

Kind of like Carmen Sandiego.... Where in the world is Brian Gallagher?

He was there once. What ever the significance was of him being brought up went over my head.

SG

 

[T-1GUY]

So just so I'm following you correctly, the handful of pilots that are "problem children" are the reason that pilots at Netjets are working fourteen hour days? 2700 pilots on the payroll what is three percent? Ok, my math says 81 pilots. So we should expect 81 pilots to be fired with no discipline? 81 troublemakers are the SOLE reason the other 2,619 pilots are working fourteen hour days?? It wouldn't have anything to do with managements bad decisions like: Whipping the horse till it bleeds? (125% out of your workforce at all times), recalling too late?, hiring too late,creating a work environment where over 800 pilots put their applications out? Not seeing the macro picture of a shortage of well qualified pilots and hiring demand in the industry? I could go on all day. Its like shooting ducks in a barrel

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Netjets: It's where aviation careers come to die.

 

[pilotyip]

Netjets: It's where aviation careers come to die.

as opposed to others places you can go where aviation careers die, like TransAmerican, Zantop, Drummon Island Air, TransContinental, Fortune 500 Corp jobs, I could go on but there are more of these than there are places where aviation careers don't die.

 

[realityman]

as opposed to others places you can go where aviation careers die, like TransAmerican, Zantop, Drummon Island Air, TransContinental, Fortune 500 Corp jobs, I could go on but there are more of these than there are places where aviation careers don't die.

Sounds like the aviation industry needs more, and better, unions. ;-)

 

[pilotyip]

Sounds like the aviation industry needs more, and better, unions. ;-)

Right, two those places were union, one took dues out of my last check.

 

[realityman]

Man, you just have a comeback for everything don't ya.

Okay, try reading what's written. I know a couple of those places already have unions. That's why I tried to cover all the bases by saying, "....more, AND BETTER, unions.".

 

[pilotyip]

Man, you just have a comeback for everything don't ya.

Okay, try reading what's written. I know a couple of those places already have unions. That's why I tried to cover all the bases by saying, "....more, AND BETTER, unions.".

only speaking in the reality I have experienced man, it is like reality man. Are you saying not all unions are BETTER unions?

 

[BentOver]

Those all seem like really great companies

 

[ghostrider64]

I've always enjoyed the ridiculousness of pilots buying into managements claims that the reason you are working harder and longer, is due to a few outliers. That's a complete fabrication. The reality is you are working longer and harder because we are busier than ever, bookings through the roof, with too few pilots and planes on the property.

One who feels they are working too hard, perhaps are in fact doing so. Perhaps that crew should self evaluate if they are themselves too tired to complete their late assignment. Perhaps they might find they too are fatigued and should pull the plug.

I LOVE doing recoveries, because I know that a CREW actually did the PROFESSIONAL thing and pulled the plug, rather than pushed a maintenance issue, or their own personal limits, which could have resulted in a fatality. Or perhaps I'll go out on a limb, and say SCHEDULING really was the cause of the "recovery" in the first place. Every single day they have major errors, that are FIXED by crews.

For some reason those TACP, ACP and CP, never seem to say, "we have schedulers" that are the problem. Maybe you should ask yourself why that is? Maybe it's because they all went to the same school, and are infallible? As long as we have pilots "calling in" and LISTENING to ONE SIDE of a story, we'll continue to be led down the managements path of concession and firings. Pathetic.

 

[pilotyip]

Those all seem like really great companies

They were, great people, great airplanes, I didn't mention the other one that I did not work for like Ford, GM, Dana, Eastern, Pam am Braniff, Airborne, ATA, I could go on, but there lots of places that airline careers have died. NJ is not one of them.

 

[doh]

They were, great people, great airplanes, I didn't mention the other one that I did not work for like Ford, GM, Dana, Eastern, Pam am Braniff, Airborne, ATA, I could go on, but there lots of places that airline careers have died. NJ is not one of them.

I'm gonna agree with yip on this one. Careers don't die at NJ.

 

[G4dude]

I'm gonna agree with yip on this one. Careers don't die at NJ.

NJ was the best thing to happen to my career.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Nutjets is a career stop for the RJ F/Os who think they'll move on from there.

Agreed: NJA is where careers die.

 

[Some guy]

So just so I'm following you correctly, the handful of pilots that are "problem children" are the reason that pilots at Netjets are working fourteen hour days? 2700 pilots on the payroll what is three percent? Ok, my math says 81 pilots. So we should expect 81 pilots to be fired with no discipline? 81 troublemakers are the SOLE reason the other 2,619 pilots are working fourteen hour days?? It wouldn't have anything to do with managements bad decisions like: Whipping the horse till it bleeds? (125% out of your workforce at all times), recalling too late?, hiring too late,creating a work environment where over 800 pilots put their applications out? Not seeing the macro picture of a shortage of well qualified pilots and hiring demand in the industry? I could go on all day. Its like shooting ducks in a barrel

I think no matter what is said, you'll find a way to make it negative just to show you oppose anything I say. You do not work 7 straight 14 hour days. Do you have a few every rotation? Probably so. I never said those who don't like to work or have a vendetta against the company are the SOLE reasons you work a 14 hour day. If there are 40 pilots every rotation not wanting to fly, there are sure to be some of the good guys asked to cover extra trips. I'm beginning to wonder if you work for the company. You deny that these types exist. That or you're extremely naive although I think you're smarter than that. No they don't deserve to be fired. Contrary to your belief, the company just wants you all to do your job. That's it. It costs too much money and resources to terminate. Be one of the 3%ers and you're name becomes known fairly quick. I can't tell you if those who were let go were disciplined first. You may be told there was no discipline, but as far as I know the company doesn't publicise actions taken against employees.

There isn't a shortage of qualified pilots. Someone earlier said the majors have 10k apps on file. We have 1000 within a couple of weeks. You stated 800 of our pilots put their apps out and aren't getting hired. Where is this shortage?

I agree, the recalls and hiring were started way too late. It hurt you on the road the most, but those of us at the mothership also struggled. These decisions are made at the very top; not anyone you deal with through the normal course of business.

SG

 

[CRAWDADDY]

There isn't a shortage of qualified pilots. Someone earlier said the majors have 10k apps on file. We have 1000 within a couple of weeks. You stated 800 of our pilots put their apps out and aren't getting hired. Where is this shortage?


SG

Unfortunately, it will be a long time before the majors start giving serious consideration to pilots at NJ. But, you'll never get hired unless you apply